Z-10 or T-129 Atak or AH-1Z for the Pakistan Army?
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airomerix
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Instant support is one thing. Manning those helos in an event of war is another. Who will fly them?
Neptune
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The fact is, we will fight among with our brothers instead of providing the so-called stuff. Pls don't fuvck up the thread.
Both China and Turkey are reliable and close enough to Pakistan to provide support at any time, any place.
nomi007
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Pakistan has been awarded US $300 million in foreign military financing for FY2013-2014,
which could be used to procure the Viper attack helicopters ah-1z , made by Bell.
what i say
no words
nice move by usa
hahahahahahhaha
which could be used to procure the Viper attack helicopters ah-1z , made by Bell.
what i say
no words
nice move by usa
hahahahahahhaha
Tameem
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nomi007
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HumanJinn
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T129 ATAK and CAIC WZ-10, Military Helicopter specs comparison
Chinese wz10 attack helicopter showing Jump reverses, Laiweisiman turn
Is Chinese WZ-10 Attack Helicopter, Good for PAF?
The WZ-10 (WZ, 武直 = Wuzhuang Zhishengji, 武装直升机, literally "Armed Helicopter") is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but has secondary air-to-air capability as well. It is being designed and built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC).
Nicknames of characters in the Chinese classic novel Water Margin was used to name WZ-10 and its smaller comrade Harbin Z-19: WZ-10 is named as Fierce Thunderbolt (Pi Li Huo, 霹靂火), the nickname of Qin Ming, while WZ-19 is named as Black Whirlwind (Hei Xuan Feng, 黑旋風), the nickname of Li Kui
WZ-10
A WZ-10 displaying at 2012 China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition
Role Attack helicopter
Manufacturer Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
Designer Wu Ximing
First flight 29 April 2003
Introduction December 2010
Status In service
Primary user People's Liberation Army
Number built 60 (as of 2013)
Role: Attack helicopter
Manufacturer: Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
First flight: 29 April 2003
The WZ-10 is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but is believed to have a secondary air-to-air capability as well. It is being built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
Specifications:
General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 14.15 m (ft)
Rotor diameter: 13.0 m [4] (ft)
Height: 3.85 m (ft)
Disc area: m² (ft²)
Empty weight: 5540 kg [4] (lb)
Loaded weight: kg (lb)
Useful load: 1500 kg [4] (lb)
Max takeoff weight: 7000 kg (lb)
Powerplant: 2× WZ-9 turboshafts [4], 957 kw (1285 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 300+ km/h [4]
Cruise speed: 270+ km/h [4]
Ferry range: 800+ km [4] ()
Service ceiling: 6400 m (ft)
Rate of climb: over 12+ m/s [4] (ft/min)
Disc loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Maximum acceleration: +3 g (29 m/s²)
Armament
Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret
Hardpoints: 4
*Other:
Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
Air-to-surface missiles: Up to 8 ATGM
Air-to-air missiles:
Up to 8 TY-90
Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9
Avionics
YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
YH-96 electronic warfare suite
TAI/AgustaWestland T129
The TAI/AgustaWestland T129 is an attack helicopter developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), with AgustaWestland as the primary partner, using the Agusta A129 Mangusta as a base model. It is currently in use by the Turkish Army
T129
An Agusta A129 Mangusta at Air 04, Payerne, Switzerland. The T129 looks very similar
Specifications (T129)
General characteristics
Performance
Role Attack helicopter
National origin Italy / Turkey
Manufacturer Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) / AgustaWestland
First flight 28 September 2009
Introduction 2013
Status Testing/training
Primary user Turkish Army
Number built 6 prototypes
Program cost US$3.2 billion
Agusta A129 Mangusta
Agusta A129 Mangusta
Chinese wz10 attack helicopter showing Jump reverses, Laiweisiman turn
Is Chinese WZ-10 Attack Helicopter, Good for PAF?
The WZ-10 (WZ, 武直 = Wuzhuang Zhishengji, 武装直升机, literally "Armed Helicopter") is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but has secondary air-to-air capability as well. It is being designed and built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC).
