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YF-23 (Black Widow II): will KSA go for it?

True, but Usrael has a history of tech theft, google about plutonium from the US, or the South African ATGM (Mokopa Missile Affair) now called Spike..

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...a-south-ssa-guardian-mos-150219180058280.html

So what? That does not prove your claim about F16 or Mirage 2000. And, incidentally, there is no member of the Spike familiy that matches the Mokopa missile. So that should make you wonder: what did the Israelis stand to learn from it (that they didn't already know?) Besides, industrial espionage if quite common, even among friendly nations.
 
So what? That does not prove your claim about F16 or Mirage 2000. And, incidentally, there is no member of the Spike familiy that matches the Mokopa missile. So that should make you wonder: what did the Israelis stand to learn from it (that they didn't already know?) Besides, industrial espionage if quite common, even among friendly nations.
he hate israel and cant reconize what we achive he will search every thing bad he can find i didnt here any thing bad he say on chineese
 
So what? That does not prove your claim about F16 or Mirage 2000. And, incidentally, there is no member of the Spike familiy that matches the Mokopa missile. So that should make you wonder: what did the Israelis stand to learn from it (that they didn't already know?) Besides, industrial espionage if quite common, even among friendly nations.
Well, at least you are recognising that there is Industrial Espionage all over the place, but you like to innocent Usrael.. poor little entity..

he hate israel and cant reconize what we achive he will search every thing bad he can find i didnt here any thing bad he say on chineese
Why? You compare your 1% achievements and 99% from the US, with 100% Chinese achievements..
 
The real question is "Will the US ever sell you YF-23?" Big NO! Americans are forcing 1970s tech down your throat even after your spending Billions and Billions of dollars. They wouldn't offer Saudi F35 so even the thought of getting near the Black Widow is way far fetched. Talk about being over enthusiastic.
 
The real question is "Will the US ever sell you YF-23?" Big NO! Americans are forcing 1970s tech down your throat even after your spending Billions and Billions of dollars. They wouldn't offer Saudi F35 so even the thought of getting near the Black Widow is way far fetched. Talk about being over enthusiastic.
Some people said the same thing as you in the 80s and 90s, that the US will never sell the F-15 to KSA, guess what has happened,, Saudis also got the Strategic weapon called AWACS and everything else they wanted..

Besides that, today things are much different with so many nations wanting to sell their latest tech for a good price.. KSA can get a customised version of the J-20 from China or A customised version of the Russian Pak-Fa, or work with the Turks on the TFX program, the UK will always be there to sell its latest tech as well as France, Italy and Spain among others..
Do you honestly think that with all these possibilities the US and particularly this President Trump will let an opportunity to make $100s of billions slip from US hands to some other nation..No he won't, that is if KSA asks for it..
 
Some people said the same thing as you in the 80s and 90s, that the US will never sell the F-15 to KSA, guess what has happened,, Saudis also got the Strategic weapon called AWACS and everything else they wanted..

Besides that, today things are much different with so many nations wanting to sell their latest tech for a good price.. KSA can get a customised version of the J-20 from China or A customised version of the Russian Pak-Fa, or work with the Turks on the TFX program, the UK will always be there to sell its latest tech as well as France, Italy and Spain among others..
Do you honestly think that with all these possibilities the US and particularly this President Trump will let an opportunity to make $100s of billions slip from US hands to some other nation..No he won't, that is if KSA asks for it..

I dont mean no disrespect bro but its not about whether Saudi asks or not. Everyone likes the best but somethings you just can't get no matter how deep your pockets are. Saudi airforce planners know this which is why the opted for F15s. Besides, YF23 is a more advanced counterpart of the f22, the only reason f22 won the 5th gen competition was because USAF considered it to be more maintenance friendly. Now if the US won't sell its F22 which is their stated government policy, why would they sell something more advanced than their best aircraft?
Is it making sense or have I lost you there.
 
Well, at least you are recognising that there is Industrial Espionage all over the place, but you like to innocent Usrael.. poor little entity..


Why? You compare your 1% achievements and 99% from the US, with 100% Chinese achievements..
chineese stole all the usa secrets of f 35 and other air defence systems they copy most of there products
lol usa didnt help us like you think must of the job we did alone mossad dont make think like stael anti missle secrets he take care of israel security out side israel kill people that are denjoures to israel like iran sinctiests that why its bulshit to say 100 chineese its real joke very bad joke there even admit they copy and steal what ever they can and proud of this what usa give us money to invest in defence and free equipment and help in david sling and arrow
to say 1 % its realy show how much you hate israel and how much you are stupid its more around 90 % israel
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a746/3319656/
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-hacked-f22-f35-jet-secrets/
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28583283
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-stole-fighter-russia—-its-coming-the-south-china-sea-17087
http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1693820-5-weapons-china-stole-from-us-russia
we make must of our defence industry alone and use also buy technology from us
 
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Saudi Arabia is determined to acquire the fifth generation fighter jets, whether by buying or manufacturing ...

Saudi Arabia and its leaders throughout history have acquired the best for its armed forces and with its new leadership it has started with a new thought, namely: Catch rare and real opportunities

So will Saudi Arabia do it and go for the F-23 full/partial ToT to make it in KSA?


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The Black Widow was much faster and stealthier than the F-22 Raptor..

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(Click to expand image..)

What is the feasibility of such a project?
Its possible that the Saudis could get it.


