2*MIG 35 >> RAFALE/EFT

[jagjitnatt]

Do you think we just buy aircraft by studying official characteristics made by its manufacturer.
We evalute them under so called trials.(at jaisalmer,bangalore,leh trails were completed)
We can know the rcs of opponents aircraft during such trials.

We have no facility in India to measure rcs of an aircraft.

We can not calculate the rcs of an aircraft, we can only compare the rcs of one aircraft with another.

What are those reasons. I would like to know them as even i believe rcs of f22 cannot be similar to that of tennis ball as its manufacturers said. Is there any source?

LM never said its rcs is equivalent to a tennis ball, they say a bird. A bird is small, but it isn't 0.0001 sq meters from front. Its more like 0.5m x 0.1 m, that's 0.05 sq meters.

I am not saying that's the rcs of the Raptor, this is just an example.

The latter sentence may be true but there is such a thing called official rcs, calculated during testing and trails of aircraft. It is generally taken as rcs of front view of aircraft ie the rcs of aircraft when the aircraft is heading towards the target.

rcs isn't calculated during trials. It can only be compared by taking reference of another aircraft.

I think wikipedia is a credible source.

No, its not.

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

then didnt you see any thing like this citation needed

We can edit anything on Wikipedia. Unless there is a credible source to a statement on wikipedia, you can't trust it.

 

[tvsram1992]

We have no facility in India to measure rcs of an aircraft.

We can not calculate the rcs of an aircraft, we can only compare the rcs of one aircraft with another.

phalcon systems(What you say AWACS) can easily calculate rcs when aircrafts distance is known

LM never said its rcs is equivalent to a tennis ball, they say a bird. A bird is small, but it isn't 0.0001 sq meters from front. Its more like 0.5m x 0.1 m, that's 0.05 sq meters.

I am not saying that's the rcs of the Raptor, this is just an example.

Official info is:
Nov 2005: The U.S. Air Force, in it’s effort to get money to build more F-22s, has revealed just how “stealthy” the F-22 is. It’s RCS (Radar Cross Section) is the equivalent, for a radar, to a metal marble. The less stealthy (and much cheaper) F-35, is equal to a metal golf ball. The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117. Much older aircraft, like the B-52, have a huge RCS, which makes them very easy to spot on radar. But with a smaller RCS, it's more likely that the aircraft won't be detected at all.
source:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-4408.html

rcs isn't calculated during trials. It can only be compared by taking reference of another aircraft.

It can be if exact distance of the aircraft is known.




---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

We can edit anything on Wikipedia. Unless there is a credible source to a statement on wikipedia, you can't trust it.

Thats fine.

 

[jagjitnatt]

phalcon systems(What you say AWACS) can easily calculate rcs when aircrafts distance is known

No, it can not. Because outside a radar reflectivity test laboratory, the radio waves can bounce off everything around the aircraft and can give false rcs results.

Only a lab will give correct result.

Official info is:
Nov 2005: The U.S. Air Force, in it’s effort to get money to build more F-22s, has revealed just how “stealthy” the F-22 is. It’s RCS (Radar Cross Section) is the equivalent, for a radar, to a metal marble. The less stealthy (and much cheaper) F-35, is equal to a metal golf ball. The F-35 stealthiness is a bit better than the B-2 bomber, which, in turn, was twice as good as that on the even older F-117. Much older aircraft, like the B-52, have a huge RCS, which makes them very easy to spot on radar. But with a smaller RCS, it's more likely that the aircraft won't be detected at all.
source:
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-4408.html

As I said earlier, all info about rcs is from other blogs, and forums. This news is like no other. There is no official info about rcs. There is no source of this info. A forum member is saying its official, but that doesn't make it official.

RCS has never been revealed for the operating fighters, it is only revealed when the aircraft is retired or going to retire.

 

[tvsram1992]

No, it can not. Because outside a radar reflectivity test laboratory, the radio waves can bounce off everything around the aircraft and can give false rcs results.

Only a lab will give correct result.

No you are underestimating awacs.
It can work as a perfect laboratory.
Even ground radars/labs well built cannot decide exact rcs if the distance of aircraft is unkwown.
Exact distance and angle of orientation of aircraft wrt to radar frame is the key factor to determine rcs.
More over the aircraft should approch awacs if the exact rcs is to be known.

 

[IND151]

enjoy this link. dont forget to drop thanks to spark.

Bulgarian Mig 29's pilot talks about going against USAF F-16 Block 50

 

[jagjitnatt]

No you are underestimating awacs.
It can work as a perfect laboratory.
Even ground radars/labs well built cannot decide exact rcs if the distance of aircraft is unkwown.
Exact distance and angle of orientation of aircraft wrt to radar frame is the key factor to determine rcs.
More over the aircraft should approch awacs if the exact rcs is to be known.

