Zia ul Haq's Warning - Still Relevant Today?

[W.11]

Bro, it wasnt Zia which killed the Soviets, the main thing was fearless sacrifice of Afghan people from every corner which ensured the death of the USSR eventually, sadly we are the the ones who have paid the most for the cost of this victory-wish non of those had happend. Zia only played a role in a project which was designed by the US. If we see any radicalization today in the region is because Zia backed all those policies(initiated by the US) which is now biting pakistan too.

hahahahahhahahahaha, plan designed by US???, when did that time US had any intelligence of this region, and when did US trained the afghans, and when did US improved their strategy and lead them to fight the battle.... ahmed i didnt expect such nonsense coming from you, but u r another illeterate from afghanistan so i got it...

i know that it was afghani blood but afghanis were not professional enough to win the battle, also many pakistanis fought with afghans and it was loads of pakistani sacrifices also, also we were the one to deal with afghani refugees not USA

 

[Ahmad]

hahahahahhahahahaha, plan designed by US???, when did that time US had any intelligence of this region, and when did US trained the afghans, and when did US improved their strategy and lead them to fight the battle.... ahmed i didnt expect such nonsense coming from you, but u r another illeterate from afghanistan so i got it...

i know that it was afghani blood but afghanis were not professional enough to win the battle, also many pakistanis fought with afghans and it was loads of pakistani sacrifices also, also we were the one to deal with afghani refugees not USA

I do hope that your strongest point is not personal attacks. Yes, ISI trained the mujahideen to fight the USSR, but dont forget the huge flow of money and weapons from the west and others coming to pakistan and then going to Afghanistan. CIA was deeply involved in everything-be it training, funding etc. The US was the architect of promoting extremist muslims against the Soviets, that was their asset in that time. And about the paksitani sacrifice, i am sure there were some pakistani and arabs among the fighters, but not loads of as you say. To cut it short, fighting the soviets were one of our biggest mistakes.

 

[Omar1984]

I believe only a Punjabi (such as General Zia Ul Haq) or a Pakhtoon leader (such as Imran Khan) can do this. Not Sindhis (Bhuttos/Zardaris) or Mohajirs (Musharraf) who bow down to their gora masters.

Omar, your rants do not even warrant a reply, but I'll respond anyways:

I am a Shia "Mohajir" (I don't even use this word, I'm an Urdu speaking Pakistani Muslim). I am grateful that most of the Pakistanis I have encountered in my life do not share your narrow minded thoughts against their fellow Pakistanis. I was born in Pakistan, I am as much as a Pakistani as you are, & I do not have to prove my loyalty to you or anyone else. The great thing about Pakistan is that we are Pakistanis & Muslims, & this is a much greater bond than ethnicity ever is, the latter which you ascribe to. On a personal level, even though I'm a "moderate" but practicing Muslim, I believe Pakistan's Islamic identity is imperative to our existence, the glue that sticks the different ethnicities together: especially after 1971 when Bangladesh was created, & the constant Pashtun nationalist movements that arise from Afghanistan. By establishing Pakistan's Islamic identity, we have practically nullified the threat from ethnic separatist movements. Even though we ascribe to Pakistan's Islamic identity, we do not (& should not) tolerate Islamic radicalism that threatens women, Barelvis, Shias, Ahmedis & other non-Muslims, because they are lawful Pakistani citizens as well. With the holier-than-thou attitude you ascribe to, you are indirectly condoning attacks of the radical elements of our society on our fellow Pakistanis.

If I meet a liberal Mohajir or Sindhi, or even Punjabi or Pakhtun or any other ethnicity, I do not get worked up over him/her. I do not get worked up over people that overly criticize Pakistan either, but I defend Pakistan & everything it stands for with my full heart & soul. If India, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia or the US threaten the integrity of Pakistan, rest assured, I will be out on the street vouching for Pakistan with all my heart and soul. Do not doubt the resolve or the integrity of anyone, you do not know what is in their hearts, only Allah knows that. A lot of people are despondent about the situation in Pakistan, but they do this out of genuine care & love for the country. You or I may not agree with these people at all, but talk to them rationally, patiently. This is what Islam teaches us, what we should aspire to be as Pakistani Muslims, not pointing fingers at others & inciting violence. You should also extend this thought to ordinary citizens of all countries, most of whom do not mean ill like their governments do.

