Zaid Hamid made silent? By who?

[JonAsad]

Most people in Pakistan don't want that, they want a secularized system. Hence in all of Pakistan's elections religious parties have never formed a government in Pakistan.

in my opinion thats the reason that we Pakistani's are suffering we dont want the right system we are astrayed

 

[Old School]

Most people in Pakistan don't want that, they want a secularized system. Hence in all of Pakistan's elections religious parties have never formed a government in Pakistan.

Pakistan has a very large educated population which is now helpless. Illiterate population and undemocratic forces have kept the educated Pakistanis at their mercy. This is very sad. People like Zaid Hamid tries to exploit this equation. Middle age minded people are controlling the economy of Pakistan while the civilized Pakistanis are migrating from their homeland in broken heart.

 

[QADRI]

He denied his relations with Yousuf Kazzab, but not with Yousuf Ali. Hahaha, in his defence, he was technically not lying, since he doesn't consider Yousuf Ali to be a Kazzab and even spoke, and fought in Yousuf Ali's defence.

Do you know one thing bro...very first national anthum of Pakistan, which was approaved by M. A. Jinnah, was writen and composed by a Pakistani Hindu writer,i don't remember his name but you can google it for info. After that in 1950 Hafeez Jalandari wrote a national anthum which is in Farsi Language but again composition was done by a hindu composer. It doesn't matter who is serving your nation, what is his religion or back ground...thing that matters is only that he is doing good for the nation. I agree Zaid Hamid is very agressive,but i am not talking about you, you know better then me, most of our youth is sleeping means they are forgetting their own grounds, so to wake them is a bit difficult job and to do this only agressive person can be sucessful.. i attented his three to four leactures, i personally don't like him to a great extent but at his lectures i was impressed by seeing the courage and love or better to say newly developed courage and love for Pakistan. He mostly suggests books like novels of Naseem Hagazi, Talash, Shahaab nama to the youth and believe i read these books, they are really interesting and informative books....so what i am trying to say is that no matter he is a muslim or non-muslim, thing that matters is that he is doing something good for Pakistan...so let him do.

 

[Awesome]

in my opinion thats the reason that we Pakistani's are suffering we dont want the right system we are astrayed

Actually much of the suffering is due to backwardness of the culture that you're promoting.

1) We don't seek education but deeni taleem
2) We don't teach our kids to be good human beings, but be good Muslims by praying 5 times a day
3) We don't become politically aware by watching the news, we shun away the TV as the Satan's tool
4) We don't treat minorities with kindness, since we believe Islam is perfect everyone else should believe that too
5) We are more outraged at the fact that a girl has had pre-marital sex, but are okay with the rampant corruption everywhere

Koi nahi, koi nahi, Allah sab behtar karega, sab kuch Allah pe chordoh. That is the nizaam-e-Pakistan today, so by which nizam are we suffering?

 

[Kompromat]

Actually much of the suffering is due to backwardness of the culture that you're promoting.

1) We don't seek education but deeni taleem

Not really , its more like a mix of both & most of the the kids attending madrisa are neglegted ones.
BTW Deeni taleem is very Important along with Formal education.

2) We don't teach our kids to be good human beings, but be good Muslims by praying 5 times a day

We do teach our kids to be good human beings and who says praying 5 times a day would make them terrorists ?

3) We don't become politically aware by watching the news, we shun away the TV as the Satan's tool

How many times you see TV sitting on a Junk Bin or thrown in the streets ?
Its not TV which is bad but it is how you use it and only negative aspect of TV is Propegenda on Indian chennals , and BS news.
Otherwise TV is still an effective medium of Information.

4) We don't treat minorities with kindness, since we believe Islam is perfect everyone else should believe that too

Islam is perfect but Muslims are not this is the Problem & i agree that Minorities must must be given Equal opportunities.

5) We are more outraged at the fact that a girl has had pre-marital sex, but are okay with the rampant corruption everywhere

None of Both is acceptable.

Koi nahi, koi nahi, Allah sab behtar karega, sab kuch Allah pe chordoh. That is the nizaam-e-Pakistan today, so by which nizam are we suffering?

I agree that we do say it and it is not Wrong Asim but where it goes wrong is that we "Just say it" we do not "mean it" as Allah bestows his Barkat only if you would do something yourself first.

We need to take advice from this.

Amal se zindagi banti hai Janat bhi Jahanum bhi.
Yeh Khaki apni Fitrat main na Noori hai Na nari hai.

Regards:

 

[JonAsad]

Actually much of the suffering is due to backwardness of the culture that you're promoting.

1) We don't seek education but deeni taleem
2) We don't teach our kids to be good human beings, but be good Muslims by praying 5 times a day
3) We don't become politically aware by watching the news, we shun away the TV as the Satan's tool
4) We don't treat minorities with kindness, since we believe Islam is perfect everyone else should believe that too
5) We are more outraged at the fact that a girl has had pre-marital sex, but are okay with the rampant corruption everywhere

The culture i am promoting is Khilafat and its not backward. This is why i asked ev one to study Khilafat before saying what comes in their minds.