Bro! How if saudis for Turkish jt program or JF-17 Block 3
It will be more cheaper and good for muslims world and for saudis too...
US will provide their jets on limitations
 
I dont mean no disrespect bro but its not about whether Saudi asks or not. Everyone likes the best but somethings you just can't get no matter how deep your pockets are. Saudi airforce planners know this which is why the opted for F15s. Besides, YF23 is a more advanced counterpart of the f22, the only reason f22 won the 5th gen competition was because USAF considered it to be more maintenance friendly. Now if the US won't sell its F22 which is their stated government policy, why would they sell something more advanced than their best aircraft?
Is it making sense or have I lost you there.
It makes sense in a way, and that is why we are discussing the possibility.. but keep in mind that the F-23 was tested more than a decade ago, and the F-22 went through a whole new program after being selected, So in reality the Y-23 was (maybe, since they were different concepts) better then, but not anymore..So I think that basing a custom made 5th G on the Y-23 existing design can be viable..

Bro! How if saudis for Turkish jt program or JF-17 Block 3
It will be more cheaper and good for muslims world and for saudis too...
US will provide their jets on limitations
Brother, KSA will certainly go for the Turkish TFX program, if the only choice it will have is the latter or Pak-Fa from Russia, But there is the Chinese J-20 too that is readily available (but not for export..yet), this means that the TFX has a very good chance..still if KSA can get its hands on a very advanced design from the US, it will be much better, since Turkey can also help in customising the design and learn a lot from the technologies involved, which it can also incorporate into the TFX..So both situations are win-win for both Turkey and KSA.. in the meanwhile Turkey will be getting its F-35s while KSA does not have a 5th G coming as soon as that, so it should not be blamed if it wants to start its own program based on F-23 design..
As for the JF-17 Blk 3, KSA was studying the purchase of a big number from Pakistan, A fact which I think will happen sooner or later, since KSA was following the program since its inception..
 
he hate israel and cant reconize what we achive he will search every thing bad he can find i didnt here any thing bad he say on chineese
Mind your own business pls.

Well, at least you are recognising that there is Industrial Espionage all over the place, but you like to innocent Usrael.. poor little entity..
WtF? This is BS. QUOTE me, I dare you..
 
they just wont sell them you will see
its in there low that israel will get
Military superiority not every thing its money still they can buy chineese stealth fighter witch is usa tech stolen by chineese its the same


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/gulf/f-35ksa.htm

its hard to under stand that usa will not sell f 35 to arabs for israel?
Dude,can you say Sth like a man
You just like a boiled child,full of wards childish
"USA tech stolen by Chinese",it seems USA is so stupid that china can steal whatever USA technology only if they want
 
Mind your own business pls.


WtF? This is BS. QUOTE me, I dare you..
Well, they say they could do it on their own it was better and cheaper, but they get the second best which are the F-16s, F-15s and now the F-35..what an alibi..I am not sure if you know about all their stolen tech up to plutonium from the US..but I do not blame you if you don't, they were controlling the Media and have covered/erased most of it.. I have provided you an article saying it was built on the F-6 and you still don't believe it!

So let's stick to the topic at hand, I am interested in your opinion on it more than the off topic subjects..
 
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Well, they say they could do it on their own it was better and cheaper, but they get the second best which are the F-16s, F-15s and now the F-35..what an alibi..I am not sure if you know about all their stolen tech up to plutonium from the US..but I do not blame you if you don't, they were controlling the Media and have covered/erased most of it.. I have provided you an article saying it was built on the F-6 and you still don't believe it!

So let's stick to the topic at hand, I am interested in your opinion on it more than the off topic subjects..
No, I'm not sticking to the topic if you insist on insinuating I don't know certain things. I've been in the analysis business for real and longer than most here. Don't make assumptions. Why c/shouldn'the Israeli come up with a design that is in some ways better than F16 (A/B at the time was nothing like what current versions are), their design was a good decade newer. Think about what that means e.g. in computing (both on the plane and at the design table) and materials.

I do not have preconceived ideas about the Israeli's like you appear to have.
 
No, I'm not sticking to the topic if you insist on insinuating I don't know certain things. I've been in the analysis business for real and longer than most here. Don't make assumptions. Why c/shouldn'the Israeli come up with a design that is in some ways better than F16 (A/B at the time was nothing like what current versions are), their design was a good decade newer. Think about what that means e.g. in computing (both on the plane and at the design table) and materials.

I do not have preconceived ideas about the Israeli's like you appear to have.
I have been in the military (and other) analysis business for a long time too..I speak from facts not by emotion or preconceived ideas.. we just have different perceptions, I base mine on very long and deep knowledge of the middle east problems and its countries while you take a neutral or sometimes a pro-Usraeli stance, I do not blame you, since Usrael was planted there by the Western powers of that time and still being fully supported by the new ones today, I can sympathise with the view that you have been exposed to and believe in.. on the other hand I can see it from different angles as I lived in both the middle east and the West..
Hoe gaat het? I hope you do not take it personally.. I am not insinuating anything about you, as you can see I am defending my point of view as you are defending yours.. I have provided you with many tips in articles that point to what we are discussing.. If you do not accept them, I won't be bothered the least.. I usually enjoy our discussions because I see that you put a lot of effort in it and you research it..and I do the same..

Now if you can tell me your point of view on the subject of this thread, it will also be appreciated..
 
I think that Saudi can convince an American firm to develop a 5th generation fighter aircraft for it, tailored to its needs.

The real question is "Will the US ever sell you YF-23?" Big NO! Americans are forcing 1970s tech down your throat even after your spending Billions and Billions of dollars. They wouldn't offer Saudi F35 so even the thought of getting near the Black Widow is way far fetched. Talk about being over enthusiastic.
US is not shoving its 1970s tech down anybody's throat. Saudi Arabia - as potential customer - expresses its interest in purchasing arms of its choice from the US.

B/W F-15 SA is continuously updated and better than most aircraft out there.
 
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