Even though I live in America, I hope & pray that Pakistan can break the shackles of the US in the region, & I hope all ethnicities (Pashtun, Kashmiri, Punjabi, Balochi, Mohajir, Sindhi, Hazara etc) can live peacefully together, & I'm optimistic that we will in the future. However, targeting a specific ethnicity for your personal gratification shows your bias & anti-Pakistan attitude. None of our ethnicities are angels, we have done some horrible things to each other in the past, but I think we have made it past those days & made great progress. Please don't display your obsolete mindset & bias here.

All great things you said, but unfortunately many Mohajirs I met in my life think just like their leader:

Well thats not the point. The point is that for the past 63 years, leaders of Pakistan have mostly been mohajirs and each time they lead the country they place other country's interests before Pakistan, and unlike in this forum mohajirs really dont represent the majority in Pakistan. Punjabis and Pakhtoons are the two largest ethnic groups in Pakistan and they should be leading the country (as they represent the majority in Pakistan) and they have the balls to stand up to bullies. Punjabis and Pakhtoons are historically known as the brave warriors of the region (not Sindhis, Uttar Pradeshis, Biharis, etc).

 

[Omar1984]

I do hope that your strongest point is not personal attacks. Yes, ISI trained the mujahideen to fight the USSR, but dont forget the huge flow of money and weapons from the west and others coming to pakistan and then going to Afghanistan. CIA was deeply involved in everything-be it training, funding etc. The US was the architect of promoting extremist muslims against the Soviets, that was their asset in that time. And about the paksitani sacrifice, i am sure there were some pakistani and arabs among the fighters, but not loads of as you say. To cut it short, fighting the soviets were one of our biggest mistakes.

If Afghan Mujahideens didnt fight the soviets then Afghanistan today would be part of the Soviet Communist empire and you would be teaching Russian to your kids like your brothers/sisters in Tajikistan were doing.

 

[Ahmad]

If Afghan Mujahideens didnt fight the soviets then Afghanistan today would be part of the Soviet Communist empire and you would be teaching Russian to your kids like your brothers/sisters in Tajikistan were doing.

Anyting would have been better than our 30 years of suffering. The soviets were going to go down anyways, they were one party gov imposed on the whole country, so even if we were under them, it wouldnt have been for long. Look at now, not only we are under slavery of differerent countries(neighbours and non neighbours.), but have also suffered in an unimaginable level. It is not possible for the outsiders to realize and understand what we have gone through for so long.

 

[RescueRanger]

Please vote for Altaf Bahi, that way i can actually live out my childhood fantasy of flying the Millenium Falcon and going han solo on his fat a$$.

 

[Karachiite]

All great things you said, but unfortunately many Mohajirs I met in my life think just like their leader:

Well thats not the point. The point is that for the past 63 years, leaders of Pakistan have mostly been mohajirs and each time they lead the country they place other country's interests before Pakistan, and unlike in this forum mohajirs really dont represent the majority in Pakistan. Punjabis and Pakhtoons are the two largest ethnic groups in Pakistan and they should be leading the country (as they represent the majority in Pakistan) and they have the balls to stand up to bullies. Punjabis and Pakhtoons are historically known as the brave warriors of the region (not Sindhis, Uttar Pradeshis, Biharis, etc).

You mean Punjabis like Takla Sharif that sold the whole country and apologized to India after Pakistani Army conducted nuclear tests and then a brave leader like Musharraf stepped in to fix all the problems? Or you mean a brave Pakhtun like Yahya Khan, who lost half of the country and exchanged dirty jokes on the phone with Indian politicians in December 1971?

