Featured Zaheer Ahmad Babar appointed new Chief of Pakistan Air Force

[Clairvoyant]

Remember, if the Indians actually caused some damage, then we would've shot down all 9 jets locked and destroyed every one of the six ground targets including the one their COAS was in. I hope PAF has learned their lesson from 26th Feb and will be prepared to repel such incursions in the future though, especially considering Indians have long range SOWs which they could use to strike deep into our relatively narrow territory.

Even if we had shot down all their CAP's on 27th February would that have washed our failures on the night of 26th,don't think so.

On a side note most people in here were rooting for AM Paracha for his celebrity like status. They forget the fact that at the top level atleast in the Airforce most officers are almost of the same calibre, I would prefer having someone as the boss whose is doing his job the right way behind the curtains. Also do keep in mind the opinion of the outgoing chief matters a lot in choosing the new boss so there must have been a solid reason why the new boss was prefered over others.

I sincerely hope the drama of a past VCAS is not repeated where he believed he was the right candidate for the CAS post and upon not getting selected went public with his grief, turned out he was known to have panic attacks.

 

[Tps43]

Anwar Shamim

Farooq feroz khan as cjsc

 

[Air Wolf]

@PanzerKiel

OMG....it's sad, very sad. Knowing "we couldn't" is not as painful as "we could but we didn't despite the clearance". We can only hope that introspection will ensure this doesn't happen again...ever.

 

[araz]

Even if we had shot down all their CAP's on 27th February does that wash our failure on the night of 26th,don't think so.

On a side note most people in here were rooting for AM Paracha for his celebrity like status. They forget the fact that at the top level atleast in the Airforce most officers are almost of the same calibre, I would prefer having someone as the boss whose is doing his job the right way behind the curtains. Also do keep in mind the opinion of the outgoing chief matters a lot in choosing the new boss so there must have been a solid reason why the new boss was prefered over others.

I sincerely hope the drama of a past VCAS is not repeated where he believed he was the right candidate for the CAS post and upon not getting selected went public with his grief, turned out he was known to have panic attacks.

Let the past lie. Let it be known that the best man got the job and let the nation get behind him and his team100%. We need to celebrate and congratulate the new chief on his selection.
As to HP he is an icon and will remain one irrespective. Sometimes the best dont make the grade but so be it. He is VCAS and we should be happy. As long as he plays the team game we should see PAF scaling newer heights.
A

 

[Reichmarshal]

By virtue of his appointment... It might seem that way.... However, I would disagree here.

DCAS Ops is roughly equivalent to army's DG MO and CGS.... But the policy always comes from the top, meaning COAS and CAS..... These under command appointments then implement that policy....

It's just like.... For a military defeat, we exonerate COAS or CAS, and punish DCAS, DG MO or CGS.....

.... In order words, whatever PAF or AM HP did, or didnt manage to do on 26 Feb, wasn't against CAS orders... It can't happen that you do something which is against the given policy of CAS.....

... And believe me, in the time between post IAF and pre PAF strike, the bone of contention was exactly this same thing.... That why the intruding IAF jets weren't shot down despite very clear orders from our PM.

@araz @Air Wolf

Sir jee iaf was constantly probing our defences just like PAF and on the night of the iaf intrusion they had more "packages" in the air than we had caps. They as a diversion tried to attack us at four places all long our border from south to north. We thwarted them at 3 places but they found a gap in our defence in the northern sector. As that cap had been vectored to stop the package from attacking sialkot. The flight of mirage 2000 who attacked jaba top went in unchallenged....PAF was so stretched that it had to scramble ADA jets.
I have no info on the iaf ac being fired on or not. By our boys on the 26th as by the time our jets got their the iaf ac were already gone well inside indian airspace. So firing bvrm on the intruders was pointless as to get in range PAF would have to cross into india n give chase and that would have been suicide as the mirages were being given top cover by mki and they were lying I wait.
Now it is the job of DCAS to make sure somthing like this does not happen, simply by the virtue of his appointment.
Now to put it in perspective we got back at the iaf exactly in the same manner....they were fully active the whole day and night after their intrusion and in the morning when they lowered their guard just slightly PAF pounced and beat the crap out of them.
For this mistake iaf sacked the AM responsible for it all.
AM Haseeb was guilty of the same mistake, it's just that he made for it the the 27th. I am sure had the indian AM been given another chance he too would have redeemed him self.

 

[Raider 21]

Let the past lie. Let it be known that the best man got the job and let the nation get behind him and his team100%. We need to celebrate and congratulate the new chief on his selection.
As to HP he is an icon and will remain one irrespective. Sometimes the best dont make the grade but so be it. He is VCAS and we should be happy. As long as he plays the team game we should see PAF scaling newer heights.
A

Haseeb is not VCAS. Ahmar Laghari is still VCAS. The new CAS will pick a VCAS. PM doesn't not pick one.

 

[Reichmarshal]

And for breaking up the so called f16 mafia, three of the last 2 CAS were mirage drivers.

