Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?

[HRK]

What these two are doing hanging outside .....

 

[Asian.Century]

I dont have access to the full article but it looks like the T129 is nearly a done deal now. Interesting tid bit about the Anka UAV. If I am reading it correctly PAC has been contracted to build the airframes. I wonder if the T129 deal could pave the way for co production of Turkey's Indigenous Helicopter Program if and when it materialises. We really do need to bolster our utility/transport/airborne assault helo fleet. Pakistan to collaborate with Turkey on T-129...great news.

Pakistan will choose T-129 attack helicopter, the Pakistani variant name is yet to be decided yet.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has signed a work share agreement with Turkish Aerospace Industries, paving the way for any future Pakistani purchase of the T-129 attack helicopter.

‘TAI has contracted us to build frames for their Anka UAV, while we are also looking forward to collaborating with them ...


http://www.shephardm...e-turkey-t-129/

 

[Nishan_101]

Although nothing come close to Z-10s...

 

[nomi007]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Manufacturing Country: United States of America
Company : Bell Helicopters
Cost $31 Million per unit
First Flight 2000
Primarily Used by United States Military Corps
Derived from AH-1 SuperCobra

Weight 5580 KG
Carry Load 2600 KG

Engines 2 Units (1800 x 2)
4 Blade Rotor

Cruise Speed 298 km/hr
Never Exceed Speed 411km /hr in a dive

Range 685 KM
Range with Payload

Ceiling 6100 Meters
Climb rate 14.2 meters / second

Gun -> Gatling Gun 750 rounds

Hard points up to 6

Rocket Option 1: LAU-G1D/A (19 launches)
Rocket Option 2: Hydra (70 launches)
Rocket Option 3: LAU-68C/A (7 launches)
Missile 2 each side: Air to Air Side Winder Two Missiles
Rocket Option 6: Hell Fire Missiles 16

Manufacturing Country: Turkey
Company : Turkish Aero Space Industries
Cost $27 Million per unit
First Flight 2009
Primarily Used by Turkish Army
Derived from Agusta 129
Length 13.45 Meters

Weight 3000 KG
Carry Load 2000 KG

Engines 2 Units (1361 x 2)
5 Blade Rotor

Cruise Speed 269 km/hr
Never Exceed Speed 350km /hr in a dive

Range 561 KM

Ceiling 6096 Meters
Climb rate 14.0 meters / second

Gun -> Gatling Gun 500 rounds


Rocket Option 1: 38 x 18 mm Unguided Rockets
Rocket Option 2: 75 x 2 inch Un Guided Rockets
Rocket Option 3: Machine Gun
Missile 4 each side: Up to 4 Air to Air Sidewinder Missiles
Rocket Option 6: Hell Fire 8




Conclusion:
Technical Edge for Vipers
The Viper offers a better weapons selection and more technologically advance weapons arrays and more quantity if Pakistan aims to get these in 2015. The Vipers are also better in term of range and horizontal speed and payload. If a viper was being chased by T-129 the Viper would likely outrun the T-129 easily

Could come with USAid program to upgrade allied military.

We could get a package of 36 Helicopters in 2015 its quite possible but time will tell

One could argue considering how much mileage Pakistani Cobras have took for operations in support of US in last 3-4 years not to mentions losses it would be justified process to attain 36-40 Gun Ships as part of USAid Package in 2015

T-129 Decent Helicopter better then what Pakistan has now and not just a fill gap solution but its a "Real Solution"
However the T-129 , Turkish Helicopters do match the Vipers on vertical climb rate and ability to provide serious fire power and protection for Tanks etc. The Range do cover a lot of ground, almost 500 km almost covers most of Pakistan's coastal areas Patrol

The T-129 Appears to also offer good support against fighter jets as they carry Anti fighter jet missiles.



Transfer of Technology and Mass Production Option:
The choice of Mass production would certainly tilt the favor in for T-129 no doubt imagine 200-250 Helicopters protecting Military vehicles , cities and borders with no strings attached deal great choice.

The T-129 might not match the Viper in term of fire power , missile by missile or Technology however , it would offer 65-75% capabilities in term of fire power

Perhaps you can argue with , little maturity and future upgrades the gap would bridge between T-129 and Viper.

And also with mass production line , Pakistan could make 2-3 Units to make up slight variance.

Great Resource against Anti Terrorist Activities:
Does not matters if its the Vipers or T-129 both copters would offer a stern support to help destroy Terrorist safe heavens across borders weather they be in india or Afghanistan.