It's amazing how you associate ethnicities with politicians. It's like me hating Pashtun people because majority of Taliban are Pashtun.

I'm tired of your rants on Indians and now minorities of Pakistan. A word of advice stay in your little bubble in North America and don't bother stepping on Pakistani soil. Even after your ban you still haven't learnt your lesson.

 

[Ahmad]

Why do you call Urdo speaking people as muhajirs? they might have migrated to paksitan 1-2 generations ago, but now they are pakistanis.

 

[SQ8]

Why do you call Urdo speaking people as muhajirs? they might have migrated to paksitan 1-2 generations ago, but now they are pakistanis.

Misplaced insecurity..

It is saddening..that these very people who some here look down upon due to their racist nature.. were responsible for the major push for independence.. The UP wallah's..the Bihari's..the bengali's.. etc
It is this mentality that broke the nation in two ..has led to an insurgency in Balochistan...and the cause of many ethnic tensions in the nation.
It is the product of british feudal nurturing....enviously India was able to gain independence from this mentality thanks to its leadership.. the fruits of which can be seen in their progressive and coherent society when it comes to ethnicity..
While Pakistan had to suffer these people who took this land as their sole inheritance..and even today play their racial cards to ensure that their profit does not subside...
The very mentality these people display.. is a stain on the word "Islamic" .. in the republic of Pakistan.
Either these people will soon disappear due to a change ... or there will be a change which will result in Pakistan being no more.

 

[Omar1984]

You mean Punjabis like Takla Sharif that sold the whole country and apologized to India after Pakistani Army conducted nuclear tests and then a brave leader like Musharraf stepped in to fix all the problems? Or you mean a brave Pakhtun like Yahya Khan, who lost half of the country and exchanged dirty jokes on the phone with Indian politicians in December 1971?

It's amazing how you associate ethnicities with politicians. It's like me hating Pashtun people because majority of Taliban are Pashtun.

I'm tired of your rants on Indians and now minorities of Pakistan. A word of advice stay in your little bubble in North America and don't bother stepping on Pakistani soil. Even after your ban you still haven't learnt your lesson.

HAHA. Nice try. Sharif brothers are Kashmiris and Yahya Khan was ethnic Qizilbash of Persian descent. Musharraf wasn't brave. All of Pakistan's problems today is caused by Musharraf, who bowed down to his gora masters and sold the country to Blackwater and CIA.

And you can't stop me from going to my country. I can go to Pakistan anytime I want. The Pak Sarzameen me, my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc are all from. If you have a problem with me coming to my homeland, my ancestral land, then maybe you should go back to uttar pradesh.

 

[T-Faz]

Pakistan needs another leader like General Zia ul Haq. Someone who can look straight in the eye of the superpower and is not afraid to tell it the way it is. Someone who wont be bullied by a superpower. Someone who will place Pakistan's strategic interests first.

Odd and misinformed statement but expected, firstly Gen. Zia did not stand up against any superpower because no superpower was trying to invade us or harm us in anyway. The Soviets mission was simple, to install a pro Soviet leadership in Kabul and stabilize the nation. Had they wanted, they would have marched right into Pakistan and no one would have been able to stop them.

Once the Soviets forces came right up to the border in pursuit of some mujahideen who were running across the border, they did not enter Pakistan because their orders were not to interfere in anything else but Afghanistan's internal political structure.

Gen Zia was also the biggest stooge of US we ever had, he sold the nation for a mere billions and let them bring in all kinds of extremists to fight in Afghanistan. His policy is the reason why we suffer as we do today, we was a lowly ranked brigadier who after killing thousands of Palestinians was propped up by the Arabs. He did after all supersede many officers after which he was made COAS and he wrecked the entire structure of the armed forces with his inexperienced doctrine.

Pakistan was playing at the hands of US and when they achieved their objectives, they removed the man they did not require anymore.

