Zia ul Haq's Warning - Still Relevant Today?

[The HBS Guy]

Had it not been her ... India would not be in a position to call Punjab her province.

 

[W.11]

HAHA. Nice try. Sharif brothers are Kashmiris and Yahya Khan was ethnic Qizilbash of Persian descent. Musharraf wasn't brave. All of Pakistan's problems today is caused by Musharraf, who bowed down to his gora masters and sold the country to Blackwater and CIA.

And you can't stop me from going to my country. I can go to Pakistan anytime I want. The Pak Sarzameen me, my father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc are all from. If you have a problem with me coming to my homeland, my ancestral land, then maybe you should go back to uttar pradesh.

hello omer, but it seems like you are not the same patriotic guy who appeared before the ban when you said about the unity and patriotism of nation, this is outrageous that your are discriminating here and i didnt expect these bullshits coming out from you...

i know musharraf was a scum of the earth and he solely has nothing to do with urdu speakers, he was a disgraceful guy and we never supported him just because he was a 'mohajir', its all because of him we are so americanified and terrorified now a days..... but musharraf didnt stand alone, the whole punjabi lot of PMLQ supported him and through their PLMQ he tried to justified his reign

can somebody do a check on his account maybe some bharti has hijacked a pakistani account thanks.... in this way his ip must be coming from india not USA

 

[T-Faz]

When referring to "Mohajir" he might have been referring to people who have Pakistani passport,
but feel it is important to project their Indian roots and Indian heritage more so than their Pakistani values.

Most leaders have tried to carve an identity but their idea was always limited to a certain section. Thus their developed identity never came to be known as Pakistani but only an ethnic variance within the nation. Let me give an example, what is acceptable to people from a certain ethnicity might not be applicable to other people within Pakistan and that is why the identity of Pakistan should be a mixture of multiple roots and their combined cultures.

We understand that it is not possible to 100% cut the old ties .... sure.
But we do not accept any attempt be made to make Pakistan secondary to any blood linkage to India.. or where ever.

But no one has tried to make Pakistan secondary to any other nation, except the fact that many have made it work on behalf of other nations to a lot of damage.

In terms of cutting old ties, they were cut the minute those people migrated to Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

Here here ....
May be Omar was not articulate enough in his post.
Let me rephrase what I am sure he was trying to say.

When referring to "Mohajir" he might have been referring to people who have Pakistani passport,
but feel it is important to project their Indian roots and Indian heritage more so than their Pakistani values.

We understand that it is not possible to 100% cut the old ties .... sure.
But we do not accept any attempt be made to make Pakistan secondary to any blood linkage to India.. or where ever.

That I believe is the whole point and I do not see any reason not to agree with that.

By Pakistani values.. what are those?
Are they Punjabi values? Pathan values? sindhi values or baloch values?
What values?
So if tomorrow there is a Pathan born in Punjab.. he/she should abandon Pushto?
Values are from families ....not the land.. If wearing the dupatta is a value.. then there would be many values that are common to both Indian's and Pakistani's..

Thanks to Mr Zia.. we have mixed up culture with religion..and have lost our identity all together..
Its this search of an identity that is the cause of all such racial slurs posted before..and the need for "pakistani" values.
If dancing in at the wedding is ok for one part of Pakistan.. it isnt necessary that it hold true for the other.
rather it is the celebration..and respect of the other's culture..and compromise.. that was the cornerstone of Jinnah's vision.. long lost.. or twisted, adulterated.. id dare say.. raped.. into what is projected today..

 

[RescueRanger]

id dare say.. raped.. into what is projected today..

Be careful Santro bahi, or some nutter mullah might just fire a Fatwa on you for being ghustaq!

 

[Meengla]

Anyting would have been better than our 30 years of suffering. The soviets were going to go down anyways, they were one party gov imposed on the whole country, so even if we were under them, it wouldnt have been for long. Look at now, not only we are under slavery of differerent countries(neighbours and non neighbours.), but have also suffered in an unimaginable level. It is not possible for the outsiders to realize and understand what we have gone through for so long.

First of all, the title of this thread should be: 'Zia ul Haq WAS a warning!'

