27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[The Accountant]

In situation like that PAF pilots had to seek permission to shoot from sq. ldr. Rana who was waiting for permission from his boss and his boss was waiting for permission from......!
No doubt India have guardian angles, some where in the permission to shoot chain, which can be more advantageous to India than having technical info. on jF-17 radars.
There shall be a probe, why and who withheld the permission to shoot Indian jets... and culprits shall be brought to public.

Bro that must be the case of shooting other then in case of rules of engagement and other than in time of wars. In peace time scenario permission is not required of rules of engagement is applicable. Rules of engagement that I know of are :

Enemy is in our territory.
Shooting down the enemy will result in falling down the wreckage in our territory.
It is a hostile aircraft.

On 27th Feb we do had lot of targets in our range thanks to 100 kms plus range of our BVR but the aircraft were flying within enemy territory.

 

[kursed]

If i was a pilot, i will give a dam to the last moment instruction of guiding my missile to woods instead of ammunition dump.

There's, hence a difference, between a 'professional' soldier and a ragtag militia. =)

 

[BATMAN]

There's, hence a difference, between a 'professional' soldier and a ragtag militia. =)

Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.

As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.

 

[StormBreaker]

Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.

As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.

I respect with what you are saying.
You have a valid point,
BUT,
There is a reason that their are ranks in different organizations and the sole purposes is that the senior rank can control the juniors and command them, that is what organized the force and keeps its integrity and is the spine of a strong force.

Even though if an order is passed in such situation at last moment from a senior officer and the senior officer is secretly compromised, disagreeing to the order means disagreeing to that specific rank and post and it leaves a bad mark,
Enough to be considered an offence and punishable.

Sometimes, there are reasons, seniors know more than those who are doing the actual job, so no matter if for the time being something feels stupid or traitorous to the juniors, time will prove it right

 

[kursed]

Professional soldier will take his mission and carry it out according to the plan.
He shall be mature enough to understand that there are traitors in parliament, who will protect the strategic ally of Iran, at all costs. Such covert traitors, exercise their authority at moments that matters.

As well if pilot who is at mercy of Indian ground defense, decide not to divert his missile at last moment, doesn't make him rag tag. Actually he shall be suspicious of such last moment orders, when he already knows the mission name is operation retort, in reply to Indian attack on Pakistani school.

Yeh, that's not how a real life air force operates. This is not Top Gun, the movie. You're given a mission, with exact parameters in mind, with an exact political goal to achieve, without putting rest of the state at war, that it can ill-afford. And pilots and WSOs are supposed to fulfil that mission, without wondering about the 'whys'. This is the training.

The idea that it were 'civilians' alone that took the decision to engage targets, is also fiction. The entire top hierarchy incl Army, Naval and AF chiefs were part of all briefings - there's a reason PN had moved naval assets before this even happened, there's a reason Army was ready to respond the way it did, in post-Swift Retort scenario. It was a coordinated response by all three military-arms of Pakistan, not just the AF.

 

[MastanKhan]

In situation like that PAF pilots had to seek permission to shoot from sq. ldr. Rana who was waiting for permission from his boss and his boss was waiting for permission from......!
There shall be a probe, why and who withheld the permission to shoot Indian jets... and culprits shall be brought to public and let the public decide, what to do.
If i was a pilot, i will give a dam to the last moment instruction of guiding my missile to woods instead of ammunition dump.

Hi,

That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.

This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.

All this should have been planned ahead of time.

 

[PakFactor]

Hi,

That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.

This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.

All this should have been planned ahead of time.

I have to agree with you, we should have taken the Indian narrative go with it and retaliated with full force claiming innocent children were massacred. Once the damage was done to these Hindus then later after investigation come out with true story as nothing happened.

Do what the Israeli and US and using the children story built some sympathy right away.

 

[MastanKhan]

I have to agree with you, we should have taken the Indian narrative go with it and retaliated with full force claiming innocent children were massacred. Once the damage was done to these Hindus then later after investigation come out with true story as nothing happened.

Do what the Israeli and US and using the children story built some sympathy right away.

Hi,

It was so frigging simple to ride the indian version and blow them to smithereens---.

Pakistani public would have been easily riled up as well and massive amount of support and spirit built up---.

