111 BRIGADE

[batmannow]

If you honestly think that the military will save Pakistan, you need to get a reality check. You're so naive that you tend to forget that the only reason why we're even in this current mess is directly because of the military's coups. While India has progressed and has nearly become a regional hegemony, Pakistan has regressed because of all the conflicts that our dear military leaders have gotten us in. The political parties in Pakistan are corrupt, but time will clean them of that. The democratic system in Pakistan needs time to mature, and that will only happen if the military continues it's stance of staying out of civil politics. With your logic, all the great powers of the world that follow democracy should have been broken and destroyed by now, but we have the opposite of that.


No, our enemies are finally backing off. Pakistan is on a path to recovery, and it's rivals and enemies can no longer keep her under their thumb. Even the Saudis are learning to respect Pakistan.

wow great, democracy india the champ , living over the economic moon?
what about china, compare india with china?
why to try & fool us, with this damocrazy crap?

 

[VCheng]

No, they're opinions based on personal observations, and opinions don't need evidence. I don't think you even understand what the word fallacy implies. I've noticed you just like to argue for the sake of arguing, instead of making a point.

Okay, let's try this again:

No, our enemies are finally backing off.
And yet there is no evidence that India or Afghanistan, or the favorite bogeyman USA have changed any of their policies towards Pakistan.

Pakistan is on a path to recovery,
Which recovery is this you speak of? Economic? Loadshedding? Law and Order? Education? Health?

and it's rivals and enemies can no longer keep her under their thumb.
Thumb? Try big military boots and they are crushing.

Even the Saudis are learning to respect Pakistan.
How so? They still think of Pakistan as a charity case, may be a favorite charity case, but a charity case nonetheless.

No Sir, all of your opinions have no basis in fact or evidence. These are mere false hopes and hollow claims pretending to be an opinion of sorts. You are entitled to hold those views, of course.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Okay, let's try this again:

No, our enemies are finally backing off.
And yet there is no evidence that India or Afghanistan, or the favorite bogeyman USA have changed any of their policies towards Pakistan.

Pakistan is on a path to recovery,
Which recovery is this you speak of? Economic? Loadshedding? Law and Order? Education? Health?

and it's rivals and enemies can no longer keep her under their thumb.
Thumb? Try big military boots and they are crushing.

Even the Saudis are learning to respect Pakistan.
How so? They still think of Pakistan as a charity case, may be a favorite charity case, but a charity case nonetheless.

No Sir, all of your opinions have no basis in fact or evidence. These are mere false hopes and hollow claims pretending to be an opinion of sorts. You are entitled to hold those views, of course.

I concur on all points except #4. Recently there has been a realization that Pakistan is NOT all that useless after all.
Details unfortunately are not something I can divulge at this point in time.

Best Regards

 

[VCheng]

I concur on all points except #4. Recently there has been a realization that Pakistan is NOT all that useless after all.
Details unfortunately are not something I can divulge at this point in time.

Best Regards

Being regarded as "useful" is a long, long, long ways away from "respect" as was claimed.

 

[That Guy]

wow great, democracy india the champ , living over the economic moon?
what about china, compare india with china?
why to try & fool us, with this damocrazy crap?

China is on a different level, their goals are global, while India's goal is regional. The comparison would be stupid to make.

Your level of logical thinking is poor.

Okay, let's try this again:

No, our enemies are finally backing off.
And yet there is no evidence that India or Afghanistan, or the favorite bogeyman USA have changed any of their policies towards Pakistan.

Pakistan is on a path to recovery,
Which recovery is this you speak of? Economic? Loadshedding? Law and Order? Education? Health?

and it's rivals and enemies can no longer keep her under their thumb.
Thumb? Try big military boots and they are crushing.

Even the Saudis are learning to respect Pakistan.
How so? They still think of Pakistan as a charity case, may be a favorite charity case, but a charity case nonetheless.

No Sir, all of your opinions have no basis in fact or evidence. These are mere false hopes and hollow claims pretending to be an opinion of sorts. You are entitled to hold those views, of course.

Except you're completely wrong, and everything you've said is also completely opinion based. Don't try to pass that off as fact.

First, neither Afghanistan nor the US are Pakistan's enemies, that's just your wishful thinking, so your entire argument stops right there. And what can India do to Pakistan now? Nothing. If this was 3-5 years ago, I would agree, but today's reality is different.

Second, Pakistan is on an economic and educational path of recovery, that's fact. Most major economic organizations agree with this, including the IMF, ADB and WB.

What big military boots? If anything the only military capable of taking on Pakistan for military superiority in the region is India, and they're finding it difficult, especially since Pakistan has Chinese help.

The Saudis have recently found out that they can't buy Pakistani loyalty anymore, considering the Nawaz has had to do damage control in Pakistan from the so called "financial gift" from the Saudis. The Opposition no longer trust the Saudis to allow the GoP to make any deals with KSA without extreme scrutiny. Also, Pakistan is far from a charity case for the Saudis. the Pak army has unfortunately always been considered KSA's unofficial military force, and the so called "aid" is nothing more than keeping Pakistan happy and loyal.