About your views about Soviets in Afghanistan, I would appreciate if we open another topic about the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan. I tend to think that nothing the Soviets could have done would be worse than the medieval thugs like Talibans ended up doing to the Afghans. I think there was empowerment of women in Afghanistan. More education. I also think, by 1986, despite the MASSIVE money, weapons and jihadis, the so-called Mujahideen were mostly neutralized. But then Americans introduced Stingers to the Mujahideen and trained them to use. That started turning the tide.

 

[T-Faz]

The soviets were willing to end the war through a phased power sharing agreement whereby the moderate elements remained intact but USA wanted to see them defeated and they refused to deal with the matter through proposed talks.

Had the USG decided to agree to the Soviet proposal, things would be so much better.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Zia was another HOSNI MUBARAK ...promised dicatorship like rule if he cooperated with west POWER CURRUPTS

During his time in power country became radicalized, history books were wiped clean of his acts

Constitution was re written - and alot more atrocities were committed against the people he was hired to serve.

All Muslim countries are ruled by WAR LORDS , who get nods and approvals as long as they wear the leash

Its time for People of Pakistan to also stand up ..like in Egypt and catch all Raymond Davis and Zardaris running around in black bullet proof vans and make a statement

Last free Muslim civilization ended frist world war we are all part of elaborate scheme of divided nations small controllable regions

 

[DV RULES]

sooo... you are hoping I would help you improve your research and analytical skills

Ok then let me say that even you don't know what exactly happened in Afghanistan in 1979 - 1986, you looks like just a fan and nothing more.

 

[Meengla]

Ok then let me say that even you don't know what exactly happened in Afghanistan in 1979 - 1986, you looks like just a fan and nothing more.

This guy Salman almost has to be a family member or a 'Pind-wala' of Zia ul Haq. Hard to find anyone else supporting Zia in Pakistan these days despite the fact that, by 1988, he had MISRULED a full 25% of Pakistan's history.
A sad case.

 

[pak-marine]

Your right these Sindhis, Muhajirs and the rest are not even Pakistani. Sometimes I don't even know why Urdu speakers even came to Pakistan, those idiots sacrifices their lives, properties, families, wealth etc to come to a country that openly discriminates against them and many other ethnicities. Bengalis were idiots too by joining Pakistan but they realized their mistake and thankfully separated. Lets hope Baluchis realize their mistakes as well. You know Pakistan should have only compromised of Punjab and KP. Because those people are more patriotic.

Founder of Pakistan (a Sindhi-Muhajir), The man who gave Pakistan the atomic bomb (a Muhajir), the man who brought Pakistan back up after a civil war (a Sindhi), the man who flooded Pakistan with economic growth (a Muhajir).
And going by your thinking these people are not patriotic or loyal to Pakistan and they bow down to their gora masters correct?

this guy has ethnicity issue .. he is plain racist rat , i wanted write a lot so much with real examples on his so called heroes some of who bended over on live TV to indians & bengalis ... however i gave it a thought and decided Not to else there wont be any difference. I had to atleast say this not to score but to let this joke realise and understand to stop generalizing for once.

Pakistan must exterminate this ideology from its soil , our country needs detox and cure for this paranoia else it will cause more damage .... and too start with this forum wont be a bad place. If racist crap like Omars post is tolerated than it wil cause more harm nothing else.

 

[53fd]

When referring to "Mohajir" he might have been referring to people who have Pakistani passport,
but feel it is important to project their Indian roots and Indian heritage more so than their Pakistani values.

We understand that it is not possible to 100% cut the old ties .... sure.
But we do not accept any attempt be made to make Pakistan secondary to any blood linkage to India.. or where ever.

That I believe is the whole point and I do not see any reason not to agree with that.

I am not trying to target Pakhtuns or anyone here, but all the Pashtun nationalist and separatist movements are triggered in FATA and KP. Despite you claiming that "Mohajirs" like me feel it important to project my Indian roots and heritage, I have no Indian roots or values. I was brought up in Pakistan, my connection is with Pakistan, I have never lived in India so I have no connection to it. My family is perfectly integrated in Pakistan, we even speak fluent Punjabi even though it's not our first language (we're Biharis, my dad was born in Bihar a few years before 1947). My Chachoos and Mamoos have fought Pakistan's wars, and one of my Chachoos gave his life for Pakistan in 1971, may Allah grant him Jannah. There have been no separatist movements coming from Sindhis or Mohajirs, but there have been from some Pakhtuns. Yet, you don't see me targeting Pakhtuns or anyone else like you do with "Mohajirs" and Sindhis. It's very interesting, Omar mentioned only the natives of the land, Punjabis and Pakhtuns as Pakistan nationalists. A lot of Punjabis were "Mohajirs" (they migrated from Indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab, so by the definition of the word 'Mohajir', they are). Omar also forgot to mention the Balochis, who are also native to Balochistan, the land of this country. I wonder why. There is a contradiction here.

