Zarb A Azb: Why Is Pak Military Bragging About Its Success

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

This is something I have often wondered in the past many months---why is pak military bragging about the success it has achieved during operation Zarb A Azb.

This type of operation is the regular job for a military who is facing terrorism. This operation is not out of the ordinary---it is the creation of pakistan military for not doing its job in time.

For 13 years---you---the pakistani military generals were lollygagging around---strutting around like peacocks while creating drama and crisis one incidence after the other.

It was your job to understand and tell the pakistani public the consequences of the U S military invasion of AFG.

It was your job to understand the consequences of Osama Bin Laden escaping from AFG into pakistan and to explain it to the pakistani public.

It was your job to understand the significance of all the terrorists headed into pakistan after the american bombings and explain it to the pakistani public.

It was your job to understand the deceit of the U S military when it allowed Osama Bin Laden to escape from kadhar at first and then secondly from Tora Bora and explain it to the pakistani public the consequences.

It was your job to understand the american frame of mind---not from your pakistani perspective----but from a true american perspective and explain it as such to the pakistani piublic.

It was your job to understand the consequences of a christian U S military invading a muslim nation afghanistan and realizing the problems arsing in the future.

It was also your job in understanding that with the changing interest of the U S govt. in the region---and india being put on the back burner---there would be consequences to face and yet you were not ready for the inevitable---twice.

You kept making blunders one after the other by trying to make peace deals with terrorists where there were no deals to be made---. You literally allowed unknown people like Mullah radio to become a known terrorist leader.

You allowed the Imam of red mosque to openly threaten you and the country and yet you had no clue how to contain him.

Where there was the need for containment without any outside connection---you allowed the red mosque mullah to be on the TV and radio thru a phone and direct tv telecast.

Where there was military action needed from day one---you had sob stories of peace deals and Lashkars---.

Osama Bin Laden was found and killed in pakistan and pakistan blamed for it---yet you could not verbally fire back at the U S for conveniently letting him escape intentionally 2 plus times.

U S troops were on the ground at abbotabad for 45 minutes---giving you an opening to tell the world that the operation had your participation---so that the backlash of the world public opinion could be reduced----that it was your information that had led to this operation.

And it was due to the COWARDICE of your commander in chief---the man to be hanged General Kiyani that you chose to be quiet and his henchman General Pasha---another one to be hanged---. You let the foreign nations smash the image of pakistan through out the world and yet you could not utter a single word in re-directing the damaging propaganda.

These two cowards Kiyani and Pasha have been the cause of so much damage to the name and integrity of pakistan---and rather them charging them with HIGH TREASON----and putting them in front of a FIRING SQUAD you have put them on a pedastal.

Your air base got attacked in karachi and many a awacs got destroyed---because the base commander had no sense of security---why is that base commander no court martialled and put in front of a firing squad----.

Your GHQ got attacked and was under siege for some time----why was that base commander not charged with dereliction of duty and put in front of a firing squad.

Yoru air base at Kamra got attacked---more awacs destroyed---there was no concept of base security at this place----why was the base commander not charged with dereliction of duty and not put in front of a firing squad----.

Why was the air marshall of the air force not charged with dereliction of duty----for not having the ability to have his orders of base security taken seriously---why has he not been executed by a firing squad----.

Budabir air base is attacked---again there is a lack of security---30 airmen are killed----why is the base commander not charged with dereliction of duty---why has the air chief marshall not been charged with the dereliction of duty of not having his orders obeyed---why have these two men not been put in front of a firing squad.

You---the military generals made Asif Zardari---the most corrupt man in the history of pakistan as its president---youhave started this drama for the last one year about rounding up corrupt politicians and yet you let most of them escape.

You were so stupid that one top corrupt person lied to you stating that his brother had died in england---so allow him to go for burial---and you let him---without verifying that he had no brother who died in england---.

There is one drama after another----there are problems and then there are problems---and yet there is no closure to those problems----.

Don't you guys understand that time is your worst enemy---if you let problems linger on---they will come and haunt you---if you let problems escape---they will come and bit you in the ar-se---. Have you generals not seen it happen many a times in the last 14 years.

You fell into the trap of DEMOCRACY---but you have shown no clue that you understand what it is----.

A democracy---without Order in the society and the Enforcement of the rule of law is no democracy---you have to have these two in place to have a chance at democracy---but when you have sell out generals like Kiyani and Pasha---then what is expected.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

This is something I have often wondered in the past many months---why is pak military bragging about the success it has achieved during operation Zarb A Azb.

This type of operation is the regular job for a military who is facing terrorism. This operation is not out of the ordinary---it is the creation of pakistan military for not doing its job in time.

