World highest suicide rate - Korea, Japan, Russia, India and others

[janon]

I'm not trying to find reasons, it's well known that a person without morals and a higher power to judge him is more likely to commit crimes

No, it is not "well known". That's the assumption that religious people make. Real world data shows otherwise. It is religions that cause most conflicts, especially in your part of the world.

You asked for statistics of prison populations. Blogger Hemant Mehta recently used the freedom of information act to ask the Federal Bureau of prisons for this statistic. It was even stronger than we had believed earlier - only 0.07% of prisoners are atheists. 75% of Americans are christians, and roughly 75% of the prison population are also Christians. Around 10% of the population are atheists, but only 0.07% of prisoners are atheists.

Here is his blog post. If you simply google the keywords I told you "atheists prison USA" you will find more than enough credible links to support my claim.

What Percentage of Prisoners are Atheists? It’s a Lot Smaller Than We Ever Imagined

The bible is a corrupt book with many versions of it, if you want to base your morality test on a religion then do it on the true religion, Islam.

LOL. Now you are getting there. So being religious is not enough, a person also has to follow the "one true religion", which coincidentally happens to be your own. This is precisely why secular, rationally obtained moral values are superior - because those are grounded in reason, not in "god said so in a book thousands of years ago". Christians believed slavery was right because the bible supported it. Freethinkers challenged it. BTW islamic countries also practiced slavery, in fact into more recent times. Check out when slavery was abolished in Arab countries, and why. Muslim countries also changed their stance on the morality of slavery.

Earlier you said that religious morality is unchanging. And yet you say that the bible was corrupt, and another book had to be released by god. Billions of christians don't believe that new edition. Billion+ muslims do. Billion Buddhists disbelieve both.

All said and done, morality can only be arrived at by rational thinking, not by religious command. Atheists actually think about what is moral and what is immoral, and don't just check it up in a book.

 

[Ahmed Jo]

My data is from the United Nation your data is anonymous, there's no point in arguing in something crystal clear like this, religion indeed play a huge role in preventing crimes and giving morals, unlike Atheists religious people morals don't change through time, Atheists morals are linked with culture and state laws and can change easily, if tomorrow some states legalize rape, murder and theft you'll find atheists doing it since there's no power to stop them. by claiming that religion don't prevent crime and preserve morals you're going against logic, accept it the truth and don't try to deny it even if it's against what you believe in.

If these crimes were legalized, you'd find religious people doing them as well, in fact, probably more so than atheists. Morality is not something that comes from religion, it's a human concept as a result of human emotions such as empathy or being able to feel pain. When someone's only moral code is a book, they can justify all kinds of crimes as you see all over the world today. Are there any atheist terrorist groups out there who try to spread atheism by force? No, because THAT would be going against logic.

 

[janon]

If these crimes were legalized, you'd find religious people doing them as well, in fact, probably more so than atheists. Morality is not something that comes from religion, it's a human concept as a result of human emotions such as empathy or being able to feel pain. When someone's only moral code is a book, they can justify all kinds of crimes as you see all over the world today. Are there any atheist terrorist groups out there who try to spread atheism by force? No, because THAT would be going against logic.

It is amusing when religious people assume that atheists would all commit crimes, when a simple look around the world would show them that most large scale misery is caused by religious people, especially due to their religion. It wasn't atheists who flew planes into the WTC, it is not atheists who blow up people in Pakistan every day, it is not atheists who went murdering people in Mumbai on 26/11. It is not atheists who are murdering each other in the name of a god in Syria or Iraq even as I type this. For religious people, if they think that their religion permits something, then it is like a license to do so. All the people I mentioned above believed they would go to paradise. Atheists and freethinkers rationally analyze what is moral and what is immoral. They are not freed from the burden of thought because "a book said everything".

It is patently obvious that atheists are not the immoral people - religious people like @JUBA simply assume so, because to him it seems bewildering why an atheist would wish to be moral. That's how much religions brainwash people. Most religious scriptures teach that the infidels are evil and will roast in hell. So they are taught to hate atheists and anybody who doesn't follow their religion. It is religions that perpetuate such notions and teach hatred. If his religion teaches him that @Ravi Nair deserves to roast in hell and be tortured for eternity, then of course he also thinks such people are worthy of contempt and hate.