Nicknames of characters in the Chinese classic novel Water Margin was used to name WZ-10 and its smaller comrade Harbin Z-19: WZ-10 is named as Fierce Thunderbolt (Pi Li Huo, 霹靂火), the nickname of Qin Ming, while WZ-19 is named as Black Whirlwind (Hei Xuan Feng, 黑旋風), the nickname of Li Kui
WZ-10
A WZ-10 displaying at 2012 China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition
Role Attack helicopter
Manufacturer Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
Designer Wu Ximing
First flight 29 April 2003
Introduction December 2010
Status In service
Primary user People's Liberation Army
Number built 60 (as of 2013)
Role: Attack helicopter
Manufacturer: Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
First flight: 29 April 2003
The WZ-10 is an attack helicopter developed by the People's Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank missions but is believed to have a secondary air-to-air capability as well. It is being built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)
Specifications:
General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 14.15 m (ft)
Rotor diameter: 13.0 m [4] (ft)
Height: 3.85 m (ft)
Disc area: m² (ft²)
Empty weight: 5540 kg [4] (lb)
Loaded weight: kg (lb)
Useful load: 1500 kg [4] (lb)
Max takeoff weight: 7000 kg (lb)
Powerplant: 2× WZ-9 turboshafts [4], 957 kw (1285 hp) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 300+ km/h [4]
Cruise speed: 270+ km/h [4]
Ferry range: 800+ km [4] ()
Service ceiling: 6400 m (ft)
Rate of climb: over 12+ m/s [4] (ft/min)
Disc loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Maximum acceleration: +3 g (29 m/s²)
Armament
Guns: 23 mm or 30 mm autocannon mounted on chin turret
Hardpoints: 4
*Other:
Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm multi-barrel unguided rocket pods
Air-to-surface missiles: Up to 8 ATGM
Air-to-air missiles:
Up to 8 TY-90
Up to 4 PL-5, PL-7, PL-9
Avionics
YH millimetre-wave fire-control radar
YH-96 electronic warfare suite
TAI/AgustaWestland T129
The TAI/AgustaWestland T129 is an attack helicopter developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), with AgustaWestland as the primary partner, using the Agusta A129 Mangusta as a base model. It is currently in use by the Turkish Army
T129
An Agusta A129 Mangusta at Air 04, Payerne, Switzerland. The T129 looks very similar
Specifications (T129)
General characteristics
- Crew: 2: pilot and co-pilot/gunner
- Length: 13.45 m (44 ft 1 in)
- Rotor diameter: 11.90 m (39 ft 0 in)
- Height: 3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)
- Disc area: 111.22 m² (1,197.25 ft²)
- Max. takeoff weight: 5,000 kg (11,023 lb)
- Powerplant: 2 × LHTEC CTS800-4A turboshaft, 1,014 kW (1,361 shp) each
- Rotor systems: 5 blades on main rotor
Performance
- Maximum speed: 278 km/h (151 knots, 174 mph)
- Cruise speed: 269 km/h (145 knots, 167 mph)
- Range: 561 km (303 nmi, 341 mi)
- Ferry range: 1,000 km(540 nmi, 620 mi)
- Service ceiling: 6,096 m (20,000 ft)
- Rate of climb: 14.0 m/s (2,750 ft/min)
- Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) three-barrel gatling-type cannon (500 rounds)
- Rockets: 4 pods with
- 38× 81 mm (3.19 in) unguided rockets or
- 76× 70 mm (2.75 in) unguided rockets or
- 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun pod
- Missiles:
- 8× AGM-114 Hellfire, BGM-71 TOW, Hydra 70, Spike-ER, UMTAS, anti-tank and anti-armor missiles and Sura D/Snora.
- 12x Roketsan Cirit
- 2× AIM-92 Stinger or Mistral or AIM-9 Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles
National origin Italy / Turkey
Manufacturer Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) / AgustaWestland
First flight 28 September 2009
Introduction 2013
Status Testing/training
Primary user Turkish Army
Number built 6 prototypes
Program cost US$3.2 billion
Agusta A129 Mangusta
Agusta A129 Mangusta
nomi007
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T129, The best replacement for AH-1
Aerospcace & Defense, 11 March 2013
POWER INTERVIEW
"T129, The best replacement for AH-1"
Muharrem DORTKASLI
President & CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI)
" The T129 is a helicopter with the optimal balance between a spear and shield."
It is a mention of President Dortkasli about the T129, who is visiting Korea amid the selection of the AH-X is upcoming. He introduced the T129 that combines the lessons learned over a conflict in the southeastern border over 20 years. TAI is negotiating more flexible offset under condition of DCS and cheaper price comparing to other competitors.