It's not about bragging, its about taking pride in one's accomplishments and the success of Zarb e Azb is visible with the improving security situation of the country.

Regarding your point that it was needed to be done earlier, well certainly yes. It was a bit too late, but we have to understand something here. The army can not go into such a huge operation without the backing of people and previously there was a clear lack of support from the populace and political parties for such an operation. Even during the Swat Operation there were many voices against it, and I remember Saad Rafiq of PMLN crying on live TV after that operation was launched.

The national narrative was against the military launching operations in any part of the country. Now that the narrative is in their support they have went in.

But yes that brings us to the question that how the previous narrative was created at the first place, why there was so much support for armed militias, why it was so hard to crack down upon guys like Abdul Aziz. For that I don't think Kiyani or Pasha are the guys responsible, it was because of our state policies for more than 3 decades where some armed militias were considered as state tools. The same old good and bad Taliban story.

My generation grew up hearing the stories of marvelous bravery of these militias against Soviets and Indians in IOK. When I was a kid in 90's these guys used to came on their trucks on streets with banners saying Aik Mujahid 50k mein tayar hota hai how many can you create and many a times I actually gave them my pocket money thinking these are the good guys who need it more than I do. So they were kind of my childhood heroes and now you tell me that they are bad for society, it will take some time before I start believing you.

So such operations were not that easy to launch when the majority of the populace was against them.

 

[MastanKhan]

It's not about bragging, its about taking pride in one's accomplishments and the success of Zarb e Azb is visible with the improving security situation of the country.

Regarding your point that it was needed to be done earlier, well certainly yes. It was a bit too late, but we have to understand something here. The army can not go into such a huge operation without the backing of people and previously there was a clear lack of support from the populace and political parties for such an operation. Even during the Swat Operation there were many voices against it, and I remember Saad Rafiq of PMLN crying on live TV after that operation was launched.

The national narrative was against the military launching operations in any part of the country. Now that the narrative is in their support they have went in.

But yes that brings us to the question that how the previous narrative was created at the first place, why there was so much support for armed militias, why it was so hard to crack down upon guys like Abdul Aziz. For that I don't think Kiyani or Pasha are the guys responsible, it was because of our state policies for more than 3 decades where some armed militias were considered as state tools. The same old good and bad Taliban story.

My generation grew up hearing the stories of marvelous bravery of these militias against Soviets and Indians in IOK. When I was a kid in 90's these guys used to came on their trucks on streets with banners saying Aik Mujahid 50k mein tayar hota hai how many can you create and many a times I actually gave them my pocket money thinking these are the good guys who need it more than I do. So they were kind of my childhood heroes and now you tell me that they are bad for society, it will take some time before I start believing you.

So such operations were not that easy to launch when the majority of the populace was against them.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum---. It is the job of the military to make the public understand and not " SAMJHAIYN "----.

Public needs to be controlled in the proper manner---. There was too much freedom given to news and tv media---and pakistan paid heavily for it.

" Not easy to launch "----you should read operation blue star---how the indian military took out the sikhs----and that also thru a sikh general----.

Indira Gandhi had ballz 10 times larger than most of these of pakistani generals---.

 

[elitepilot09]

Ughhh. Another @MastanKhan thread.

Please save me the trouble.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

@MastanKhan Sir i hope you're living in US, otherwise its only going to end up in trouble for you

So you believe our ISI is a Gestapo kind of outfit that takes out anyone who questions army?

See the thing is I have met people in Pakistan who think that in India there are always some Hindu mobs going around and killing muslims if someone alleges them of eating beef. Personally I don't think that is the case.

Similarly Pakistan is a free society, well at least one of free ones in the Muslim world. If you do come here, try visiting any tea shop in any part of a city, you will find most of the people talking about politics, we love doing that. And a few of them will might be accusing their armed forces and no one will care for a second about Gestapo listening to their conversations. And there is fair bit of chance a military guy will be sitting among them and he will not care at all about what they are talking about.

Point is don't try to judge a country while you have never visited it. Media often creates a biased and a wrong picture of a country and society.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum---. It is the job of the military to make the public understand and not " SAMJHAIYN "----.

" Not easy to launch "----you should read operation blue star---how the indian military took out the sikhs----and that also thru a sikh general----.

Indira Gandhi had ballz 10 times larger than most of these of pakistani generals---.

Let me be a little blunt about it, Sikhs were 2.5 percent of the Indian population. The areas where we are launching operations are pukhtun dominated, which is the second largest ethnic group that makes around 25-30 percent of the population. Without creating national consensus, it had all the ingredients for creating resentments in that ethnic group.