Actually no. You just can not calculate rcs in open environment. The radio waves will bounce off the aircraft, and then the surroundings, and come back to the radar. No one uses an AWACS to calculate rcs. An AWACS can only compare the rcs of two aircraft, by measuring the distance at which it is detected.

An rcs testing laboratory is something like this. Look at how the surroundings are specially designed to absorb any radio wave.

There are other ways which are not that accurate and even for them there are special infrastructure, for eg:

 

[tvsram1992]

Actually no. You just can not calculate rcs in open environment. The radio waves will bounce off the aircraft, and then the surroundings, and come back to the radar. No one uses an AWACS to calculate rcs. An AWACS can only compare the rcs of two aircraft, by measuring the distance at which it is detected.

An rcs testing laboratory is something like this. Look at how the surroundings are specially designed to absorb any radio wave.

There are other ways which are not that accurate and even for them there are special infrastructure, for eg:

Oh
all the time you are trying to speak about accurate rcs measurement
Remember if rcs of plane x is found to be 'B' by awacs and in original laboratory it is found to be 'A'.
Now coming to the scenario of war we will use awacs/mini awacs to know(not calculating) rcs of plane x then it will be 'B'. So we can judge the nature of aircraft......
But what we got in lab test is 'A' and practically rcs is 'B'.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Oh
all the time you are trying to speak about accurate rcs measurement
Remember if rcs of plane x is found to be 'B' by awacs and in original laboratory it is found to be 'A'.
Now coming to the scenario of war we will use awacs/mini awacs to know(not calculating) rcs of plane x then it will be 'B'. So we can judge the nature of aircraft......
But what we got in lab test is 'A' and practically rcs is 'B'.

Nope dear. In real environment, if you calculate the rcs 10 times, you will get 10 different results, whereas in the laboratory, the results are accurate.

You actually don't understand how radio waves propagate, and how radars work. RCS according to you can be calculated by a formula by knowing the distance. This is a false notion. RCS can not be calculated by a formula.

There are ways to find it out using the formula, but they are so complex that, it is impossible to find the rcs of an aircraft accurately, and the resources spent are HUGE.

And for the last time, RCS CAN NOT BE CALCULATED USING AN AWACS.

I don't wanna drag the same discussion, I've already explained the same thing 3-4 times. I'd recommend you to study it in detail, and try to calculate rcs of something yourself, you'll know what I am talking about then.

 

[below_freezing]

Why bother? Just import J-20 when we've developed our 6th gen plane, problem solved, 1 J-20 can probably take on the 2 Migs, RAFALE and EF combined.

 

[jha]

1 J-20 can probably take on the 2 Migs, RAFALE and EF combined.

Yup..PROBABALY..That means anything is possible..

 

[below_freezing]

Yup..PROBABALY..That means anything is possible..

Well, apparently if you believe the americans 1 F-22 can kill 100 F-15s, so 1:4 is quite realistic.

 

[tvsram1992]

Why bother? Just import J-20 when we've developed our 6th gen plane, problem solved, 1 J-20 can probably take on the 2 Migs, RAFALE and EF combined.

And our pakfa can take down 2 j20's,10 Jf-17,5 j10's and all of your illegally made russian planes.

 

[tvsram1992]

Well, apparently if you believe the americans 1 F-22 can kill 100 F-15s, so 1:4 is quite realistic.

Can f22 carry 100 bvr a2a missiles?
Dont say it will use gun or any rockets.
F22 can be seen from a distance of 10-15 kms clearly even from a traditional aircraft. So even 1 f15 is enough to tackle f22 at dog fight, though f22 is superior to f15.
Dont worry Eurofighter can beat j20 very easily.

 

[tvsram1992]

For $11 million, we get 285 Mig35's , imagine 285 migs ruling our neighbours skies.
Compare this with equivalent 86 Eurofighters .
Now you can feel the real difference of my point
2*MIG 35 >> RAFALE/EFT

 

[luckyyy]

For $11 million, we get 285 Mig35's , imagine 285 migs ruling our neighbours skies.
Compare this with equivalent 86 Eurofighters .
Now you can feel the real difference of my point
2*MIG 35 >> RAFALE/EFT

mig-35 is cheap and leathal , but there are few drowbacks with it , which i suppose the russians has rectified over the years..
1) man-hour maintanence required per flying hour
2) break intervel required after certain flying hours

it's a known fect that mig-29 can only take to sky once in 24 hour while F-16/18 can take three sourte in a day...