World highest suicide rate - Korea, Japan, Russia, India and others

[Okemos]

your brain has to be complex enough to bypass your extinkt

Suicide is committed by intelligent beings, so in a way, suicide does show human beings reflection of themselves. I doubt cows, pigs, dogs, etc, will commit suicide, although I did saw news that dogs might. But dogs are known for its intelligence and loyalty.

I am not advocating suicide or disparaging religion. But I do think suicide at least shows that we humans are not mindless drones. Of course, religion can plant seeds in human brains as deterrence against suicide.

 

[kalanirnay]

Suicide is committed by intelligent beings, so in a way, suicide does show human beings reflection of themselves. I doubt cows, pigs, dogs, etc, will commit suicide, although I did saw news that dogs might. But dogs are known for its intelligence and loyalty.

I am not advocating suicide or disparaging religion. But I do think suicide at least shows that we humans are not mindless drones. Of course, religion can plant seeds in human brains as deterrence against suicide.

......err they can. That is the whole point.

 

[Falcon29]

@JUBA @Hazzy997 skip to 56 seconds.

That was a funny movie, lol.

 

[Okemos]

Again, your beliefs are not borne out by empirical evidence. Most atheistic societies are very peaceful, and many religious societies are crime ridden. That is an inescapable fact.

Now your contention that a non religious person will commit crimes because they have no fear of a hell is a typical belief that many religious people mistakenly have. When the atheist Penn Jillette was asked what stops him from raping and murdering as many people as he wants, his answer was simple: "I do rape and murder as many people as I want, and the number for both is zero."

Most people will not go around committing heinous crimes, whether or not a god is watching. Some people will do crimes, whether or not they think a god is watching. It's that simple. And that is why every society has police forces and law courts. You boast that your country has sharia law - but note that that law has to be enforced by the police and judiciary. Being religious alone doesn't prevent crime. Most people in your country are highly religious, but you still need a very strong police force and harsh laws. In general, the most religious societies have the harshest punishments for crime. Which means that people's belief in a god is not what prevents crime.

@Ravi Nair : Being the poster boy for Indian atheists, would you like to chip in? Are there other atheists or non religious people who can try to explain my points better to juba? @Dillinger ? @Indischer?

haha, very good rebuttal. The very existence of the harshest Sharia Law in Islamic countries shows that religion and fear of god doesn't prevent them from committing crimes, but harshest punishment in this world does. Otherwise, there should be no law or police or whatsoever in those countries.

 

[zip]

There's a big percentage of Japanese/Russians/Koreans Atheists so no surprise here...

Ya they were not on a mission to kill others by suicide bombing ..these athiests seems to be more humane in suicide too

 

[JUBA]

The point is this: The conversation was about atheism leading to suicides, as juba alleged. That is why religion came into the discussion at all. Now your ideas about whether Indians follow religion properly or not is irrelevant - the only question of relevance is whether those people who committed suicide were atheists, or did they believe in a god. And you know as well as I do, that most Indians are not atheists and do believe in a god. That's all that matters to this particular discussion - whether they had a belief in a god or not.


And also the lowest personal freedom. It is easy to claim low crime rate when everybody is shackled - in a prison, crime rate is generally low. Besides, your country is very small in a sense - all the population is concentrated in a few urban centers, and the total population is not too big, and the country is very rich, so can afford a lot of policing per population. Singapore is also in a similar situation, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, although they have no sharia law.

The point is that, as I hinted before, it is policing and legal systems that keep crimes in check, not religious beliefs. As I told you before, the Scandinavian countries have very, very low crime rates as well, and they are some of the most atheistic societies on the planet. Sudan and Pakistan and Somalia are some of the most religious places, and also the most crime ridden. Religion has not helped curb crime, but lack of effective policing surely has contributed to the crime rate.

If you look around the world, you will see the fact that it is effective policing that keeps crime rates low, not religious beliefs.

Nope, you're wrong

Countries with highest percentage of Atheists clearly has higher crime rates.

Again, your beliefs are not borne out by empirical evidence. Most atheistic societies are very peaceful, and many religious societies are crime ridden. That is an inescapable fact.

Now your contention that a non religious person will commit crimes because they have no fear of a hell is a typical belief that many religious people mistakenly have. When the atheist Penn Jillette was asked what stops him from raping and murdering as many people as he wants, his answer was simple: "I do rape and murder as many people as I want, and the number for both is zero."

Most people will not go around committing heinous crimes, whether or not a god is watching. Some people will do crimes, whether or not they think a god is watching. It's that simple. And that is why every society has police forces and law courts. You boast that your country has sharia law - but note that that law has to be enforced by the police and judiciary. Being religious alone doesn't prevent crime. Most people in your country are highly religious, but you still need a very strong police force and harsh laws. In general, the most religious societies have the harshest punishments for crime. Which means that people's belief in a god is not what prevents crime.

@Ravi Nair : Being the poster boy for Indian atheists, would you like to chip in? Are there other atheists or non religious people who can try to explain my points better to juba? @Dillinger ? @Indischer?

You're wrong again,
Sharia law = Religious law thus my country has a low crime percentage, not to mention that the people as well are religious which will further more prevent them from committing crimes. You can also see this in the US, the most conservative religious states usually have lower crime rates compared to other states.

Suicide is committed by intelligent beings

So i take it that you think that suicide bombers are intelligent ?

Ya they were not on a mission to kill others by suicide bombing ..these athiests seems to be more humane in suicide too

Your points are irrelevant, check my other posts in this thread.

 

[zip]

Nope, you're wrong

Countries with highest percentage of Atheists clearly has higher crime rates.