Then the sectarian affiliation, Deo-band, Ahle-Hadees and Jamat e Islami make around 35-40 percent of total population. These are the guys who are actually supportive to these ideologies. And till recently they were the ones who had much more voice than the rest of the religious groups.

So it is not like Blue-Star, it is not against secessionists, it is against an ideological militia that had many supporters all across the Pakistani society. So we need national consensus on this, but yes no real effort was put in motion to create such a consensus.

 

[MastanKhan]

but yes no real effort was put in motion to create such a consensus.

Hi,

My problem is that there was no sense of urgency for 13 years.

My problem is that once the U S re-aligned itself with pakistan---pakistani military had no plan in place to counter india.

My problem is that Mullah Fazalullah became a somebody due to the incompetence of pak militaray.

My problem is that pak military should have started a massive media campaign against the militants and they never did.

My problem is that pak military should have had more control over the tv media.

My problem is that the pak military allowed the tv media to sabotage the efforts of pak military thus making it impotent.

As for the secratarian issue---that could also be controlled by controlling the media and by taking lightening fast action against the anti state elements----.

The crux of the problem is---that nothing was done in a timely manner---neither by the pakistani military---and also neither by the U S military.

They both failed miserably----. The U S military failed 10000 miles away from their home---pak military failed on its home turf.

Even with so many sacrifices---we are still a pariah nation--we are being bashed all over the world----it is due to the failure of the military not doing its job in time.

Ughhh. Another @MastanKhan thread.

Please save me the trouble.

Hi,

Somewhere there is an " ignore " button---just use it---but then with 140 posts to your name---there is not much you can say---even though you can say whatever you want to.

 

[I S I]

Another thread by Mastan. Waste of bandwidth.

@MastanKhan Sir i hope you're living in US, otherwise its only going to end up in trouble for you

Don't worry, we believe in freedom of speech unlike you guys who runs after your national celebrities with pitchforks when they something you don't like or eat something you don't like.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Hi,

My problem is that there was no sense of urgency for 13 years.

My problem is that once the U S re-aligned itself with pakistan---pakistani military had no plan in place to counter india.

My problem is that Mullah Fazalullah became a somebody due to the incompetence of pak militaray.

My problem is that pak military should have started a massive media campaign against the militants and they never did.

My problem is that pak military should have had more control over the tv media.

My problem is that the pak military allowed the tv media to sabotage the efforts of pak military thus making it impotent.

As for the secratarian issue---that could also be controlled by controlling the media and by taking lightening fast action against the anti state elements----.

The crux of the problem is---that nothing was done in a timely manner---neither by the pakistani military---and also neither by the U S military.

They both failed miserably----. The U S military failed 10000 miles away from their home---pak military failed on its home turf.

Even with so many sacrifices---we are still a pariah nation--we are being bashed all over the world----it is due to the failure of the military not doing its job in time.

Sir Mastan, my personal understanding is which can be wrong that our military top brass miscalculated the American interest in the region and their determination as well.

It was thought right after 9/11 that America is angry and wants to punish someone, they won't be here for long. The attack on Iraq actually supported such frame of mind. So we thought it will be business as usual once they leave the region so covertly we supported the Afghan Taliban so that once the Americans leave Afghanistan and the civil war starts again we can have a friendly regime there again.

In those early years there was no real effort put into changing things within Pakistan.

But Americans stayed way too long and our strategy of appeasing a few Taliban groups started backfiring. With the advent of TTP and growing militancy within Pakistan our armed forces started acting against them. It is only been about 6 years that we are seeing serious efforts to fight extremism within Pakistan.

And we all remember what was the public reaction to our own Blue star (Lal Masjid). But later once it was established that Kabul is not gonna fall soon and these guys are less of an asset and more of a pain in the a**, we can see an effort by the army to change the national narrative through media.

So yes with hindsight I agree with you that things should have been done differently and at more pace. But even if I was the COAS in 2002, and I had all the baggage of 20 years of supporting such groups on my shoulder, I would have done the same.

I would like to know how you would have done it if you were at helm of things back then, knowing that Talis were our guys and with intelligence that Americans are not here for long.

 

[saiyan0321]

Those are without a doubt reaonable questions that should not be ignored. I love my army and I consider raheel Sharif a hero but those questions need to be answered and the public assured that such incidence will never happen due to greater security.

I remember reading a column where the writer stated.
He asked one of his teachers why do you criticize the top students and check their work with such scrutiny. Why not the failures? Surely they deserve more criticism. The teacher said that the failures are hopeless. No matter how much I try it won't work. The middle students and toppers need to be pushed and scrutinized ... I gave them extra attention and was more critical so that they would improve...