I believe only a Punjabi (such as General Zia Ul Haq) or a Pakhtoon leader (such as Imran Khan) can do this. Not Sindhis (Bhuttos/Zardaris) or Mohajirs (Musharraf) who bow down to their gora masters.

Gen Zia's family migrated from India so they are Mohajirs, Pathan leaders like Gen Ayub, Yahya and Musa did exactly what you mentioned, bowed before their white masters.

Punjabis hold the power centre of Pakistan and it is their policies that has made Pakistan what it is today.

Its the character of the man that makes a difference and not his background, after all the two people in your avatar are neither Pathan or Punjabi but were greater than many personalities in Pakistan.

Jinnah being a Gujrati and Iqbal being a Kashmiri, both 'mohajirs' in Pakistan.

PS, no ethnicity should take my post as offensive, I am a mix of multiple ethnicities but I only have one identity, Pakistan.

 

[FNFAL]

Oh it is very very relevant.
The pursuit of warm waters for soviets and control of trade for western powers has been going on for decades.

Gen Zia was a man who defeated and ruined USSR/ USA's plans for the region and at the same time he had the Indians under his thumb.

If only we could have another one.


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/47785-gen-zia-ul-haq-warning-still-relevant-today.html

It existed already... but I am glad you made one fresh.

Indians under pakitans thumb??You high or what?? Remember Siachen???

 

[Sinnerman108]

Indians under pakitans thumb??You high or what?? Remember Siachen???

huh !
you should have promoted Benazir to a Godess by now .. i hear it's a tradition in India.

Had it not been her ... India would not be in a position to call Punjab her province.

You need to go read and study.

 

[LaBong]

How funny to see the seeds that Bobs 'Robert' Bahadur planted still bearing fruits for India and Pakistan.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Odd and misinformed statement but expected, firstly Gen. Zia did not stand up against any superpower because no superpower was trying to invade us or harm us in anyway. The Soviets mission was simple, to install a pro Soviet leadership in Kabul and stabilize the nation. Had they wanted, they would have marched right into Pakistan and no one would have been able to stop them.

Once the Soviets forces came right up to the border in pursuit of some mujahideen who were running across the border, they did not enter Pakistan because their orders were not to interfere in anything else but Afghanistan's internal political structure.

Gen Zia was also the biggest stooge of US we ever had, he sold the nation for a mere billions and let them bring in all kinds of extremists to fight in Afghanistan. His policy is the reason why we suffer as we do today, we was a lowly ranked brigadier who after killing thousands of Palestinians was propped up by the Arabs. He did after all supersede many officers after which he was made COAS and he wrecked the entire structure of the armed forces with his inexperienced doctrine.

Pakistan was playing at the hands of US and when they achieved their objectives, they removed the man they did not require anymore.



Gen Zia's family migrated from India so they are Mohajirs, Pathan leaders like Gen Ayub, Yahya and Musa did exactly what you mentioned, bowed before their white masters.

Punjabis hold the power centre of Pakistan and it is their policies that has made Pakistan what it is today.

Its the character of the man that makes a difference and not his background, after all the two people in your avatar are neither Pathan or Punjabi but were greater than many personalities in Pakistan.

Jinnah being a Gujrati and Iqbal being a Kashmiri, both 'mohajirs' in Pakistan.

PS, no ethnicity should take my post as offensive, I am a mix of multiple ethnicities but I only have one identity, Pakistan.

Here here ....
May be Omar was not articulate enough in his post.
Let me rephrase what I am sure he was trying to say.

When referring to "Mohajir" he might have been referring to people who have Pakistani passport,
but feel it is important to project their Indian roots and Indian heritage more so than their Pakistani values.

We understand that it is not possible to 100% cut the old ties .... sure.
But we do not accept any attempt be made to make Pakistan secondary to any blood linkage to India.. or where ever.

That I believe is the whole point and I do not see any reason not to agree with that.