If AM Haseeb is indeed appointed as VCAS than don't see it lasting more than 6 months as the new CAS would like his man to be VCAS as this is his purgative.
Plus AM Haseeb has had an exceptional career and the new CAS would always feel over odd as long as AM Haseeb is his VCAS.

 

[arjunk]

three of the last 2 CAS were mirage drivers.

?

 

[araz]

Haseeb is not VCAS. Ahmar Laghari is still VCAS. The new CAS will pick a VCAS. PM doesn't not pick one.

Thank you for the correction.
Kind regards
A

 

[ghazi52]

Thank You for your Service

May Allah Bless You Always… AMEEN

اللّٰہ حافظ

 

[Inception-06]

I remember everyone in my office on that day was asking for ACM's resignation. Morale was extremely low until the next morning.

Was it a civilian office ?

 

[Inception-06]

Sir jee iaf was constantly probing our defences just like PAF and on the night of the iaf intrusion they had more "packages" in the air than we had caps. They as a diversion tried to attack us at four places all long our border from south to north. We thwarted them at 3 places but they found a gap in our defence in the northern sector. As that cap had been vectored to stop the package from attacking sialkot. The flight of mirage 2000 who attacked jaba top went in unchallenged....PAF was so stretched that it had to scramble ADA jets.
I have no info on the iaf ac being fired on or not. By our boys on the 26th as by the time our jets got their the iaf ac were already gone well inside indian airspace. So firing bvrm on the intruders was pointless as to get in range PAF would have to cross into india n give chase and that would have been suicide as the mirages were being given top cover by mki and they were lying I wait.
Now it is the job of DCAS to make sure somthing like this does not happen, simply by the virtue of his appointment.
Now to put it in perspective we got back at the iaf exactly in the same manner....they were fully active the whole day and night after their intrusion and in the morning when they lowered their guard just slightly PAF pounced and beat the crap out of them.
For this mistake iaf sacked the AM responsible for it all.
AM Haseeb was guilty of the same mistake, it's just that he made for it the the 27th. I am sure had the indian AM been given another chance he too would have redeemed him self.

Overstretched ? Not enough CAPS, Sir what we do then in a war ?

 

[AMRAAM]

Was it a civilian office ?

Yep. That was a sad day and at least I couldn't do any work on that day.

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

Is flying hours in a specific fighter plane per se the most important element for being a good / great leader for an Airforce?

I have studied leadership in the last couple of years and it´s a very interesting subject. What does make a person a great leader? This is not an easy question to answer. Some elements are although important. One is being able to motivate your team and the second is making a clear vision and in connection with that having a clear strategy worked out with your staff (down to the person on the flor actually doing the production / on the flor). Many discussion is done on the subject of whether one need to know the area/specialty/field in detail to be a good/great leader ie do you need to be a surgeon to lead surgeons / a nurse to lead nurses / be a pilot to lead an airline / be a pilot to lead an Airforce / be a solider to lead an army and so on. When you take leadership courses the class consist of potential leaders from very different areas and fields - so to lead other persons have some common elements regardless of the area and field. Never the less my opinion is that you would need a person from that particular field to lead other persons - why? You are leading highly competent and professional people and if they feel that you don´t understand them or you don´t get their point or you don´t understand the field in detail you will lose the legitimacy of being their leader. Leading is both ways - you can only lead those who will let you lead - and we all need a leader. So if you come from another field and what you are doing some necessary and needed changes in the organization nobody will follow you cause you are not "one of them".
So in my opinion to be a great leader you need to be from the field, knowing the area in details, have the mental capacity, be able to motivate and cultivate people and teams, being able to spot the right person for the right job (and as a CEO you need to be able to spot the right team leader / department leader).
Getting back to the argument about flying hours - this is the same to say that a particular surgeon can only be a good leader if the surgeon has done x number of procedures, or the mechanic can only be a good leader if he has fixed x numbers of cars or a police officer can only be leader of the police department if the police officer has arrested x numbers of criminals. No doubt that numbers do count to tell if you are a good professional. I would rather have my operation done by a surgeon with 1000 procedures than the one who has only done one (although the surgeon with 1000 procedures also started with one). But having only this particular element as THE ONLY CRITERIA from what you judge whether a person is a good leader or are suited for the job or not is outright WRONG.

Sorry for the long post - but you may hopefully from this get my point. Persons stating that Zaheer Ahmad Babar is not at good choice just because he does not have x flying hours or did not flew a particular fighter plane are looking at one element that per se do not tell whether he is / will be the best choice - this my friends only time will tell.

 

[Mr.Cringeworth]

like I said in my earlier post that most of us are not in the know but one thing I know that the no. of PAF AM and former chiefs in the office of the CAS in the morning after the indian intrusion was something to behold and the slug match that insured that was scary and everyone wanted the person at fault removed and court-martialed. AM Haseeb was being considered the person at fault.
But wt saved him was his response and his actions in leading from the front operation swift retort. But did get a slap on the wrist.

in one of my posts above, i mentioned the fact that the CAS advises the PM who is the most suitable person for the job of CAS.

So you're saying former chiefs were called as well? Even though they were not in the know how anymore please elaborate.