That's why we are a bit critical of the army. It's the only institution we have any hope from and thus when it screws it up we are disappointed and want answers.... Everybody applauds zarb e azb and our armed forces dedication but why those events happened and what has been done to combat them is something we need to know and most of all the soldiers guarding those places need to know.

As for the above question... The operation was no war on foreign land. It was an operation in our own lands against our own people who about 7 years ago were considered mujahedeens.. The operation was being led by an army who 7 years ago was the most hated institution in Pakistan. This is where i give kiyani some respite. He took control of the army when it was most hated in its history and recreated the love for them again.

The army thus needs to advertise this war. It needs to win the information warfare bcz that's the only way they can keep the public opinion on their side and public is happy that they are in. Believe me I am happy that I know what's going on and who were the heroes in this war. Thus the high rate advertisement of zarb e azb... As you said US fought a war 10000 miles away and we are fighting in our own homes where the govt made s promise not to send armed forces for decades. We need information war abdbthe Hugh advertising has changed our image from terror state to atleast doing something amongst the world nations ( not public of those nations ) which is a start.....

I don't find the information a problem. Better to be kept in the loop than out of it andni can sympathize with the rest.

 

[Sugarcane]

I agree, When military establishment takes the credit of successes, it should also take equal responsibility of all the mess which shouldn't have been there at first place had they not blunders or preferred own interests over national interests. And it's also fact that Zarb-e-Azab against corruption is also a drama going on where things will finally settle down after Muk-Muka as have been always.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

This is something I have often wondered in the past many months---why is pak military bragging about the success it has achieved during operation Zarb A Azb.

This type of operation is the regular job for a military who is facing terrorism. This operation is not out of the ordinary---it is the creation of pakistan military for not doing its job in time.

For 13 years---you---the pakistani military generals were lollygagging around---strutting around like peacocks while creating drama and crisis one incidence after the other.

It was your job to understand and tell the pakistani public the consequences of the U S military invasion of AFG.

It was your job to understand the consequences of Osama Bin Laden escaping from AFG into pakistan and to explain it to the pakistani public.

It was your job to understand the significance of all the terrorists headed into pakistan after the american bombings and explain it to the pakistani public.

It was your job to understand the deceit of the U S military when it allowed Osama Bin Laden to escape from kadhar at first and then secondly from Tora Bora and explain it to the pakistani public the consequences.

It was your job to understand the american frame of mind---not from your pakistani perspective----but from a true american perspective and explain it as such to the pakistani piublic.

It was your job to understand the consequences of a christian U S military invading a muslim nation afghanistan and realizing the problems arsing in the future.

It was also your job in understanding that with the changing interest of the U S govt. in the region---and india being put on the back burner---there would be consequences to face and yet you were not ready for the inevitable---twice.

You kept making blunders one after the other by trying to make peace deals with terrorists where there were no deals to be made---. You literally allowed unknown people like Mullah radio to become a known terrorist leader.

You allowed the Imam of red mosque to openly threaten you and the country and yet you had no clue how to contain him.

Where there was the need for containment without any outside connection---you allowed the red mosque mullah to be on the TV and radio thru a phone and direct tv telecast.

Where there was military action needed from day one---you had sob stories of peace deals and Lashkars---.

Osama Bin Laden was found and killed in pakistan and pakistan blamed for it---yet you could not verbally fire back at the U S for conveniently letting him escape intentionally 2 plus times.

U S troops were on the ground at abbotabad for 45 minutes---giving you an opening to tell the world that the operation had your participation---so that the backlash of the world public opinion could be reduced----that it was your information that had led to this operation.

And it was due to the COWARDICE of your commander in chief---the man to be hanged General Kiyani that you chose to be quiet and his henchman General Pasha---another one to be hanged---. You let the foreign nations smash the image of pakistan through out the world and yet you could not utter a single word in re-directing the damaging propaganda.

These two cowards Kiyani and Pasha have been the cause of so much damage to the name and integrity of pakistan---and rather them charging them with HIGH TREASON----and putting them in front of a FIRING SQUAD you have put them on a pedastal.

Your air base got attacked in karachi and many a awacs got destroyed---because the base commander had no sense of security---why is that base commander no court martialled and put in front of a firing squad----.

Your GHQ got attacked and was under siege for some time----why was that base commander not charged with dereliction of duty and put in front of a firing squad.

Yoru air base at Kamra got attacked---more awacs destroyed---there was no concept of base security at this place----why was the base commander not charged with dereliction of duty and not put in front of a firing squad----.

