Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft [AMCA] Development | Updates & Discussions.

[Skull and Bones]

Oh My god what a design.

Good 'Oh, my God', or Bad 'Oh, my God'.

 

[HariPrasad]

May be . AMCA is for medium multi-role aircraft . FGFA / PAK FA are large air Superiority fighters same like Chinese have planned . Of course .
AMCA - J31
FGFA - J20
MKI - MKK / J11
MiG 29 upg - ?????
TEJAS MK1/MK2 - J10B
SU35S - Su35
Super Sukoi - Su35

General comparison

J 31, Absolutely no match to AMCA and J 20 is nowhere near FAGFA nor PAKFA.
MKI Much superior to MKK/ J11 Much better Avionics, Canard, Better Radar due for update to Super MKI standard.
Mig 29>>>????
There is some comperision between J10 an tejas.
SU 35S Shall be much better that Chinese Su35 like MKI>MKK.

Good 'Oh, my God', or Bad 'Oh, my God'.

Good See the design. Does it appear bad?

 

[IND151]

@sancho

Looks cool

 

[Skull and Bones]

Good See the design. Does it appear bad?

Too little to comment based on side profile, front profile matters the most. I find the canopy design weird, could extend further behind for better visibility. Then again, I'm not an expert.

 

[#hydra#]

"At the moment, the greatest hypothetical weight configuration of the AMCA design (with fuel and a certain weapons mix) has been calculated to be around 24.2 tons and ADA designers are confident that even with 105 KN engines, the AMCA would be able to meet design aerodynamic parameters. However given the experience with the LCA program, ADA this time really wants that 5 KN margin in order to be safe rather than sorry. It seems that the AMCA will also have an unusually large internal weapons bay that will have the capacity to accommodate around three tons worth of weapons. The AMCA will also feature six underwing pylons for externally carried weapons."

Reported by Saurav Jha in Dec '14.

How much can you really go on those graphics? They're not particularly polished and just seem to be put together in a hurry with a "Jaldi, Jaldi, put some missiles/bombs in there".

Why we are not going for al31 engine with flat nozzle, its a mature platform with 120+ know.By adding flat nozzle thrust vecoctoring ,effective thrust will be reduced to our requirement ie 105 to 110 but with better stealth shaping.

 

[holysaturn]

Too little to comment based on side profile, front profile matters the most. I find the canopy design weird, could extend further behind for better visibility. Then again, I'm not an expert.

Rearward visibility is a problem in most stealth fighters and they are not buble canopies like f-16,j-10,tejas so their ability to see downward right and left will also be not very good.
This is going to be a hughe blunder in close combat.The disadvantages of stealth are astounding ranging from higher weight,higher cost,more wave drag,high wing loading,higher maintenance,less payload,increased IR signature,low situational awareness all for low observable capability in the X band region.

 

[migflug]

GE Aviation will ship the first flight test F414-400 for a single-engine application to Saab later this year for the Gripen E, and production will begin in 2017.

Production of GE Aviation’s F414 fighter engine could run for another decade. Although orders for the main aircraft it powers, the twin-engine F-18 Super Hornet and Growler, are winding down, it is finding success elsewhere in the world.

GE Aviation will ship the first flight test F414-400 for a single-engine application to Saab later this year for the Gripen E, and production will begin in 2017. “We will have 90 engines on order by the end of this summer for Gripens for Sweden and Brazil,” says Jean Lydon-Rodgers, vice president and general manager of GE Aviation’s military systems. “And we expect that to increase as the Swedish order grows.”

The engine was also selected by India for the LCA Mk.2. The first flight test engine will ship in the fourth quarter of this year, with production to begin in 2018.

Korea, Turkey and India are also prospects for the engine for their next-generation fighter programs, she says.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Navy is being pitched an F414 upgrade that would bring 20% more thrust, twice the power takeoff for systems, and lower maintenance costs. “It’s a very low-risk upgrade incorporating an all-blisk compressor and 3D aero in the compressor and turbine,” she notes.

The upgrade is also being considered by India for its next-gen fighter program, and a deal there could include partnering with Indian industry on design of components.

Bright Future For GE’s F414 Fighter Engine | Paris Air Show 2015 content from Aviation Week

India’s Combat Aircraft Programmes: Learnings From Past - Saurav Jha

Meanwhile, the Chinese today are flying two fifth generation fighter prototypes, at least one of which will enter series production sometime in the next decade and India at the moment is merely entering the project definition phase for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which is a fifth generation effort crucial for India to continue building its aerospace sector on the foundation created through the LCA program. The AMCA is larger than the LCA and is a twin engine design in the ‘medium’ category with a max take off weight (MTOW) of 25 tons featuring stealth, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar, networked data fusion and a large internal weapons bay.

But to not make a mess of this program which as per current MoD discussionshas to begin flight testing in 2020 and enter production by 2025, it is important that the IAF accepts that the technology for what goes into making a fifth generation fighter is unevenly developed in India at the moment. For instance, India has very little capability in the domain of thrust vectoring at the moment and the IAF would do well to relax this requirement for the AMCA given that it isn’t really an absolute must for air combat in tomorrow’s environment. Then there is supercruise i.e the ability for a plane to fly at supersonic speed without the use of afterburner. For the AMCA, ADA is proposing a sustained speed of Mach 1.2 while using minimum after burner and expects that this would lead to a detection penalty of 5-7 km as compared to true supercruise.