No matter how secular a muslim becomes he must not forget that in the end he has to die and the among the first things which will be asked by the angels will be Namaz.

Deeni taleem is not some thing which we should avoid or be ashamed of to be more secular. Its an obligation the way i see it and what i personally believe is that we are so much opperessed by the western pressure that in order to satisfy them we have accepted to subdue our religious values we dont want khilafat we dont want deeni taleem beacuse to them it will make us suspicious of terrorism.

If you understand the Ruh of Namaz then you will understand that praying five times a day by heart makes you a better Human Being

Now a days even molvi's are coming on TV i dont know if any Muslim house does not have a TV now with full Sky Package if you have said this some half a century ago i would have accepted that partially

Islam is the perfect religion of the word no doubt. Minorities communities which are living with Muslims are more safe than minorities living with non muslims. Some bad apples are every where but generaly speaking have you ever heard a mass massacare of minorities in Pakistan? you have heard it in india, bosnia, chechniya etc so who are more safe? Muslim minorities in the World of Non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries.. hell they had even banned hijaab veil in europe.. dare ban covering of heads of nuns in Muslim countries.

I really dont know what your preferences are but for me as a Muslim adultery has more dire consequences. on the scale of punishment if both are happening in front of me i will be more outraged at adultery than corruption. Both are bad and haram in Islam any how and both cannot be compared.

Koi nahi, koi nahi, Allah sab behtar karega, sab kuch Allah pe chordoh. That is the nizaam-e-Pakistan today, so by which nizam are we suffering?

i will say the same thing i have said before we are suffering because we are astrayed from pure Islamic Nizam so we are suffering from Nizam-e-Pakistan if you call it this.


No matter how secular a muslim becomes he must not forget that in the end he has to die and he will be asked what he believed in. By denying that only People of this world are we satisfying not the Creator.

 

[blueoval79]

Actually much of the suffering is due to backwardness of the culture that you're promoting.

1) We don't seek education but deeni taleem
2) We don't teach our kids to be good human beings, but be good Muslims by praying 5 times a day
3) We don't become politically aware by watching the news, we shun away the TV as the Satan's tool
4) We don't treat minorities with kindness, since we believe Islam is perfect everyone else should believe that too
5) We are more outraged at the fact that a girl has had pre-marital sex, but are okay with the rampant corruption everywhere

Koi nahi, koi nahi, Allah sab behtar karega, sab kuch Allah pe chordoh. That is the nizaam-e-Pakistan today, so by which nizam are we suffering?

Like the clarity of thought......All I would like to add is ...."Religion is not the life...its a part of life",

 

[Aamir Hussain]

To me Zaid Hamid looks like a plant by the agencies to continue the Islamist agenda with a new spin -- a more modern, softer approach, with Pakistan specific agenda instead of Muslim Ummah based agenda. Allama Iqbal has been used as a garnish to give this new jihad a more national appeal.

The old wild Jihadi/Quasi Taliban has been dumped and a new more modern-more Pakistan specific crop of young idealistic Pakistanis are being prepared through this charismatic orator to continue the Jihadi agenda and a ready supply of cannon fodder is being prepared.

It has ISI stamp on it - the constant air time on TV One-- known for establishment affiliations -- a person who in his student days was recruited by ISI to fight in Afghanistan etc. All the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to me smell of another attempt by ISI to continue the Kashmir/Afghanistan agenda but with a more sophisticated crop of new Jihadis!!!!!!

 

[Old School]

To me Zaid Hamid looks like a plant by the agencies to continue the Islamist agenda with a new spin -- a more modern, softer approach, with Pakistan specific agenda instead of Muslim Ummah based agenda. Allama Iqbal has been used as a garnish to give this new jihad a more national appeal.

The old wild Jihadi/Quasi Taliban has been dumped and a new more modern-more Pakistan specific crop of young idealistic Pakistanis are being prepared through this charismatic orator to continue the Jihadi agenda and a ready supply of cannon fodder is being prepared.

It has ISI stamp on it - the constant air time on TV One-- known for establishment affiliations -- a person who in his student days was recruited by ISI to fight in Afghanistan etc. All the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to me smell of another attempt by ISI to continue the Kashmir/Afghanistan agenda but with a more sophisticated crop of new Jihadis!!!!!!

You have rightly spotted. ISI has become a Frankenstein's monster for us. It has become a 'Deep State' , a state within a state. Instead of securing our national security , they have put our national security at clear and present danger. One needs to have in depth knowledge of the last 40 years to clearly understand the nature and evolution of the Directorate ISI. Zaid Hamid is just a tool among many more.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

You have rightly spotted. ISI has become a Frankenstein's monster for us. It has become a 'Deep State' , a state within a state. Instead of securing our national security , they have put our national security at clear and present danger. One needs to have in depth knowledge of the last 40 years to clearly understand the nature and evolution of the Directorate ISI. Zaid Hamid is just a tool among many more.

Unfortunately, except for the upper echelons of the agency all other officers on loan are mid-yorker stuff/discard from units that could do without them. This puts the quality of humint coming in to the decision maker’s susceptible to below average assessments from the field. The result the same old formulae repeated again and again. There is very little original thinking or assessment.