This is an interview with President Dortkasli
Q I've been told that you've visited Korea for offset negotiation. How is it progressing and what is a further schedule?
We are trying to take DARPA's requirement as possible as we can. We are in a negotiation with an emphasis on increasing the domestic production rate for Korean industry and technology transfer. TAI has been closely cooperated with KAI for a long time over the KT-1T Program. Currently Turkish army is introducing the T129. Korean army is also on track for the LAH (Light Attack Helicopter) Program as well as the AH-X. So this will be a good opportunity to enhance cooperation relationship and development of defense industry among two nations.
Q In the competition for the MOH(Maritime Operations Helicopter) Program, AW159 was chosen, which had a higher price competitiveness over the MH-60R, which had been considered the most potent. It was accepted as a surprise, how do you think about the results of the MOH Program?
The meaningful point is that Agustawestland won on DCS term. I think this can be a turning point for further defense programs in Korea.
Q It has been pointed out that the performance of the T129 is inferior to a leading competitor AH-64. What's your view on this?
The AH-64, and T129 is within different categories in terms of a targeting performance. So one-to-one comparison between them is undesirable.
I want to compare the T129 "a warrior with spear and shield". The chopper took the optimal balance between a size for having an affordable payload/performance and light weight design for survivability/self-protection. Having two high performance CTS 800 engines that are co-developed by Honeywell and Rolls-Royce for the U.S Army's cutting-edge RAH-66 Comanche, the T129 can maintain with a same flight performance regardless any altitude up to 18,000ft or any surrounding temperature.
Also its compact size makes the T129 significantly low-observable by vision and radar, low-acoustic, low-heat emitting.
In addition, the CTS 800 engine is basically identical one of the AW159 selected in the MOH program, the T129 has become more advantageous in terms of cost and logistic support.
Q What is the competitiveness of the T129 in the AH-X?
The AH-X considers many factors such as an airframe price, offset, and performance met. Nothing is trifling element of all of this. However, the factor that has the greatest effect on the selection would eventually become "price" including an offset. T129 can have the maximum advantage on that point.
Q What do you think about the benefits in case of that the Korean Army deploy the T129?
As well as South Korea, Turkish Army has been operating AH-1 for a long time, and has involved ongoing conflict in the southeastern region. The AH-1 has brought abundant combat experience and invaluable lessons, and we could get essential things to operate an attack helicopter. So we developed the T129 by complementing all limitations and shortages of the AH-1.
In addition, Turkey has a pretty similar terrain with Korea, meaning similar operation circumstances. Like Turkey, if the Korean Army accept the T129 and then replace them, you can get the potent warrior that has all things you would undergo probable shortages in action.
Q How is status of the T129 progressing in the Turkish Army
It is difficult to mention because its order negotiation is ongoing, but currently the Turkish army is accepting the T129, executing transition training.
Q As Korean Army, Turkey is replacing the AH-1 by the T129. What do you expect to improve mostly in terms of operations performance?
I mentioned before, the T129 with optimal balance between attack and defense. I'd like to put an emphasis on the fact that the T129 has improved situational awareness, target search and track capability through ensuring completely independent visual range of a back seat pilot. Ensuring visibility of back seat pilots is very important than anything else. Its importance is particularly greater in the night operations.
Unlikely a fighter aircraft, most of operations related to an actual flight is up to the back seat pilot. Through many years combat experience, the Turkish army had realized how much important ensuring the viability of the back seat pilot for situational awareness and survivability.
Due to an very old basic design, other competitors does not reflect this on their design, but the T129 has greatly enhanced situational awareness and target search and track capability through the design having fully independent visual range of the rear seat pilot.
Q I learned that other countries in the Middle East and Asian countries are showing interest. What is the business promotion there?
While I do not open an all country list, Pakistan has a plan to acquire the T129, and some Asian countries are knocking the door.
https://www.tai.com.tr/en/press/t129-the-best-replacement-for-ah-1
Aerospcace & Defense, 11 March 2013
"T129, The best replacement for AH-1"
Muharrem DORTKASLI
President & CEO of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI)
" The T129 is a helicopter with the optimal balance between a spear and shield."
It is a mention of President Dortkasli about the T129, who is visiting Korea amid the selection of the AH-X is upcoming. He introduced the T129 that combines the lessons learned over a conflict in the southeastern border over 20 years. TAI is negotiating more flexible offset under condition of DCS and cheaper price comparing to other competitors.