Moreover, it is important that serious money be committed up front for this program with the IAF assuming ownership. At the moment some 7 test vehicles are envisaged to be built and tested at a cost of Rs 20000 crores. The engine for the AMCA prototypes will be the GE F414 INS6 to begin with i.ethe same as the Tejas MK-II. For the production standard AMCA a 110 KN engine will be required for which talks are on with GE and the US Government to launch a joint program for ‘co-developing’ a 110 KN variant of the baseline F-414. These talks are proceeding under the aegis of the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative and if successful will see the manufacture of F414 variants in India. In the event of these talks not yielding results a global tender will be used to select the final engine for the AMCA

 

[IND151]

GE Aviation will ship the first flight test F414-400 for a single-engine application to Saab later this year for the Gripen E, and production will begin in 2017.

Production of GE Aviation’s F414 fighter engine could run for another decade. Although orders for the main aircraft it powers, the twin-engine F-18 Super Hornet and Growler, are winding down, it is finding success elsewhere in the world.

GE Aviation will ship the first flight test F414-400 for a single-engine application to Saab later this year for the Gripen E, and production will begin in 2017. “We will have 90 engines on order by the end of this summer for Gripens for Sweden and Brazil,” says Jean Lydon-Rodgers, vice president and general manager of GE Aviation’s military systems. “And we expect that to increase as the Swedish order grows.”

The engine was also selected by India for the LCA Mk.2. The first flight test engine will ship in the fourth quarter of this year, with production to begin in 2018.

Korea, Turkey and India are also prospects for the engine for their next-generation fighter programs, she says.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Navy is being pitched an F414 upgrade that would bring 20% more thrust, twice the power takeoff for systems, and lower maintenance costs. “It’s a very low-risk upgrade incorporating an all-blisk compressor and 3D aero in the compressor and turbine,” she notes.

The upgrade is also being considered by India for its next-gen fighter program, and a deal there could include partnering with Indian industry on design of components.

Bright Future For GE’s F414 Fighter Engine | Paris Air Show 2015 content from Aviation Week

India’s Combat Aircraft Programmes: Learnings From Past - Saurav Jha

Meanwhile, the Chinese today are flying two fifth generation fighter prototypes, at least one of which will enter series production sometime in the next decade and India at the moment is merely entering the project definition phase for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which is a fifth generation effort crucial for India to continue building its aerospace sector on the foundation created through the LCA program. The AMCA is larger than the LCA and is a twin engine design in the ‘medium’ category with a max take off weight (MTOW) of 25 tons featuring stealth, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar, networked data fusion and a large internal weapons bay.

But to not make a mess of this program which as per current MoD discussionshas to begin flight testing in 2020 and enter production by 2025, it is important that the IAF accepts that the technology for what goes into making a fifth generation fighter is unevenly developed in India at the moment. For instance, India has very little capability in the domain of thrust vectoring at the moment and the IAF would do well to relax this requirement for the AMCA given that it isn’t really an absolute must for air combat in tomorrow’s environment. Then there is supercruise i.e the ability for a plane to fly at supersonic speed without the use of afterburner. For the AMCA, ADA is proposing a sustained speed of Mach 1.2 while using minimum after burner and expects that this would lead to a detection penalty of 5-7 km as compared to true supercruise.

Moreover, it is important that serious money be committed up front for this program with the IAF assuming ownership. At the moment some 7 test vehicles are envisaged to be built and tested at a cost of Rs 20000 crores. The engine for the AMCA prototypes will be the GE F414 INS6 to begin with i.ethe same as the Tejas MK-II. For the production standard AMCA a 110 KN engine will be required for which talks are on with GE and the US Government to launch a joint program for ‘co-developing’ a 110 KN variant of the baseline F-414. These talks are proceeding under the aegis of the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative and if successful will see the manufacture of F414 variants in India. In the event of these talks not yielding results a global tender will be used to select the final engine for the AMCA

Is it confirmed uparted F414-400 will power AMCA?

 

[uparyupari]

Is it confirmed uparted F414-400 will power AMCA?

Its confirmed that it will NOT. US Govt. said NO.

 

[HariPrasad]

Its confirmed that it will NOT. US Govt. said NO.

I thing AMCA shall use Thrust victor engine so 404 and 414 are are out of question. I read somewhere that a J V with russia is planned for down graded engine of MKI in 120 KN thrust range.

 

[uparyupari]

I thing AMCA shall use Thrust victor engine so 404 and 414 are are out of question. I read somewhere that a J V with russia is planned for down graded engine of MKI in 120 KN thrust range.

There is a Tender out there seeking assistance, however I do not see any progress there either. Its unlikely others will help us develop our engine. Best to go the R&D route, maybe involve private players.

 

[HariPrasad]

There is a Tender out there seeking assistance, however I do not see any progress there either. Its unlikely others will help us develop our engine. Best to go the R&D route, maybe involve private players.

provided we have another 15 years. Do we have? We are trying for years but still unable to catch up. A pragmatic approach is the demand of hour.

 

[uparyupari]

provided we have another 15 years. Do we have? We are trying for years but still unable to catch up. A pragmatic approach is the demand of hour.

LOL.... what makes you think anyone is going to help you design and build an fighter jet engine ?

Wishful thinking is NOT "pragmatism". Its just a dream, a fools paradise.

 

[Echo_419]

LOL.... what makes you think anyone is going to help you design and build an fighter jet engine ?

Wishful thinking is NOT "pragmatism". Its just a dream, a fools paradise.

AgReed no one willwill share engine tech with us better to invest in our own R&$

 

[HariPrasad]

LOL.... what makes you think anyone is going to help you design and build an fighter jet engine ?

Wishful thinking is NOT "pragmatism". Its just a dream, a fools paradise.

Russia, US, Germany. All have offered support. We already make MKI engine in india.