27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[maverick1977]

This news of SU down will leak out one day or the other by their down pilots, or by ground crew... it’s not possible to keep it hidden for long ..

 

[HawkEye27]

What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?

It must have resurfaced after a while but It never did.

 

[The Accountant]

What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?

The fog is war over now ... we must have confirmation from human intel by now ...

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

ely. Serious offense.

How will USA know? We did allow China to investigate heli wreckage after OBL raid

 

[Bratva]

It must have resurfaced after a while but It never did.

Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?

 

[HawkEye27]

Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?

But we fired a missile whereas WG CDR Abhinandan simply farted

 

[The Accountant]

Indians are claiming the same thing. Aren't they ?

Yes but in case of india no missike was fired ... furthermore we had theater level air superiority so we had radar information from various sources of the complete area whereas Indian aircraft radars were jammed ... mirrages were jammed completely whereas mki and bison left

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?

two parachute video belongs to Su-30 kill.

 

[airomerix]

What if the AMRAAM hit the chaff cloud and SU-30 blip that disappeared from radar was SU-30 diving into low level flight and EW ?

Good question.

Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.

There is a concept called 'Kill Validity". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.

However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.

What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.

Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)

The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs.

Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.

Now the final thing.

The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow.

@MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!

@Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor

 

[Telescopic Sight]

Good question...... Thanks!

Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16

So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.

Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.

Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.

 

[Point 5310]

The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.

BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Literally every word you have written is based on the IAF statement of shooting down an F16

So you are inadvertently agreeing with the IAF and saying that their method of proving an F-16 shoot down is absolutely valid and reasonable.

Additionally, the AMRAAMS fired at the Sukhois were to keep them at bay , and away from any PAF jets. This is a typical use of missiles, akin to covering fire in the infantry. This is not my original thought, I actually read an USAF pilots article about Feb 27th events. I'll try to find the link.

Think about it. This is the 2nd illogical post of yours that I am replying to, only because you seem capable of far better reasoning.

Well in your case, all R77s of that downed Mig 21 were recovered, intact, and paraded on TV thus completely debunking of your hilarious claim of F16 shooting. Moreover Americans have also said that all of Pakistani f16s are in tact. End of story as far as Indian claim of F16 is concerned. Moving forward, dont drag f 16 further in your posts. How Su30 was butchered, let's talk about it.. Even I myself want better proofs from our side. You guys even don't have balls to question your incompetant airforce at first place.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

Well in your case, all R77s of that downed Mig 21 were recovered, intact, and paraded on TV thus completely debunking of your hilarious claim of F16 shooting. Moreover Americans have also said that all of Pakistani f16s are in tact. End of story as far as Indian claim of F16 is concerned. Moving forward, dont drag f 16 further in your posts. How Su30 was butchered, let's talk about it.. Even I myself want better proofs from our side. You guys even don't have balls to question your incompetant airforce at first place.

Firstly , I hope you enjoyed giving testicular examinations to every Indian / American member in this forum, since you know who is endowed with what !!

Secondly, each of your statements is not correct. " Intact missiles, Americans have said, Su 30 was lost....." etc.etc.

Google is your friend . I can't spoon feed children who are unable to speak politely or logically. Please study aeromix 's posts for guidance.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Firstly , I hope you enjoyed giving testicular examinations to every Indian / American member in this forum, since you know who is endowed with what !!

Secondly, each of your statements is not correct. " Intact missiles, Americans have said, Su 30 was lost....." etc.etc.

Google is your friend . I can't spoon feed children who are unable to speak politely or logically. Please study aeromix 's posts for guidance.

I am using cell phone.. Can't see your nationality... Anyways all I meant was, ispr displayed all r77 bvr missiles in a press conference which were recovered from Indian mig so there is no question of Abhinandan downing a Pakistani f16. Thanks

 

[Cuirassier]

The real hero of that day was the superior Elta 8222WB.
IAF Su-30MKI exercises with RSAF F-16C showed that combination of El8222WB with chaff will absolutely decimate Amraams.
Infact the sheer might of jamming carried out by EL8222WB causes many missiles to go completely haywire.

BTW the warhead of AMRAAM was found intact but was defused by army units on site as it was considered to dangerous to be brought to press conference.

Several AMRAAMs? Only 2 fired, 1 hit one didn't. Greater hero would be the distance (considering the engagement was from outside of the missile's NEZ).