No on in the international community does anything out of sheer charity.

Again, you've proven nothing.

 

[VCheng]

...........
Except you're completely wrong, and everything you've said is also completely opinion based. Don't try to pass that off as fact.

First, neither Afghanistan nor the US are Pakistan's enemies, that's just your wishful thinking, so your entire argument stops right there. And what can India do to Pakistan now? Nothing. If this was 3-5 years ago, I would agree, but today's reality is different.

Second, Pakistan is on an economic and educational path of recovery, that's fact. Most major economic organizations agree with this, including the IMF, ADB and WB.

What big military boots? If anything the only military capable of taking on Pakistan for military superiority in the region is India, and they're finding it difficult, especially since Pakistan has both Chinese help.

The Saudis have recently found out that they can't buy Pakistani loyalty anymore, considering the Nawaz has had to do damage control in Pakistan from the so called "financial gift" from the Saudis. The Opposition no longer trust the Saudis to allow the GoP to make any deals with KSA without extreme scrutiny. Also, Pakistan is far from a charity case for the Saudis. the Pak army has unfortunately always been considered KSA's unofficial military force, and the so called "aid" is nothing more than keeping Pakistan happy and loyal.

No on in the international community does anything out of sheer charity.

Again, you've proven nothing.

And I do not need to prove anything either. Events will prove me right anyway.


Pakistan's enemies, real or perceived, have not changed any policies, nor are they likely to do so.
Pakistan's recovery is a mirage, born of short term jugglery that will be exposed soon enough.
The boots I refer to belong to Pakistan's own military.
And Saudis will be Saudis. (Renting a naukar is renting a naukar.)

Q.E.D.

 

[That Guy]

And I do not need to prove anything either. Events will prove me right anyway.


Pakistan's enemies, real or perceived, have not changed any policies, nor are they likely to do so.
Pakistan's recovery is a mirage, born of short term jugglery that will be exposed soon enough.
The boots I refer to belong to Pakistan's own military.
And Saudis will be Saudis.

Q.E.D.

So, in the end, all it comes down to is time. With the IMF overseeing Pakistani recovery, it won't be like Nawaz's last term in office.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And I do not need to prove anything either. Events will prove me right anyway.


Pakistan's enemies, real or perceived, have not changed any policies, nor are they likely to do so.
Pakistan's recovery is a mirage, born of short term jugglery that will be exposed soon enough.
The boots I refer to belong to Pakistan's own military.
And Saudis will be Saudis. (Renting a naukar is renting a naukar.)

Q.E.D.

 

[VCheng]

So, in the end, all it comes down to is time. With the IMF overseeing Pakistani recovery, it won't be like Nawaz's last term in office.

Already, cracks in the facade are appearing, including a growth rates that falls short and industrial production in jeopardy due to shortage of power. The IMF's prescription will be almost impossible for this government to achieve, including the issues of subsidies and tax reforms.

 

[tarrar]

If you honestly think that the military will save Pakistan, you need to get a reality check. You're so naive that you tend to forget that the only reason why we're even in this current mess is directly because of the military's coups. While India has progressed and has nearly become a regional hegemony, Pakistan has regressed because of all the conflicts that our dear military leaders have gotten us in. The political parties in Pakistan are corrupt, but time will clean them of that. The democratic system in Pakistan needs time to mature, and that will only happen if the military continues it's stance of staying out of civil politics. With your logic, all the great powers of the world that follow democracy should have been broken and destroyed by now, but we have the opposite of that.


No, our enemies are finally backing off. Pakistan is on a path to recovery, and it's rivals and enemies can no longer keep her under their thumb. Even the Saudis are learning to respect Pakistan.

You need to get a reality check, you cannot compare Muslims with Hindus. The only time Pakistan progressed was in the time of Military rule & whenever DEMOCRAZY came all the spineless politicians were busy naming their price to the enemies of Pakistan. Democratic system in Pakistan can never mature it will only get worse. Who are the next leaders Bilawal Zardari, Hamza Shahbaz, Mariam Nawaz & so on who were & are still build on robbed money of Pakistan & massive corruption.

While the countries around the world continue to build their Army to ensure the safety of their country & Economic development our spineless politicians have chosen to destroy both Pakistan & Pakistan Army.

If you look at Muslim history, the leaders were mostly Military Generals who lead their countries & lead the Military from the front, where as now a days people love DEMOCRAZY as it is the good way to rent themselves out & make money following the examples of Mir Jaffar, Mir Sadiq & so on.

Military Rule that's it, screw DEMOCRAZY as it has only brought only blood, pain & suffering in Pakistan.

 

[Globalwarrior]

Only an enemy of pakistan will wish the army to take over.

However, if the Army keep up their stellar history of takeovers, soon we will have to make Bangladesh our role model for progress and politics !! (.. thank you army.. you only know how to conquer pakistan

 

[Tameem]

Only an enemy of pakistan will wish the army to take over.

