27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[CriticalThought]

Good question.

Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.

There is a concept called 'Kill Validity". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.

However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.

What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.

Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)

The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs.

Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.

Now the final thing.

The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow.

@MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!

@Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor

@gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sidacca]

Diffused .. really ? Hahaha its a mssile not a cluster bomb that needs diffusion and since when army units gets training on handling air to air missile or for that matter any bomb disposal unit?

We didn't defuse thier four but they did... Lolz

 

[Arsalan 345]

two parachute video belongs to Su-30 kill.

The best thing is to check every video related to this dogfight send check the color of parachutes while zoom in the image.we should do further research if we want to know the truth.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Which post exactly? I don't think I edited any post. :/

And yes the parade of second pilot is the ultimate thing. But God knows what's up with guys at GHQ.

We don't have the second pilot

Good question.

Lets first understand how an AMRAAM behaves and what are the factors which enable us to determine the Su 30 kill.

There is a concept called 'Kill Validity". Even in flight S/L Hassan didn't know he has shot down a flanker for sure. Or the missile was a hit in other words. He was not certain. But, the air defense controllers confirmed it via the basic indicators such as range, speed, disappearance of the blip etc.

However the question arises. Can the AD guys be wrong? Yes they can be.

What happened next is; PAF's studied the ACMI and FDR data which reveal the actual speed of the AMRAAM at all stages, altitudes, entry and exit velocity and the g's acting on the missile throughout the flight. This is when something interesting came up.

Milliseconds before impact AMRAAM has a behavior of emitting 'cylindrical slugs'. Right before impact, these cylindrical slugs are disbanded and hit the source emitting the radar signals. You will have noticed holes in the aircrafts (similar to those shown in the movie behind enemy lines when F-18 is shot down by a radar guided SAM)

The ACMI and FDR data clearly show that slugs have disbanded and hit the intended target which was emitting the radar waves. Chaff is simply not powerful enough to misguide an AMRAAM to disband its slugs.

Furthermore, it has also been 'heard' the slugs had initially hit the forward section of the Su-30. Disintegrating it from the middle.

Now the final thing.

The claim that 4-5 AMRAAMs were fired is just absurd because. The pieces of AMRAAM shown at the press conference clearly depicts a detonated missile. AMRAAM does not detonate if it doesn't hit the intended target. Had AMRAAM crashed into a village or whatever their claim is. They would have found its warhead as well. In a bent form or whatever. Its not a pathaka which went bad after landing in India. Its $500,000 missile which has protocols to follow.

@MODS: Please tag/highlight this post after scrutiny since it answers a lot of questions. Thanks!

@Armchair @Oscar @The Accountant @Windjammer @Imran Khan @Hodor

Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?

 

[GriffinsRule]

A2A missile warheads are pretty small so they are easily defused (literallu blown up) by shaped charges.
Very easy to take out


The army eng unit which went to area was unaware of value of warhead and destroyed it with shaped explosive charges as soon as they stumbled on it.

Prove it

 

[Myth_buster_1]

We don't have the second pilot


Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?

mig21 was shot down by either aim9 or pl5 because aim120 does not use fragment warhead and mig21 tail was full of sharpnels

 

[SQ8]

@gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a379702.pdf

Read up.. good info either way

 

[airomerix]

mig21 was shot down by either aim9 or pl5 because aim120 does not use fragment warhead and mig21 tail was full of sharpnels

Both the jets were brought down by AMRAAMs.

And AMRAAM does use cylindrical slugs/fragment ruptures as mentioned in the report shared by Oscar as well.

We don't have the second pilot

Time will tell.

Do we have wreckage of AMRAAM which shot down Mig 21?

Absolutely.

 

[Falcon26]

Both the jets were brought down by AMRAAMs.

And AMRAAM does use cylindrical slugs/fragment ruptures as mentioned in the report shared by Oscar as well.



Time will tell.



Absolutely.

It will be fascinating to compare the AMRAAM which shot down Abhi and the one shown by the Indians.

 

[khanasifm]

The best thing is to check every video related to this dogfight send check the color of parachutes while zoom in the image.we should do further research if we want to know the truth.

3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off

 

[NA71]

3 chutes in total per folks on the ground making video but only one was near by the other were far off

The locals were calling them "Indians".... where were the other two pilots ...who captured them?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

One question I've had in my mind since this whole drama is why didn't abhinananananananadandandandan(such a mouthfull to try and pronounce) try something like Owen Wilson in Behind Enemy Lines???
Did he know he had better odds of going home if he just gave up????

 

[HAIDER]

@gambit we would be highly obliged if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

we have another rtrd pilot @Shabi1 in this forum, if i am not wrong.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

One question I've had in my mind since this whole drama is why didn't abhinananananananadandandandan(such a mouthfull to try and pronounce) try something like Owen Wilson in Behind Enemy Lines???
Did he know he had better odds of going home if he just gave up????

He surrendered like a goat.

The villagers were screaming HANDS UP from 1/4 of a mile away and he raised up his hand while he was p1ssing in his pants.
watch from 0:20 sec

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Them hindko swear words. Aaaaahhhh sooo good.

So how did locals know he was even there???

Were the villagers shooting or Army????

AMRAAM uses HE warhead and carries a


He surrendered like a goat.

The villagers were screaming HANDS UP from 1/4 of a mile away and he raised up his hand while he was p1ssing in his pants.
watch from 0:20 sec

Wese naarey takbeer Allahu Akbar me dehshat bahut hai.