Your opinion on Pakistani expatriates? Is it really worth living abroad or outside of Pakistan?

[khansaheeb]

Personally I believe immorality is everywhere. Even in Saudi Arabia there are drunks, homicides, and theft.

but it is much less in Muslim countries than say in the west.

I was in Morocco some time back coming back from the Sahara desert trip and stopped at Ouarzazate for dinner and went to a souvenir shop after, there were 3 men working inside and all drunk.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I was in Morocco some time back coming back from the Sahara desert trip and stopped at Ouarzazate for dinner and went to a souvenir shop after, there were 3 men working inside and all drunk.

Yeah, so much for being "Islamic."

Although I think Morocco is one of the more conservative Muslim countries.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Yeah, so much for being "Islamic."

Although I think Morocco is one of the more conservative Muslim countries.

In what universe is Morocco conservative? Morocco is the party capital of the Muslim world, it is the Ibiza of the Muslim world.

 

[syed.rafey]

I lived in the USA, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Saudia, Malaysia, and Germany. Now I am in Pakistan. Let me briefly discuss what are the pros and cons.



USA
Pros
- Access to quality secular education
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Big economy so lots of job opportunities
- Easy to get a driver’s license
- Rental apartments of all sizes and costs are available



Cons
- 25 to 35% tax on salary depending upon the state
- Access to religious education is costly especially Islamic schools cost up to $300 per month
- Drugs, bullying, weapons, and sex is common in schools
- Far away from Pakistan. 24 hours flight
- Difficult to keep children and family system intact after one generation
- Crime rate in downtowns are high
- Weather is cold



Abu Dhabi
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Not far. 2 hours flight from Pakistan
- Lots of labor and IT technician jobs. Salary ranges from DHS 1500 to DHS 3000


Cons
- Rental apartments are costly. 2 bed apartment easily cost DH7000
- Getting car driving license is tough.
- Temptations in Dubai are overwhelming
- Weather is hot




Qatar
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Not as religious as old Saudi Arab and not as liberal as Dubai
- Not far. 2 hours flight from Pakistan


Cons
- Rental apartments are costly. 2 bed apartment easily cost DH7000
- Getting car driving license is tough.
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Weather is hot



Saudi Arab
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.

Cons
- Strict religious code. Not much culture and art in cities.
- Mostly dry and hot.
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Weather is hot


Malaysia
Pros
- Malay people are very nice
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Rent apartments are cheap and widely available
- Weather is mostly rainy with temperatures up to 28C


Cons
- 25% to 30% tax on salary based on number of dependents
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Corruption in government
- Racism between Malay and Chines nationals


Germany
Pros
- Free quality education and healthcare
- Weather is mostly cold
- Work-life is laid back in some parts of Germany. So there is a work-life balance.
- Cities are generally beautiful.
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Not far. 8 hours flight from Pakistan

Cons
- Discrimination based on color, race, and religion
- 25% to 40% tax on salary based on number of dependents
- Germans are workaholic
- Rental apartments are costly. EURO 1000 for city center studio.
- Prostitution is legal. Alcohol, beer and same-sex marriage is a common thing
- Dogs are a common pet that Muslims consider ‘Najis’
- Living together without marriage is common


Pakistan
Pros
- Family and religious values observed

- 20% or less tax

- Tax holiday for IT freelancers

- Children could learn Urdu and Quran easily

- Even after 1st generation, children stay Muslims


Cons

- Load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Unstable security and thereby economy

- Quality education is available only through private schools

 

[Goenitz]

As a Pakistani seeking higher education, I would never go to place like France, Spain, or Germany and Italy.

All have HE in English too. Be multilingual.. Also, Germany and Italy are way cheaper for education.

 

[One_Nation]

All of the posts below are evidence of slave mentality. Its disappointing to see so many people advocating learning a foreign language which was imposed on us to keep us serving our European masters. It looks like this slave mindset is not going away anytime soon. 200+ years of slavery and we have learned nothing at all.

We were way decades ahead of Turkey and century ahead of Iran in the late 60's----why---because of the lingua franca ENGLISH.

Knowing english put us ahead of any other nation in the world---.

What nations are we ahead of despite tying to learn English for hundreds of years?

English is the world's most commonly spoken language. And the language primarily used for business. If you migrate it's the most useful language, when you work for foreign companies/people, it's the most useful language.

I don't care much for who is fluent or not. However, this statement "English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education." is a non-starter.

You cannot be competitive and are taking a massive back-seat if you are not teaching your children a language which is the primary base in which all scientific, literary and technical content is produced. It was a massive mistake by Zia-ul-Haq to switch to Urdu medium. It destroyed Pakistani competitiveness at a global level and we are paying for it till now.

