3rd FAC: PNS Himmat Commissioning Ceremony

[Penguin]

the range is much more than that, the chinese local variant has a range of ~400km since this is a pakistani version i expect the same sort of range

C602 is the export version of the YJ-62, claimed to have a range of 280 km, a 300 kg semi-armour-piercing warhead, and GPS guidance. The reduced range is in accordance with Missile Technology Control Regime restrictions.

IF this is a Pakistani version AND it has a range of 400km THEN it must be YJ-62A with a 210 kg (460 lb) warhead as it is YJ-62A and only YJ-62A that is credited with a range of up to 400 km.

Evident in comparing C602 and YJ62A is the trade-off between range and warhead weight!

210 kg of YJ-62A is still 27% more than 165 kg of the 120km C802 on Jalalat II, F22P and early Azmats, and also 11% more than the 190 kg of the 180km C802A on JF-17, but still only 70% of the warhead on C602. But range is 43% greater than C602, 122% greater than C802A and 233% greater than C802!

So, the question is what PN would favor: fat warhead or long range?

 

[syed_yusuf]

210 kg of war head and 400 km of range with quality eccm system, pin point accuracy added survivability is very potent in any conflict with anybody in Arabian sea

If only this large facm could have fl 3000n or tor m1 Chinese equivalent for danti air defence will add lots of muscle to it

Saar 4.5 of Israel has all of the above plus anti sub systems. I am not sure why azmat cannot have it. Specially with so much automation available now days.

 

[Blue Marlin]

C602 is the export version of the YJ-62, claimed to have a range of 280 km, a 300 kg semi-armour-piercing warhead, and GPS guidance. The reduced range is in accordance with Missile Technology Control Regime restrictions.

IF this is a Pakistani version AND it has a range of 400km THEN it must be YJ-62A with a 210 kg (460 lb) warhead as it is YJ-62A and only YJ-62A that is credited with a range of up to 400 km.

Evident in comparing C602 and YJ62A is the trade-off between range and warhead weight!

210 kg of YJ-62A is still 27% more than 165 kg of the 120km C802 on Jalalat II, F22P and early Azmats, and also 11% more than the 190 kg of the 180km C802A on JF-17, but still only 70% of the warhead on C602. But range is 43% greater than C602, 122% greater than C802A and 233% greater than C802!

So, the question is what PN would favor: fat warhead or long range?

well what would you favour? personally i dont need to sink a ship just turn it into a dead duck?

honestly look at the size of the missile its similar to the babur tomahawk and mdcn. so i wont be suprised it is has the 300kg warhead and the 400km range. wont be suprised if its longer than 400km, who knows?

 

[Penguin]

well what would you favour? personally i dont need to sink a ship just turn it into a dead duck?

honestly look at the size of the missile its similar to the babur tomahawk and mdcn. so i wont be suprised it is has the 300kg warhead and the 400km range. wont be suprised if its longer than 400km, who knows?

Nah, it's either or: you can have those kind of differences between versions within the same airframe without trading off. 210 kg is very close to Harpoon warhead. I would take range and dispense with a fat warhead (or have a mix, in case I run into a really hard target).

 

[Blue Marlin]

Nah, it's either or: you can have those kind of differences between versions within the same airframe without trading off. 210 kg is very close to Harpoon warhead. I would take range and dispense with a fat warhead (or have a mix, in case I run into a really hard target).

true, but now looking at the physical appearance there very similar but moving on from that, i too would take a longer range missile (as stated in my previous post) kinda lie the harpoon block 2er(or whatever it called) longer ranged and with a lighter more deadlier warhead.
but personally i have reservations over the true range.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

C602 is the export version of the YJ-62, claimed to have a range of 280 km, a 300 kg semi-armour-piercing warhead, and GPS guidance. The reduced range is in accordance with Missile Technology Control Regime restrictions.

IF this is a Pakistani version AND it has a range of 400km THEN it must be YJ-62A with a 210 kg (460 lb) warhead as it is YJ-62A and only YJ-62A that is credited with a range of up to 400 km.

Evident in comparing C602 and YJ62A is the trade-off between range and warhead weight!

210 kg of YJ-62A is still 27% more than 165 kg of the 120km C802 on Jalalat II, F22P and early Azmats, and also 11% more than the 190 kg of the 180km C802A on JF-17, but still only 70% of the warhead on C602. But range is 43% greater than C602, 122% greater than C802A and 233% greater than C802!

So, the question is what PN would favor: fat warhead or long range?