BTW he and @Indrani were joining forces to mock me, but I'm sure both of them believe the other's religion to be false. Indrani is a hardline hindutva person, and quite anti islam. And juba's beliefs teach that she will be tortured for being a pagan or non muslim. Religious people simply have to hate everybody who doesn't belong to their club.

 

[Indrani]

Actually that link was to something entirely different. If you had read the note on top (I didn't either) you would have realized that it is about crime reporting rate, not the prevalence of actual crime. And they specifically state that more reporting is an indicator of better policing. That also explains why India is ranked at the bottom - not because crime rate is low, but because reporting is. Here is the quote from that website:

LOL. I knew you would come up with this cop-out. It is just like in the case of rapes, Westoxicated do not want to admit that more rapes happen in the West than in India and find every reason on this planet to deny that. As long as you can see India at the bottom of every list you will be happy. Shame on you.

DEFINITION:Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to reportcrime, than actual prevalence. Figures expressed per thousand population for the same year.
Here is the proper measure of crime and peace:
Global Peace Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You will find that my point is valid. No @JUBA, it is not an "embarassing fail" for me. It is true that Scandinavian countries and other atheistic places have lower rates of crime. Other than North Korea, all the countries with most crime are highly religious. All the countries with low crime rates are very irreligious.

That is peace index is about insurgencies and conflicts and not about general crime in the society. So again you lose.

If these crimes were legalized, you'd find religious people doing them as well, in fact, probably more so than atheists. Morality is not something that comes from religion, it's a human concept as a result of human emotions such as empathy or being able to feel pain. When someone's only moral code is a book, they can justify all kinds of crimes as you see all over the world today. Are there any atheist terrorist groups out there who try to spread atheism by force? No, because THAT would be going against logic.

Morality comes from empathy but if the societal values do not encourage or reinforce it again and again through religious practices or some other form (not talking about law enforcement) then it does not take long for the society to degenerate into criminality very soon. There are broken and chaotic societies and there are moral societies. Law enforcement in that case at the best is only a band-aid on a cancerous lesion.

 

[janon]

LOL. I knew you would come up with this cop-out. It is just like in the case of rapes, Westoxicated do not want to admit that more rapes happen in the West than in India and find every reason on this planet to deny that. As long as you can see India at the bottom of every list you will be happy. Shame on you.

It isn't a cop out, it is the truth. It is written on that very website.

Also, I'm not here to win a debate, I'm here to explain things I care about. So I am not interested in these "shame on you" kind of statements, and strawmen about rapes in the west or personal attacks like I would be happy to see India at the bottom and so on.

That is peace index is about insurgencies and conflicts and not about general crime in the society. So again you lose.

The thread is also not about general crime in society, but about suicides. And BTW, the peace index also takes crime into account. Please read their criteria properly.

And to reiterate, I'm not here to win or loose, so cut the juvenile crap.

 

[Indrani]

It isn't a cop out, it is the truth. It is written on that very website.

Also, I'm not here to win a debate, I'm here to explain things I care about. So I am not interested in these "shame on you" kind of statements, and strawmen about rapes in the west or personal attacks like I would be happy to see India at the bottom and so on.

It is a cop-out and just because the website says it is an indication of crime reporting does not mean that other countries are not reporting crime. By that reasoning we should assume there is a war going on in India, Japan, Sweden, Brazil, and Vietnam but just not reported.

 

[janon]

It is a cop-out and just because the website says it is an indication of crime reporting does not mean that other countries are not reporting crime. By that reasoning we should assume there is a war going on in India, Japan, Sweden, Brazil, and Vietnam but just not reported.

Wait. You don't believe that very website about what their stats are about? Oh well.

The point is that crime reportage is not the issue here, prevalence of crime is. And yes, Nordic countries and Japan all have very low crime rates, India and Pakistan have much higher rates, despite being religious.

 

[Indrani]

The thread is also not about general crime in society, but about suicides. And BTW, the peace index also takes crime into account. Please read their criteria properly.
And to reiterate, I'm not here to win or loose, so cut the juvenile crap.