But as it shows---cowardice starts from the top and flows downward---.

Not all generals are cowards and not all of them are brave---be it the air force navy or the army---.

World over---public was saying that it was an " act of war " the crossing of border by the indian air force---and pakistani generals were saying " no it was not---nothing happened---".
That moment showed the cowardice of the generals in charge---.

 

[BATMAN]

Hi,

That is why I have stated---the deaths of '300' should have been played right to the hilt of the sword---.

This scenario should never have arisen---. The flight command in the air should have taken charge---. That was the grand moment of indecision---incompetence and cowardice---.

All this should have been planned ahead of time.

That was God given opportunity to get rid of Indian military for good and implement peace in region for good.
If Pakistan had pressed on for just one full day, situation of world geopolitics would be totally different.
One scenario, US would be packing from Afghanistan by now already.
Another scenario, Iran would have no more strategic ally to mate with, means even middle east would be peaceful. etc.

 

[StormBreaker]

That was God given opportunity to get rid of Indian military for good and implement peace in region for good.
If Pakistan had pressed on for just one full day, situation of world geopolitics would be totally different.
One scenario, US would be packing from Afghanistan by now already.
Another scenario, Iran would have no more strategic ally to mate with, means even middle east would be peaceful. etc.

You see, the last time you guys, including @MastanKhan , criticized PAF on this very same thread, next day they shot down 2 indian jets.
I say, @Haris Ali2140 @Mangus Ortus Novem @Starlord @seven0seven Let’s all start criticizing PAF on this magical thread, maybe tommorow morning we will see more IAF jets burning

 

[YeBeWarned]

You see, the last time you guys, including @MastanKhan , criticized PAF on this very same thread, next day they shot down 2 indian jets.
I say, @Haris Ali2140 @Mangus Ortus Novem @Starlord @seven0seven Let’s all start criticizing PAF on this magical thread, maybe tommorow morning we will see more IAF jets burning

Our initial response was emotional driven, you can expect such from us because we are not top Military strategists or someone like Mastan Khan who is top Military Adviser in Pentagon who used to threat Kiyani and Pasha .. Rest of the Non Pakistani members and their Opinion don't matter , now matter how much Pakistaniyat they show here, they will remain outsiders and dividers .

 

[The Accountant]

@mods this thread needs cleaning

 

[aliyusuf]

put @BATMAN into your ignore list bro, he is just troll and anti govt/IK opinions

Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.

But he blames IK govt baselessly, that IK govt is always responsible our all problems since our Independence

 

[StormBreaker]

Well bro, as long as he is not anti-Pakistan ... he is OK in my book. We should respect difference in opinion and political affiliations.

But he blames IK govt baselessly, that IK govt is always responsible our all problems since our Independence

Bro seven, it is ok to be angry, but, let us not forget, he is in the end a Pakistani and among us !!!

Ignoring him means belittling him and making him feel un important.

But that is bad as ethics are concerned !!!

Might be that he was frustrated at something when he replied me with garbage but it’s ok !!!

Some people need some time alone to deep read their minds, understand what they are, who they are, their purpose and correct their mistakes. He needs such a self therapy !!!

I despise iran due to the current government and how cleverly they are playing dual faced. And what’s more shittier is that they have a hijacked a particular group of people in Pakistan by playing the religion card, thus making our state fragile and prone to sectarian problems. I will never respect them for these MISTAKES they have made.

As for my support for Arabs, that’s purely out of my belief in Ummah which is practically non existent right now. They are right and they are VERY wrong at the same time. But these wrongs of Arabs, if not corrected will cost their future very badly. Watching fellow brothers committing stupid politics while Allah has blessed them with vast amount of wealth and oil, makes me sad for them and pity when politics is done wrongly. I wouldn’t even blame arabs for that but the fact that since their dominance in oil industry, they played short sightedly and fall into the trap set by USA. Now even if they want to redeem but they can’t coz they have to act for US else they will see a very bad economic downfall, loss of assets and all the hype since some decades will vanish to knowwhere.

No one is good or bad in my books, it is their unique actions that i judge independently be it a politician, a party, journalist or a country even China and Turkey and USA.

Every one has a good and a bad but IRAN currently in my books is JUST BAD and BAD