Imran Khan is doing the exact same thing and this is the one thing that I absolutely and vehemently disagree with him. I think he is very much a hypocrite in this regard having been educated in the west himself and doing the same with his kids yet waxing eloquence about why Pakistanis need to shun angraizi.

I absolutely love the Urdu language and have no complexes about those that speak this language only. However, there is one problem that needs to be addressed and then I am ALL for complete switch to Urdu medium. This one issue is, you either implement the Turkish/Japanese model or keep on teaching our kids English. The Turkish and Japanese models incorporate painstaking efforts to translate most scientific, literary and technical content in the native language in a sustained manner. This allows their native speakers to stay abreast of the rest of world and allows literacy for the broader population in light of the latest developments etc.

Pakistan has not done this and we are paying the price even now. Instead of addressing this weakness, the easier route is being taken to remove English from the primary curriculum.

What a childish view of the world you have. There is no Turkish/Japanese "model" that you are talking about. They just follow their culture and speak their language which results in them having their own philosophies, views, mindset unlike us. They don't have to mimic anyone in any sphere of life and hence they are far more advanced than us. They have never been and cannot be physcially and mentally colonized.
They don't do any "painstaking" translation. It is easy for transalators to do it because they know both languages. The rest of the population benefits from reading everything in the language that is natural to them are comfortable with. They don't have to waste their mental energies on language confusion like us.

The best thing about Imran Khan is he doesn't suffer from slave mentality. He has seen the world and understands very well what makes us mentally subjugative of other cultures. He has spent time with an open and independent mind in English culture which is the root of mental colonialism in many parts of the world including ours and he has made good use of his learning. I hope he succeeds in whatever he is trying to do.

I question the intellectual capability of any grown up person who thinks reverting back to local language in education can have any negative effect on competitiveness. Being a second grade speaker of a foreign language is a recipe to keep us a second grade nation. Pakistanis despite learning English throughout their schooling are some of the least competitive immigrants in western world.

I hope not. English is here to stay as an essential language for economic development.

Pakistan is close to the bottom of every social and economic development. Maybe we didn't speak English hard enough.

I too am of the opinion that English is important.

It is the most widely taught foreign language.

Usually when Pakistani students go to the west they have to take the TOEFL or IELTS English exam before going to university.


Personally I would not have minded if Mujib became PM of Pakistan.

Is going to the west the sole purpose of Pakistani education? What about the more than 99% who have to live here?

As a Pakistani seeking higher education, I would never go to place like France, Spain, or Germany and Italy.

The language barrier is too difficult.

But English is the language of international business, so it is easier to go to Anglophone speaking countries for a higher education.

English is one of the most widely spoken languages, it's predominantly used in international business, if you migrate it's the most useful language, if you work for foreign companies/people it's the most useful language (Like the IT exports IK wants to increase, for example), the most valuable academia/literature which is available is probably in English too.

English and Urdu should both be encouraged.

How much business did it get us? Working for foreign companies is not the goal of education. If you know what real IT is you don't need to learn English for that.

What a trivial mindset on display here.

 

[jupiter2007]

My old parents still think Pakistan is still in the 1950's and 1960's.
Yes back then the universities may have been crap in Pakistan.
My mother went to Allama Iqbal Open University while my father went to Punjab university.

Pakistan has changed a lot since those times.

I had a family friend with the name of Zafar Iqbal. He said he would never leave Pakistan, no matter to bad the situation is. Some people cannot tolerate living outside their society/culture.
Or some people said, what about our culture, yes what about that!

It all depends on circumstances. IMHO, if given a chance for better life outside Pakistan, 99% of Pakistani will leave Pakistan.
Elite group doesn’t even make 1% of Pakistan.

 

[JamD]

On a lighter note

 

[forcetrip]

On a lighter note

View attachment 819590

They mean Poland better than Pakistan. They were crying to get out of Ukraine the last I heard.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

teachers in schools in Pakistan are women homemakers

I am looking for extremely honest and fair opinions about our motherland Pakistan

Pakistani education system has surely drawbacks but one thing i can surely tell you is that Pakistani education is improving day by day.Online education providers are competing against each other due to which standard of early education is improving.(Thanks to our growing IT sector).

Private schools and colleges (even Universities) are also having tough competition against each other like KIPS & Punjab Colleges rivalry in Faisalabad.

For university education, i can't comment on this yet.


For security! I don't know about other provinces but Punjab's security system is quite stable and safe.With little care, you will be safe.No language or race or even religious discrimination by locals.In fact, Punjab's culture has become very flexible.There are thousands of Pushtoons and Balochs whose fathers came here can speak Punjabi fluently and even Saraiki.In fact,my Pushtoon class fellow once said to me that Saraiki is sweeter than pure Punjabi.