Why was the air marshall of the air force not charged with dereliction of duty----for not having the ability to have his orders of base security taken seriously---why has he not been executed by a firing squad----.

Budabir air base is attacked---again there is a lack of security---30 airmen are killed----why is the base commander not charged with dereliction of duty---why has the air chief marshall not been charged with the dereliction of duty of not having his orders obeyed---why have these two men not been put in front of a firing squad.

You---the military generals made Asif Zardari---the most corrupt man in the history of pakistan as its president---youhave started this drama for the last one year about rounding up corrupt politicians and yet you let most of them escape.

You were so stupid that one top corrupt person lied to you stating that his brother had died in england---so allow him to go for burial---and you let him---without verifying that he had no brother who died in england---.

There is one drama after another----there are problems and then there are problems---and yet there is no closure to those problems----.

Don't you guys understand that time is your worst enemy---if you let problems linger on---they will come and haunt you---if you let problems escape---they will come and bit you in the ar-se---. Have you generals not seen it happen many a times in the last 14 years.

You fell into the trap of DEMOCRACY---but you have shown no clue that you understand what it is----.

A democracy---without Order in the society and the Enforcement of the rule of law is no democracy---you have to have these two in place to have a chance at democracy---but when you have sell out generals like Kiyani and Pasha---then what is expected.

Wrong caption but good commentary
I was expecting some analysis on the way the operation was/ is conducted.

 

[Slav Defence]

Wrong caption but good commentary
I was expecting some analysis on the way the operation was/ is conducted.

Nah,the entire post was filled with 'questions' and 'you job is this and that...'
1-Circumstances were not mentioned which lead to the emergence of such outfits.
2-Facts not discussed properly.
3-How consequences were emerged not mentioned.
4-Relationship b/w civil and military not discussed.
5-Entire blame was put up at military.

maza nahi aya.


regards

 

[xyxmt]

The writer of this article seems like a moron who has no idea about psychological warfare, even if armies loose they brag and disinform the enemy to make them think they are loosing, specially in case of decentralized enemy like TTP.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Nah,the entire post was filled with 'questions' and 'you job is this and that...'
1-Circumstances were not mentioned which lead to the emergence of such outfits.
2-Facts not discussed properly.
3-How consequences were emerged not mentioned.
4-Relationship b/w civil and military not discussed.
5-Entire blame was put up at military.

maza nahi aya.


regards

the thing is we suck *** on selling our point of view and that is true for the khakis.

what MK seems to be saying is that some tactical victories in Zarb e Azb have been exaggerated by the Pak military although there is nothing special about that specially when we failed on international forum, negotiations, putting public and politicians on the same page and some inward cleansing after some disasters.

I always lament the apologetic outlook of our military operations.
the way it has to justify its actions to the public seems to me as if its trying to convince itself.
those that have made up their minds and put their weight in the TTP camp would never ever be changed, their comments on social media on APS tragedy and Safura massacre are there for all to see. such people dont need anymore convincing but need to be dealt with like all potent regimes do who value the conservation of their system.

and those that are already convinced dont need to be told anymore its like preaching the converted. we just want more of that specially the urban phase of the operation needs to have started yesterday.

we have chairman senate shedding tears over the implementation of military courts (no high profile hanging yet except handful would be assassins of Musharraf) red mosque cleric openly taunting and mocking the state and the political gangsters in Sindh who are upset over Rangers raids.
dealing with India , America, Saudis and Afghanistan etc is yet another disaster.. and there is no time to moan over the previous lacklustre military leadership because we are still giving up ground.

if we do a fraction of Erdogan on Pakistanis then we might have more stability. I mean in Turkey where you can get charged for treason for farting at the wrong time or failing to show enough enthusiasm towards the awesomeness of Erdogan.

army needs cleansing for its failures and half hearted actions and it needs to open a can of woopass on Pakistan's enemies.

 

[TheNoob]

Pakistan is an Islamic state and its motto is

"jihad fi sabilillah"

I think there is almost no difference between the militants and army, since both of them are fighting for the same motto.

Why would Army kill its strategic assets against India and the world?

Even in Zarb-e-Azab, most of the militants are driven into foreign lands like Afghanistan. Militants have enough time before the operation began.

Considering that most of the army people are sympathetic to militant ideology, the points you have mentioned regarding militants are difficult to implement.

LOL.

I salute your ignorance and logic sir.

--
I'm sorry Mastan, if the military hadn't been talking about how the war is going and how its been good.

Then you'd have a thread saying
"Why isn't the military sharing anything with us, its right for every civillians to know"

Seriously, You need a break...