You're wrong again,
Sharia law = Religious law thus my country has a low crime percentage, not to mention that the people as well are religious which will further more prevent them from committing crimes. You can also see this in the US, the most conservative religious states usually have lower crime rates compared to other states.



So i take it that you think that suicide bombers are intelligent ?



Your points are irrelevant, check my other posts in this thread.

Have you heard animals commiting suicide ? So who is more religious ?

 

[JUBA]

Have you heard animals commiting suicide ? So who is more religious ?

So you're admitting that animals are more intelligent than Atheists ?

 

[janon]

Nope, you're wrong

Countries with highest percentage of Atheist clearly has higher crime rates.

A youtube video from a muslim evangelical who calls himself "theproudmuslim"? Gee, I wonder why his "data" supports his conclusion. Let me guess - he is also a muslim, right? Surprise, surprise!

Please look at real world facts, instead of personal videos put up by people clearly advocating a specific viewpoint. Learn and understand what objectivity and neutrality mean.

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Saudi Arabia, even with all the advantages of being rich, populations concentrated in some urban centers etc, ranks #71. In the top ten countries with lowest crime rates, most of them are very irreligious. Heck, even the top 20 are very irreligious. Places like Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Sweden, France all stand as conspicuous counters to your notion that religion prevents crime.

You will have to resign yourself to this fact sooner or later - being religious never prevented criminality, and in fact empirically, only exacerbates it. Atheistic societies tend to be much more peaceful and tolerant and liveable.

 

[zip]

So you're admitting that animals are more intelligent than Atheists ?

No you are saying animals are more religious since they wont commit suicide

 

[JUBA]

A youtube video from a muslim evangelical who calls himself "theproudmuslim"? Gee, I wonder why his "data" supports his conclusion. Let me guess - he is also a muslim, right? Surprise, surprise!

Please look at real world facts, instead of personal videos put up by people clearly advocating a specific viewpoint. Learn and understand what objectivity and neutrality mean.

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

Saudi Arabia, even with all the advantages of being rich, populations concentrated in some urban centers etc, ranks #71. In the top ten countries with lowest crime rates, most of them are very irreligious. Heck, even the top 20 are very irreligious. Places like Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Sweden, France all stand as conspicuous counters to your notion that religion prevents crime.

You will have to resign yourself to this fact sooner or later - being religious never prevented criminality, and in fact empirically, only exacerbates it. Atheistic societies tend to be much more peaceful and tolerant and liveable.

Maybe you should have looked in the description of his video before making yourself look like a fool, here's a source better than yours:

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-to...wVejsfsSnYA2c03F8MTQxMDU0NTg5MUAxNDEwNDU5NDkx

No you are saying animals are more religious since they wont commit suicide

When did i say animals are more religious ?

 

[janon]

You're wrong again,
Sharia law = Religious law thus my country has a low crime percentage, not to mention that the people as well are religious which will further more prevent them from committing crimes. You can also see this in the US, the most conservative religious states usually have lower crime rates compared to other states.

You are missing the point. That sharia law has to be enforced through force by the state, via police forces and law courts. So it is not belief in a god that is preventing crime, but the fear of the police. If being religious makes people refrain from crimes, then Saudi Arabia wouldn't need much policing, since people there are very religious. And yet, Saudi Arabia has some of the toughest laws and punishments in the world.

And BTW, the crime rate is Saudi Arabia is not that low, it is in the mid range. Countries like Sweden and Norway lead in that regard. Saudi ranks #71 in per capita crime.

 

[JUBA]

You are missing the point. That sharia law has to be enforced through force by the state, via police forces and law courts. So it is not belief in a god that is preventing crime, but the fear of the police. If being religious makes people refrain from crimes, then Saudi Arabia wouldn't need much policing, since people there are very religious. And yet, Saudi Arabia has some of the toughest laws and punishments in the world.

And BTW, the crime rate is Saudi Arabia is not that low, it is in the mid range. Countries like Sweden and Norway lead in that regard. Saudi ranks #71 in per capita crime.

If you look at it from a neutral view you'll find both religion and state laws are nothing but laws, the only difference is that religious laws are more efficient than state laws because there's no escape from it in the afterlife unlike state laws when you can simply bribe a judge, God won't accept your bribe, hance religious people commit less crimes, as i stated above in my statistic. so my point still stands, religion prevent people from committing crimes.

 

[janon]

Maybe you should have looked in the description of his video before making yourself look like a fool, here's a source better than yours:

Sigh. Now you are really being dense. I cannot forever continue pointing out the glaring fallacies of reason that you are committing. I have made my point, and the real data is out there for anybody to see.

Also, as I said before, if the only reason that somebody is not doing heinous crimes is because he fears that the great dictator in the sky may torture him after death, then let that person have religious beliefs, it is better that way for humanity. If you are on of those people who would do criminal acts if you thought there was no hell, then I really pity you. Some of us have a superior sense of morality, and will not commit crimes whether or not the spycam is watching all our moves. These simplistic fairytales of eternal rewards for good behaviour and eternal torture for bad behaviour may be necessary for shallow people.

Nietzsche very astutely observed that such beliefs are made up by people who feel powerless. People who see their tormentors getting away with it, find solace in believing that a god would some day punish their tormentors with fire and brimstone and other nasty tortures, while he himself would be given candy and sweets in heaven. Powerless to wreak vengeance in reality, they soothe themselves with visions of another world to come.

Please watch this video about the superiority of secular morality over religious ones:

 

[zip]

@JUBA
According to ur logic its athiest who commit suicide and religious people rarely commit suicide ...If thats your logic then animals seems to be more religious then religious people since they wont commit suicide ..