Worrying aspects about Imran Khan's campaign

[53fd]

"Carpet bomb? If the USA wanted to "carpet bomb" there would be thousands and thousands of "innocents" killed in FATA, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and even Karachi. No, the USA's drone strike effort is exactly what you have said that Khan would do with drug lords. There is no need to bring in specious anti-American arguments to make your points about IK.

Let's not reject the ground realities now. The US has killed innocent civilians in drone strikes, & in March 2011, they did kill 40 innocent tribal elders. But I have read detailed local & international reports on drone strikes statistics, & their accuracy of killing militants has increased greatly. In 2008 & 2009 (& before that), civilian casualties from drone strikes was much higher. These days, the US is involved in many more 'signature' strikes than 'personality' strikes, & the number of 'signature' strikes must be decreased.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Let's not reject the ground realities now.

I am reacting to the libel: "carpet bomb". Drone strikes have killed some innocent bystanders, no doubt. But they are the exact opposite of "carpet bombing" in the way they operate against an enemy embedded with civilians. To characterize drone strikes as "carpet bombing" is simply wrong and intentionally pejorative.

 

[53fd]

I am quoting my earlier post from another thread:

‘386 civilians died in 300 drone attacks’|| Dawn

Majority of them are terrorists.

In 2009, a lot of innocent civilians (children, women) were killed, but since then, about 90% militants have been killed in 2010 & 2011. Here are the statistics, detailing each & every drone strike, confirmed by local media outlets:

Data from drone strikes:

Estimated Total Deaths from U.S. Drone Strikes in Pakistan, 2010 - 2011

Deaths (low) Deaths (high)
2011* 378 536
2010 607 993


Estimated Militant Deaths from U.S. Drone Strikes in Pakistan 2010 - 2011

Deaths (low) Deaths (high)
2011* 362 500
2010 581 939

The Year of the Drone | NewAmerica.net

It has referred to data from local reports as well before coming up with the conclusions.

Pakistan and the U.S.: At a Strategic Crossroads - YouTube

Any loss of innocent life is regrettable, & Pakistan make sure that the collateral damage is 0%.

 

[53fd]

Some statistics of drone attacks in Pakistan:

The report released on Saturday by Bureau of Investigative Journalism has mentioned varying figures about the casualties in the attacks as it says that at least 2,318 people and a maximum of 2,912 people, the majority of them alleged militants, have been killed in these attacks.

Between 386 and 775 civilians, including 173 children, were killed in the 300 drone attacks since June 17, 2004. The report says between 1,141 and 1,225 persons were injured.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/10/16/386-civilians-died-in-300-drone-attacks.html

In other words, according to conservative estimates, 386 civilians have been killed from a total of 2318 people, in 300 strikes. According to high estimates, 775 civilians have been killed from a total of 2912 people, in 300 strikes.

 

[Developereo]

"Carpet bomb? If the USA wanted to "carpet bomb" there would be thousands and thousands of "innocents" killed in FATA, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and even Karachi. No, the USA's drone strike effort is exactly what you have said that Khan would do with drug lords. There is no need to bring in specious anti-American arguments to make your points about IK.

Fair point. Replace 'carpet bomb' with 'indiscriminate, extrajudicial killings'. No American court would tolerate such activity on American soil.

And, as long as the US hasn't declared war on Pakistan, the FATA are not a war-zone, so the drones cannot operate under those rules of engagement. As far as I know, the drones are operated by the CIA, not the USAF, so they circumvent normal US military rules of engagement. The CIA seems to have a lot more latitude in its operations than the US military.

 

[53fd]

I think we can safely say that terrorists have killed more Pakistani civilians than drone strikes have. I do not condone drone strikes. I hope they stop soon. I am a firm critic of the US Foreign Policy. But I also recognize the threat Pakistan faces from terrorists within its borders. I wish IK does the same.

 

[TruthSeeker]

^^^^^^ Fine. But do you know what "carpet bombing" means? Ever see films of the Allied bombings of Dresden and Tokyo during WWII? Do you think that those actions might be where the term "carpet bombing" comes from? Do you think a drone strike is carpet bombing?????

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

No American court would tolerate such activity on American soil.

I totally agree. Nor would any US government permit terrorist groups to shelter in the USA and attack Canada or Mexico at will.

 

[53fd]

I agree that the drone strikes that have killed innocent civilians are crimes against humanity & HR violations, & someone within the US administration should be tried & have to pay the price for these crimes against humanity when they kill innocent civilians.