I have a sideways theory. While it doesn't negate the possibility (if not probability) of the YJ-62/YJ-62A, I think the larger canisters are meant for the Babur LACM and a future supersonic cruising AShM. In regards to the Babur, the sole function would be land attack, e.g. sending small (ostensibly low-RCS and fast) ships close enough to hit some coastal targets (e.g. naval bases, dockyards, radar sites, etc). However, the supersonic AShM would bring a difficult to intercept anti-ship element, especially in anti-access and area-denial scenarios. At first glance a long-range AShM would make sense, but there is the general question of how one would guide it with the FAC(M)'s small radars. Some off-board sensor assistance would be necessary, but I guess we'd be looking at AEW&C to successfully pull-off 400+ km at the moment.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

the range is much more than that, the chinese local variant has a range of ~400km since this is a pakistani version i expect the same sort of range

The area that was under warning by Pakistan navy during Zarb missile test was 300 km

So i am not expecting current version range more than 300km ...

Maybe in future Range will be increased

 

[Penguin]

true, but now looking at the physical appearance there very similar but moving on from that, i too would take a longer range missile (as stated in my previous post) kinda lie the harpoon block 2er(or whatever it called) longer ranged and with a lighter more deadlier warhead.
but personally i have reservations over the true range.

lighter but “more lethal” warhead.
Means either different explosives used or different warhead design or combination of both.

In the case of C602, I think it is more a case of 'well, since we took out fuel, we've leftover space, let's pack in some more explosive' .

I have a sideways theory. While it doesn't negate the possibility (if not probability) of the YJ-62/YJ-62A, I think the larger canisters are meant for the Babur LACM and a future supersonic cruising AShM. In regards to the Babur, the sole function would be land attack, e.g. sending small (ostensibly low-RCS and fast) ships close enough to hit some coastal targets (e.g. naval bases, dockyards, radar sites, etc). However, the supersonic AShM would bring a difficult to intercept anti-ship element, especially in anti-access and area-denial scenarios. At first glance a long-range AShM would make sense, but there is the general question of how one would guide it with the FAC(M)'s small radars. Some off-board sensor assistance would be necessary, but I guess we'd be looking at AEW&C to successfully pull-off 400+ km at the moment.

You don't need surface ship radar to 'guide' this kind of missile, as it is not semi-active radar homing. All you need it an initial target plot and - given datalink - perhap a midcourse update. You can use ESM to establish initial target location, which is generally capable of detecting targets well beyond radar range. Given earth curvature, radar horizon is limited any way. A ship's helicopter (F22P) can then assist in over the horizon targeting. Other assets would be MPAs (Orions, ATR-72) and flying other elint/sigint assets (Hawker-800). All this besides AEWC aircraft. Possibly even information from submarines could be used.

Land attack is best left to submarines anyway.

Flight distance Hyderabad Pakistan to Ahmadabad, India is 480km. So, anything farther south would imply moving from out under PAF protective unbrella, for which these ships are not armed well enough to survive. And reach would be limited.

 

[Blue Marlin]

The area that was under warning by Pakistan navy during Zarb missile test was 300 km

So i am not expecting current version range more than 300km ...

Maybe in future Range will be increased

do missiles travel in straight lines ?

 

[Hassan Guy]

I read the article on quwa, I don't see how pushing the azmat to a corvette is a bad idea.

The hull could be redesigned to be stealthier and taller. Maybe that could allow for more powerful radars and sensors.

Get a better engine for more speed and range.

Umkohonto is better than the fl-300N?

If the missiles in the back use VLS instead can that open space for a light helicopter like the Z-9ec in the back?

 

[syed_yusuf]

This is Azmat class with different AShM, yes.



Here we go:

So many bellies, why our navy is not fit?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I read the article on quwa, I don't see how pushing the azmat to a corvette is a bad idea.

The hull could be redesigned to be stealthier and taller. Maybe that could allow for more powerful radars and sensors.

Get a better engine for more speed and range.

Umkohonto is better than the fl-300N?

If the missiles in the back use VLS instead can that open space for a light helicopter like the Z-9ec in the back?

Thanks for reading. The point of the statement I made was that if the Azmat FAC grows into a small corvette, then the PN should stop seeing it as a FAC. Let the Azmat FAC grow into a small corvette - i.e. a multi-role ship that is slower and less stealthy. And for the FAC role, acquire a high-speed ship with low-RCS with a clear focus on firing AShM for anti-access and area denial roles.