So Pakistan(or at least Punjab) is not that bad.You will enjoy here.

@jus_chillin plz inform him about KPK also.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

@jus_chillin plz inform him about KPK also.

I am not from KPK I am from Quetta

 

[MultaniGuy]

Pakistani education system has surely drawbacks but one thing i can surely tell you is that Pakistani education is improving day by day.Online education providers are competing against each other due to which standard of early education is improving.(Thanks to our growing IT sector).

Private schools and colleges (even Universities) are also having tough competition against each other like KIPS & Punjab Colleges rivalry in Faisalabad.

For university education, i can't comment on this yet.


For security! I don't know about other provinces but Punjab's security system is quite stable and safe.With little care, you will be safe.No language or race or even religious discrimination by locals.In fact, Punjab's culture has become very flexible.There are thousands of Pushtoons and Balochs whose fathers came here can speak Punjabi fluently and even Saraiki.In fact,my Pushtoon class fellow once said to me that Saraiki is sweeter than pure Punjabi.

So Pakistan(or at least Punjab) is not that bad.You will enjoy here.

@jus_chillin plz inform him about KPK also.

Let tell you something, The education is improving in Pakistan. My brother applied for medicine at Aga Khan university, but got rejected.

Aga Khan University also required SAT Subject tests.

A western university called Queen's university in Canada accepted my brother for Chemical Engineering.

So there you go.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

got rejected

This is due to sheer competition in medical field in Pakistan

 

[MultaniGuy]

This is due to sheer competition in medical field in Pakistan

There is another good medical university called King Edward Medical University I believe.

I lived in the USA, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Saudia, Malaysia, and Germany. Now I am in Pakistan. Let me briefly discuss what are the pros and cons.



USA
Pros
- Access to quality secular education
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Big economy so lots of job opportunities
- Easy to get a driver’s license
- Rental apartments of all sizes and costs are available



Cons
- 25 to 35% tax on salary depending upon the state
- Access to religious education is costly especially Islamic schools cost up to $300 per month
- Drugs, bullying, weapons, and sex is common in schools
- Far away from Pakistan. 24 hours flight
- Difficult to keep children and family system intact after one generation
- Crime rate in downtowns are high
- Weather is cold



Abu Dhabi
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Not far. 2 hours flight from Pakistan
- Lots of labor and IT technician jobs. Salary ranges from DHS 1500 to DHS 3000


Cons
- Rental apartments are costly. 2 bed apartment easily cost DH7000
- Getting car driving license is tough.
- Temptations in Dubai are overwhelming
- Weather is hot




Qatar
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Not as religious as old Saudi Arab and not as liberal as Dubai
- Not far. 2 hours flight from Pakistan


Cons
- Rental apartments are costly. 2 bed apartment easily cost DH7000
- Getting car driving license is tough.
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Weather is hot



Saudi Arab
Pros
- No tax on salary
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.

Cons
- Strict religious code. Not much culture and art in cities.
- Mostly dry and hot.
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Weather is hot


Malaysia
Pros
- Malay people are very nice
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities.
- Rent apartments are cheap and widely available
- Weather is mostly rainy with temperatures up to 28C


Cons
- 25% to 30% tax on salary based on number of dependents
- Limited economy, limited jobs
- Corruption in government
- Racism between Malay and Chines nationals


Germany
Pros
- Free quality education and healthcare
- Weather is mostly cold
- Work-life is laid back in some parts of Germany. So there is a work-life balance.
- Cities are generally beautiful.
- No load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Not far. 8 hours flight from Pakistan

Cons
- Discrimination based on color, race, and religion
- 25% to 40% tax on salary based on number of dependents
- Germans are workaholic
- Rental apartments are costly. EURO 1000 for city center studio.
- Prostitution is legal. Alcohol, beer and same-sex marriage is a common thing
- Dogs are a common pet that Muslims consider ‘Najis’
- Living together without marriage is common


Pakistan
Pros
- Family and religious values observed

- 20% or less tax

- Tax holiday for IT freelancers

- Children could learn Urdu and Quran easily

- Even after 1st generation, children stay Muslims


Cons

- Load shading of gas, electricity, and other basic necessities
- Unstable security and thereby economy

- Quality education is available only through private schools

Usually Pakistanis like to go to Saudi Arabia and UAE.
Its close to Pakistan.

I have talked to Pakistanis who lived in Dhahran, Abqaiq, Udhailiyah, and Ras Tanura.
Those are the Aramco camps in Saudi Arabia

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

There is another good medical university called King Edward Medical University I believe.

King Edward
NUMS
Are best but NUMS is private university so very expensive