However, if the Army keep up their stellar history of takeovers, soon we will have to make Bangladesh our role model for progress and politics !! (.. thank you army.. you only know how to conquer pakistan

By firmly standing behind a criminal, this army doesn't looks Pakistani anymore

 

[SQ8]

By firmly standing behind a criminal, this army doesn't looks Pakistani anymore

I think the issue has more to do with misunderstanding and a bit of old friendship. A lot of the current top honchos are friends or junior favourites of Mush. Hence, the need to return the favor and help him out. To say that it translates across the Army as opinion of Musharraf is a but far fetched. There are supporters of Musharraf for their odd reasons, but there is support for NS as well since he is still the better hobsons choice compared to Zdari or IK as an administrator.

Also, the problem does not start or end with Musharraf; suppose if he is put under the spotlight on trial.. who do you think he will give up on the stand? Are those people currently on the roundtable? or were recently on the roundtable. The Army is ok with Musharraf being humiliated but will never accept twenty thirty three and starts being asked to come to court or worse.

NS is playing safe but his party members needs to understand that despite being somewhat accurate in what they say about the current situation, it is too soon to poke the bully now. Currently the bully is not working out, let his muscles for takeovers go limp over the next five ten years.. then they will NEVER have the guile to question the hierarchy of leadership laid out in the constitution of Pakistan.

 

[Tameem]

I think the issue has more to do with misunderstanding and a bit of old friendship. A lot of the current top honchos are friends or junior favourites of Mush. Hence, the need to return the favor and help him out. To say that it translates across the Army as opinion of Musharraf is a but far fetched. There are supporters of Musharraf for their odd reasons, but there is support for NS as well since he is still the better hobsons choice compared to Zdari or IK as an administrator.

Misunderstanding or Friendship but this blatant kumba-parwari exposes Pak Army in the eyes of the public opinion the most, they comes down to lawyers, doctors, judges level just for saving the skin of thier own kind and that too a person like Musharraf is unprecedented. This aspect is their all along but always remain hidden from public....Musharraf makes PA human from angles...this is a first setback in the longer run if one can understood whole heartedly.

Also, the problem does not start or end with Musharraf; suppose if he is put under the spotlight on trial.. who do you think he will give up on the stand? Are those people currently on the roundtable? or were recently on the roundtable. The Army is ok with Musharraf being humiliated but will never accept twenty thirty three and starts being asked to come to court or worse.

You are right, all will be rounded up one by one in court. They should never allow Musharraf to return back but the problem is no one on the top believe in pure historic khaki shaonism that NS will comes out that 'stupid' once more and so soon.....they purely underestimated him.....!

NS is playing safe but his party members needs to understand that despite being somewhat accurate in what they say about the current situation, it is too soon to poke the bully now. Currently the bully is not working out, let his muscles for takeovers go limp over the next five ten years.. then they will NEVER have the guile to question the hierarchy of leadership laid out in the constitution of Pakistan.

I don't think so, I mean if Pakistanis ever to achieve civilian supremacy and place army where it belongs, than this is the right time.....Army is wrong footed on Musharraf and if they try their luck once again for person like Musharraf they will be crushed in the eyes of public opinion forever....yes this is a catch-22 situation for them at this moment.....but more than anyone else they themselves are more responsible of it.

 

[batmannow]

China is on a different level, their goals are global, while India's goal is regional. The comparison would be stupid to make.

Your level of logical thinking is poor.


Except you're completely wrong, and everything you've said is also completely opinion based. Don't try to pass that off as fact.

First, neither Afghanistan nor the US are Pakistan's enemies, that's just your wishful thinking, so your entire argument stops right there. And what can India do to Pakistan now? Nothing. If this was 3-5 years ago, I would agree, but today's reality is different.

Second, Pakistan is on an economic and educational path of recovery, that's fact. Most major economic organizations agree with this, including the IMF, ADB and WB.

What big military boots? If anything the only military capable of taking on Pakistan for military superiority in the region is India, and they're finding it difficult, especially since Pakistan has Chinese help.

The Saudis have recently found out that they can't buy Pakistani loyalty anymore, considering the Nawaz has had to do damage control in Pakistan from the so called "financial gift" from the Saudis. The Opposition no longer trust the Saudis to allow the GoP to make any deals with KSA without extreme scrutiny. Also, Pakistan is far from a charity case for the Saudis. the Pak army has unfortunately always been considered KSA's unofficial military force, and the so called "aid" is nothing more than keeping Pakistan happy and loyal.

No on in the international community does anything out of sheer charity.

Again, you've proven nothing.

great logical band width of you?
frist you came & sung the ugly damocrzy the great song, then you went to giving examples of how damocrazy, made india a power to reckon with?
but you couldnt find any scale, why china wirhout hving a damocrazy, went ahead of india?
ohh its another sun , you are shying away?
my dear sir?