The mountainous regions and forest will not offer more refuge to hit and run tactics as the Attack helicopters aided with UAV surveillance offer a deadly combination against hit and run tactics used by terrorist

The biggest gain would be that Pakistan would be able to better Patrol , mountains and remote areas of country (Baluchistan remote areas, Mountains , Afghan - Pakistan border areas).

Looking from the close cooperation between Turkey and Pakistan its quite possible that T-129 will be becoming a major part of Pakistani Military Aviation Corp

It remains also to be seen what the Military Chief recommends for his Military Units. I am sure the Military Leader will certainly favor improving the Military Aviation Corp from its present state.

Since Honorable Musharraf sahib left , we have not seen a major acquisition to truly boost the moral of forces and I hope under the new leadership we will get some much needed improvement in forces.

The two areas

a) Pakistan Aviation Corp improvements by adding new Attack / Transport Helicopters

b) Frigates & Submarines for Navy

Would certainly bring Pakistan to a great landmark and push the capabilities of the forces to a whole new level.

 

[Kompromat]

It will be T-129...

Viper isn't available yet.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I found the performance matrices for the T-129 very respectable comparing it with that of the Viper
from Pakistan's need for Military Support , special Tank and Personnel support the T-129 promises to be a great platform that can serve the needs for 15-18 years for Pakistani forces

However , we must also respect the performance for the Vipers and if we had option to induct
36-40 Vipers , and 80 T129 , would be a great addition.

The T129 does lacks in term of speed (Horizontal) and Payload capacity how much weapons it can take and unleash it on enemies. But not that the stuff it carries is not enough , there is enough firepower to take out 30-40 Tanks and few armored personnel carriers and 100-200 soldiers

If you imagine scenario , 200-800 Al Khalid Tanks , support in air by 100 T-129 that is a very respectable force , balanced and enough deterrence to discourage any misadventure

 

[Zarvan]

It will be T-129...

Viper isn't available yet.

we need to go for both helicopters and Frigates and Corvettes from Turkey USA can't be trusted and even if we have money we still should go for Turkey one because it is a friend second it can be trusted and third we if want can get with TOT

 

[Kompromat]

@cabatli_53

Can/will ATAK carry AIM-9's?

 

[alimobin memon]

The order of Attack choppers will be atleast 100 I think as there will be many parts build in pakistan. As far as I know Pakistan armed forces upgradation is not only backed by its budget for a year but High Profile personalities are also backing up.

 

[Zarvan]

The order of Attack choppers will be atleast 100 I think as there will be many parts build in pakistan. As far as I know Pakistan armed forces upgradation is not only backed by its budget for a year but High Profile personalities are also backing up.

I don't know personalities but I think we are taking help from Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey and others we had to no option left because our economy is not improving and our enemy is getting bigger and bigger and as far numbers no it would be maximum 60

 

[hussain0216]

It will be T-129 with TOT

The tot will help with unit cost & will give us vital insight on how to build and maintain such platforms

For Pakistan I think 100 is a minimum we require


If the U.S however gives us vipers under the aid bill free then thats tough to refuse

 

[Ra'ad]

T-129 is daaaa bessst option!
how??

1. T-129 is comparable/equal to the viper,
2. T-129 is the first block/type while viper is a heavily upgraded version of ah-1,
3. T-129 is better logistical, financial wise than viper due to Tot, no US factor.
4. T-129 has 2 versions both of which are very suitable to our needs and it can be further customised for our needs which might not happen for viper.

And just like we can't say lets ditch thunder for F-16 Bk52 just bcoz Bk52 is better, the same applies to T-129 and viper. The thunder will be heavily upgraded in the coming blocks and so will be T-129 coz they're just the first blocks. They have a future whereas the same can't be said for AH-1, as US might replace it with AH-64 or another under-dev alternative soon.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The rate of climb , max height was very comparable

The rage difference is large however for Pakistan even a 500km Helo is great for our needs
We could in essence have patrols all across the Karachi - Balouchistan Gawadar area with the helo

Plus some combination with UAV in few areas

The contributions to security with attaining these helo would be tremendous.

As helicopters could capture Terrorist escaping on Vans / Turks in remote areas

Not to mention special missions where terrorist may be hiding in garrisoned buildings etc

The viper is a powerful bird , no question about its capabilities but for Pakistan the T-129 is a major boost for our Forces defensive needs

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53

Can/will ATAK carry AIM-9's?

It is about integration of different missiles/devices into mission computer of copter. Since mission computer was developed by Aselsan, We can integrate whatever we want bro...

Stinger, Igla, Domestic AA missile...etc

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About Fire Power of copter,

20mm munition: 600
12 Mizrak-U (Javelin-L aka Umtas)

I think Such numbers will provide FP enough to counter many different enemy assets for a light attack copter.