Although Musharraf did some pretty bad things in his regime, every leader before him did that too. But Musharraf has fought for the Pakistani Army in all the wars against India, you cannot doubt his patriotism. Anyone who puts his life on the line for his country is patriotic. And if you remember, Musharraf and the Pakistan Army made great inroads into Indian occupied/administered Kashmir in 1999, before he was called back by Nawaz Sharif. Even then, he was refusing to withdraw the troops, all because of his patriotism, not for any personal gratification. Dr A.Q.Khan was born in Bhopal, and he migrated to Pakistan, so he can also be regarded as a "Mohajir". My point is, don't point your finger towards one single person, and then stereotype and equate the whole ethnic group to that one person. I can assure you, I hate the dirty political game played by Altaf Hussain and the MQM, as well as ANP and PPP in Karachi. Although I personally believe that the MQM have reformed their image from vandalism to moderation in the past 10-15 years, and have focused on infrastructure development and moderation, as compared to both the ANP and PPP. Don't say "Mohajirs" are not the majority of Pakistan, and Punjabis or Pakhtuns are, I am NOT a Mohajir or an Indian, I am a Pakistani. We are all in the majority.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I never understood the whole ethnic collide other then just marginal regional benefits here and there once you step out of Pakistan you all stand in same line and wait to bow down to immigration officers

Be it musharaf, nawaz or benazir they all wait in same line in UK border window

 

[Meengla]

The term 'Mohajir' in Pakistan's context is used to describe Urdu (or various other dialects) Speakers from India who mostly settled in the urban areas of Sindh around the 1947 Partition. Part of the term was self-applied and part was applied to them.
The main reason for the Mohajirs to be not able to 'assimilate' like other migrants is the fact that these new Urdu Speaker migrants came in huge numbers, in a short duration, in specific urban areas like Karachi, Hyderabad, and Sukker. All in Sindh. They almost instantly turned relatively small towns into bigger and bigger cities. Assimilation happens when a small minority comes in the midst of a majority. Yet that was not the case. These people who came from India to urban Sindh were often better educated, prosperous, politically conscious then the local relatively minor populations of ethnic groups. These migrants from India, due to their immediate majority state, did not think the need to learn Sindhi. In contrast, the Mohajirs who migrated to smaller cities or villages adapted local language and 'assimilated' quickly. They can be probably found in places like Thatta, Sindh where they are likely to speak fluent Sindhi. For Punjabis migrants, it was mostly a migration to the same language group. Assimilation was easier.

That is the main reason a separate 'Mohajir' identity was established. Not because these people wanted to really be called Mohajirs. They -were- 'Mohajirs' in probably early demographic data and govt. policies. However, these people LEFT India for good. My own parents came to Karachi from prosperous families, bringing in lots of money to invest and start a new life. They never looked back or regretted that. Honestly.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Lets blast Zia Ul Haq twice thread... Yooo Hooo

Guys... They are all the reddish of the same farm... Get over it...

You want change... sit down and do your homework... Write it out in details...

Zia did what everyone else has done and has been doing... power gets to the heads of some people... Busharaf was as much an idiot (perhaps more)... The fault is our own that we are a nation which lacks leaders and is unable to sort out our own problems... USA is nothing, India is nothing... all the enemies of Pakistan put together are nothing... we ourselves are enough to destroy ourselves...

and for those who want to bring change... learn to give respect where respect is due... you ll be successful in life and hereafter... trust me... I used to be a rebel without a cause... I speak from experience...

Respect those who should be respected... and forget Zia Ul Haq... Its been twenty years and people are still talking about him... LOL

We have seen what others have done... Benazir, Nawaz, Musharaf, Zardari... LanatAllah on all of them

As for those who do not want change... Treat them like you hate them...

As for those who think they can comment on what should ve been done in Afghanistan at that time... oh please... children telling fathers how to make babies... You guys have almost zero idea about the brutality of the communists...