This is an interview with President Dortkasli
Q I've been told that you've visited Korea for offset negotiation. How is it progressing and what is a further schedule?
We are trying to take DARPA's requirement as possible as we can. We are in a negotiation with an emphasis on increasing the domestic production rate for Korean industry and technology transfer. TAI has been closely cooperated with KAI for a long time over the KT-1T Program. Currently Turkish army is introducing the T129. Korean army is also on track for the LAH (Light Attack Helicopter) Program as well as the AH-X. So this will be a good opportunity to enhance cooperation relationship and development of defense industry among two nations.
Q In the competition for the MOH(Maritime Operations Helicopter) Program, AW159 was chosen, which had a higher price competitiveness over the MH-60R, which had been considered the most potent. It was accepted as a surprise, how do you think about the results of the MOH Program?
The meaningful point is that Agustawestland won on DCS term. I think this can be a turning point for further defense programs in Korea.
Q It has been pointed out that the performance of the T129 is inferior to a leading competitor AH-64. What's your view on this?
The AH-64, and T129 is within different categories in terms of a targeting performance. So one-to-one comparison between them is undesirable.
I want to compare the T129 "a warrior with spear and shield". The chopper took the optimal balance between a size for having an affordable payload/performance and light weight design for survivability/self-protection. Having two high performance CTS 800 engines that are co-developed by Honeywell and Rolls-Royce for the U.S Army's cutting-edge RAH-66 Comanche, the T129 can maintain with a same flight performance regardless any altitude up to 18,000ft or any surrounding temperature.
Also its compact size makes the T129 significantly low-observable by vision and radar, low-acoustic, low-heat emitting.
In addition, the CTS 800 engine is basically identical one of the AW159 selected in the MOH program, the T129 has become more advantageous in terms of cost and logistic support.
Q What is the competitiveness of the T129 in the AH-X?
The AH-X considers many factors such as an airframe price, offset, and performance met. Nothing is trifling element of all of this. However, the factor that has the greatest effect on the selection would eventually become "price" including an offset. T129 can have the maximum advantage on that point.
Q What do you think about the benefits in case of that the Korean Army deploy the T129?
As well as South Korea, Turkish Army has been operating AH-1 for a long time, and has involved ongoing conflict in the southeastern region. The AH-1 has brought abundant combat experience and invaluable lessons, and we could get essential things to operate an attack helicopter. So we developed the T129 by complementing all limitations and shortages of the AH-1.
In addition, Turkey has a pretty similar terrain with Korea, meaning similar operation circumstances. Like Turkey, if the Korean Army accept the T129 and then replace them, you can get the potent warrior that has all things you would undergo probable shortages in action.
Q How is status of the T129 progressing in the Turkish Army
It is difficult to mention because its order negotiation is ongoing, but currently the Turkish army is accepting the T129, executing transition training.
Q As Korean Army, Turkey is replacing the AH-1 by the T129. What do you expect to improve mostly in terms of operations performance?
I mentioned before, the T129 with optimal balance between attack and defense. I'd like to put an emphasis on the fact that the T129 has improved situational awareness, target search and track capability through ensuring completely independent visual range of a back seat pilot. Ensuring visibility of back seat pilots is very important than anything else. Its importance is particularly greater in the night operations.
Unlikely a fighter aircraft, most of operations related to an actual flight is up to the back seat pilot. Through many years combat experience, the Turkish army had realized how much important ensuring the viability of the back seat pilot for situational awareness and survivability.
Due to an very old basic design, other competitors does not reflect this on their design, but the T129 has greatly enhanced situational awareness and target search and track capability through the design having fully independent visual range of the rear seat pilot.
Q I learned that other countries in the Middle East and Asian countries are showing interest. What is the business promotion there?
While I do not open an all country list, Pakistan has a plan to acquire the T129, and some Asian countries are knocking the door.
https://www.tai.com.tr/en/press/t129-the-best-replacement-for-ah-1
jupiter2007
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Brazil is going to sign a deal with Turkey to setup a production line for T-129 Helicopter in Brazil, and possibly Turkish involvement in Embraer KC-390 project.
Chinese will not allow local production of wz-10 helicopter.
Chinese will not allow local production of wz-10 helicopter.
nomi007
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why chinese not
they provide assistant us in all major projects
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