 

[Zarvan]

I'll break down my assessment of Imran Khan in a pros & cons list:

Pros:

a) He is an honest worker

b) He is not a feudal/wadera

c) He has a large support from certain sections of the middle & upper middle classes of Pakistan, & seems like the only one capable of breaking the political stronghold of the PML-N & PPP. Even though he needs to tackle PML-N's (South Punjab) & PPP's strongholds (Sindh).

d) He has good leadership skills, even though he is untested on a national political level.

e) He can bring a positive change for Balochistan & KPK/FATA as compared to previous governments.


Cons:

a) He undermines Pakistan's WOT efforts. The drone campaign in Pakistan, & Pakistani Army efforts in the FATA have done a lot to break the terror network there. I am fearful that terrorist sympathizers & extremists might slip in through the cracks & might be rooting for him as well.

b) He seems to be a one-man show, & we do not know enough about the PTI. He does not seem to have a strong enough team backing him up. He seems a bit naive sometimes as well.

c) The PTI does not have one seat in the parliament.

d) He should give better clarification on how he plans to revive the economy (he has talked about utilizing Pakistan's natural resources, asking politicians to declare their assets, better tax collection; but there must be something more concrete. We don't want Imran Khan's revolution campaign to turn into Obama's 2008 "Change" campaign).


Overall, I will still root for the PTI over the PML-N & PPP, but I will certainly have certain apprehensions about Imran Khan, till these are clarified.

Mr your Army is themselves saying that they hardly have achieved 15 % and the moment they will return from those Areads Taliban will be back and Drone Attacks have produced more terrorists than reducing them and at first Bhutto was also one man show PTI don't have one seat because they didn't contested elections in 2007 Sir to extract resources you need money which you don't have because we don't collect TAXES

 

[mahabharath]

Do I like the US violating our sovereignty? No. Do I like it when the US drone strikes kill innocent civilians? No. I want the drone strikes to end as quickly as possible. But let's not be foolhardy in thinking abandoning drone strikes will end violence in Pakistan. They won't. The terrorists have killed many many more civilians than drone strikes have. All I am looking for is Imran Khan accepting this fact.

Isn't this is why this world is afraid of you people? You are a US citizen but your loyalty lies somewhere else!!!! I really do not have words to describe your type of people..only thing I can say is, there is nothing wrong with the people when they fear about you guys..you deserve it..

 

[Developereo]

I totally agree. Nor would any US government permit terrorist groups to shelter in the USA and attack Canada or Mexico at will.

Yes. It's a hypothetical. If some militia in MT or ND were attacking Canada, would the FBI conduct drones strikes on small towns in those states?

 

[53fd]

The biggest objection I see to the drone strikes program is, that these programs have utterly disgraced Pakistan, & have been conducted 'out of the realm' of what was (allegedly) agreed by Pakistan & the US in the past. The frequency of the attacks & the way they are conducted (without bringing Pakistan into confidence) is completely unacceptable, & is not what was (allegedly) agreed between the two parties.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Yes. It's a hypothetical. If some militia in MT or ND were attacking Canada, would the FBI conduct drones strikes on small towns in those states?

Of course not!!! The National Guard in whatever State was being used would go in and clean them out. Kill them all, if necessary. Really, the USA Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) Agency wouldn't even let a terrorist group carry out a second mission. They might get one mission because no one knew they were there, but not two. Look at what happened to David Koresh's Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas. That's a pretty good indication of how a terrorist group would be handled in the USA.

 

[Developereo]

Of course not!!! The National Guard in whatever State was being used would go in and clean them out. Kill them all, if necessary. Really, the USA Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) Agency wouldn't even let a terrorist group carry out a second mission. They might get one mission because no one knew they were there, but not two. Look at what happened to David Koresh's Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas. That's a pretty good indication of how a terrorist group would be handled in the USA.

Yes, but you remember how Reno and the ATF were raked over the coals for the whole episode? I agree the US with vastly superior resources has more options at its disposal than Pakistan does, but the point is that extrajudicial killings would not be tolerated.

 

[bc040400065]

As an outsider, I see Mushraff as the only leader with the courage to take on Pakistan's challenges . Imran Khan seems kinda shallow.

but the problem is Musharaf has no political support and people havn't forgot that he was also a US puppet.

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@ Bilal haider
Do read Imran's book many of your questions about FATA and WOT would be answered.