On top of all this the Generals and Brigadiers at the helm of affairs in ISI think from the military perspective on national strategic issues and address them accordingly on a relatively simplistic lines of black and white.

ISI has a relatively good setup but needs a more cogent national direction on matters of strategic importance (not necessarily military related but economic, trade, technology etc.) What is needed is strong think tanks sponsored by the government and independent universities (can be remotely sponsored by the GoP) where think tanks are commissioned by the government to assess overall or specific strategic issues. Based upon these input the government can than project a comprehensive international, domestic and economic direction with the foreign, finance, and security agencies working on the same agenda but from different angles.

Unfortunately, till very recently most of the major thrust of the agency seemd to be directed by the mentality of a subedar in the field.

 

[JonAsad]

ISI is bad just because the World says its Bad, Just like Deeni Taleem is bad, beard is bad, veil is bad just because Western ppl say its Bad... man hv some individuality and stand for your culture mate.. Dont forget your culture just to be accepted in this world.. We are getting hopeless arent we???

If ISI is bad i dont think RAW, Mosad or CIA are saint either...

 

[Old School]

Unfortunately, except for the upper echelons of the agency all other officers on loan are mid-yorker stuff/discard from units that could do without them. This puts the quality of humint coming in to the decision maker’s susceptible to below average assessments from the field. The result the same old formulae repeated again and again. There is very little original thinking or assessment.

On top of all this the Generals and Brigadiers at the helm of affairs in ISI think from the military perspective on national strategic issues and address them accordingly on a relatively simplistic lines of black and white.

ISI has a relatively good setup but needs a more cogent national direction on matters of strategic importance (not necessarily military related but economic, trade, technology etc.) What is needed is strong think tanks sponsored by the government and independent universities (can be remotely sponsored by the GoP) where think tanks are commissioned by the government to assess overall or specific strategic issues. Based upon these input the government can than project a comprehensive international, domestic and economic direction with the foreign, finance, and security agencies working on the same agenda but from different angles.

Unfortunately, till very recently most of the major thrust of the agency seemd to be directed by the mentality of a subedar in the field.

In term of manpower and resources , ISI belongs to the top 5 similar organization in the world. The directors with in the ISI often have their own agendas other than the requirement set by the higher echelon. These directors work without a structured supervision from the defence and government high ups. The DG ISI keeps his own team sidelining other directors. Therefore, the discipline and a well structured command and control is absent at the Directorate ISI.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

In term of manpower and resources , ISI belongs to the top 5 similar organization in the world. The directors with in the ISI often have their own agendas other than the requirement set by the higher echelon. These directors work without a structured supervision from the defence and government high ups. The DG ISI keeps his own team sidelining other directors. Therefore, the discipline and a well structured command and control is absent at the Directorate ISI.

I agree with your assessment. However, any agency or ministerial actions are dictated by the overall strategy and direction set by the GoP. This is what is missing. Therefore, the tendency to use one’s own discretion in their own little directorates. Due to the very nature of their work, the agency directorate’s work in silos -- there is no oversight structure even within the agency. Therefore, it is free for all as you have pointed out.

The national strategic direction is just not there. Governments can come and go but the overarching strategic imperative should remain intact.

The US -- India policy was actually debated, and polished up in the late seventies based upon assessments and scenarios presented by various think tanks. Geopolitical landscape kept changing in this part of the world since then, various US governments came and went but policy objectives remained intact and when the time came -- they started working on that policy.

We have one of the best intelligence agencies but a trash policy. We have the tools but do not know where to and how to use them for long term results.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

We have one of the best intelligence agencies but a trash policy. We have the tools but do not know where to and how to use them for long term results.

Mercedes without an engine is useless. You cannot say that we have one of the best intelligence agency but a trash policy.
It is a contradiction in itself.
You could say that we have one of the best individuals in the agency but because of the trash policy of the government and army itself, we are unable to cross the previous boundaries.

Governments can come and go but the overarching strategic imperative should remain intact.
Current politicians (many of them) are incompetent while some generals should learn to walk on the ground. It takes 2 hands to clap.

various US governments came and went but policy objectives remained intact and when the time came -- they started working on that policy.
They have smart brains. We are chamchas..
Should I say anything more? OR you can go over the history of Marshal Laws etc the reasons behind it...

Pakistan and the U.S. cannot be compared at any level. The computer you are writing from is not the invention of Pakistan.

Anyways, good thoughts but it will take decades to teach Pakistani people about the meaning of life (other than hell and heaven) and the way to survive in ever changing world.

 

[Old School]

but it will take decades to teach Pakistani people about the meaning of life (other than hell and heaven) and the way to survive in ever changing world.

There are so many things in life other than heaven and hell that the definition of life can be as expandable as infinity. Our Pakistan which we love , is not going to change unless our people start to take the fair shares of their responsibilities instead of blaming government for their misfortune. Government can not not visit door to door to see who are not cleaning their trashes from their back yard.