Yeah, but that was not the reason why you got in that link. You got that link to peddle your poison, atheism. India ranks very low in almost every crime possible including homicide. No do not go around making an excuse that homicides do not get reported in India.

Prison population by countries.

Homicide rate by countries

The only juvenile and dishonest person here is you.

 

[janon]

Yeah, but that was not the reason why you got in that link. You got that link to show to peddle your poison, atheism. India ranks very low in almost every crime possible including homicide. No do not go around making an excuse that homicides do not get reported in India.

Prison population by countries.

The only juvenile and dishonest person here is you.

Sigh. The proper comparison is among the same society - whether it is atheists or religious people who commit more crimess in the same environment. US federal bureau pf prisons makes that clear. I'm not aware of such a statistic compiled in Indian prisons, so cannot say whether most criminals in India are atheists. I do have a guess though.

Atheists are far less likely to commit crime, that is clear by the US data.

 

[Indrani]

Wait. You don't believe that very website about what their stats are about? Oh well.
The point is that crime reportage is not the issue here, prevalence of crime is. And yes, Nordic countries and Japan all have very low crime rates, India and Pakistan have much higher rates, despite being religious.

Oh well that link was brought in by you and whereas the data for the crime has been taken from the respective countries official data, the comment is just an observation and not supported by any data.

You missed the point. If despite data showing prevalence of crime in a society you want to spin the blame on reporting rather than read it for what it is, then one must all assume that apart from the daily killings by ISIS and other terrorist organizations reported in the daily newspapers, NZ, Australia, and India too have ISIS and other similar organizations killing off unarmed citizens by hundreds everyday, it is just not reported.

The Nordic countries have a very high prevalence of crime as shown by Sweden having a high rate of rapes. Plus they are piss poor countries population wise for you to even compare them with a country the size of India. There are many many Norways and Swedens in India that way.

 

[janon]

BTW @Indrani, you do realize that @JUBA and most muslims believe that you will be tortured in hell by god because you don't share their beliefs, right? It's funny that you should all join forces on this issue while believing each other to be lost.

 

[Indrani]

Sigh. The proper comparison is among the same society - whether it is atheists or religious people who commit more crimess in the same environment. US federal bureau pf prisons makes that clear. I'm not aware of such a statistic compiled in Indian prisons, so cannot say whether most criminals in India are atheists. I do have a guess though.
Atheists are far less likely to commit crime, that is clear by the US data.

Bullshit. Another weasling out. As clearly demonstrated by the atheists in all the countries ruled over by communism, they clearly were not shy of mass murder.

The proper comparison rule again does not hold for USA because most of the atheists there are from the richer section of the population. Those same people who run scams after scams and brought in the financial crisis in the world and those same guys who decide to bomb countries after countries and have killed people by their millions.

BTW @Indrani, you do realize that @JUBA and most muslims believe that you will be tortured in hell by god because you don't share their beliefs, right? It's funny that you should all join forces on this issue while believing each other to be lost

Yes, I am aware of it. But that was not the point. I did not get into the discussion to discuss the merits of Hinduism over Islam. Nor have I joined any forces with him. But that does not mean that when you are peddling crap and trying to seem like a saint doing so, I should not expose your game.

 

[janon]

Bullshit. Another weasling out. As clearly demonstrated by the atheists in all the countries ruled over by communism, they clearly were not shy of mass murder.
The proper comparison rule again does not hold for USA because most of the atheists there are from the richer section of the population. Those same people who run scams after scams and brought in the financial crisis in the world and those same guys who decide to bomb countries after countries and have killed people by their millions.

The point about communism has already been answered, and I cannot go around in circles.

Yes, I am aware of it. But that was not the point. I did not get into the discussion to discuss the merits of Hinduism over Islam. Nor have I joined any forces with him. But that does not mean that when you are peddling crap and trying to seem like a saint doing so, I should not expose your game.

Is it the "poison of atheism" (as you put it) that flew planes into WTC, or was it the poison of religion? Is it atheism that motivates all the beheadings and mass murder happening every day in the middle east, or is it religion?

Anyway since you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and continue doing unnecessarily belligerent statements like "peddling crap" and "exposing my game", I do not want to discuss it further with you. @JUBA was defending what he thinks is true, and to give him credit, doing so in a civil manner; you are here to win internet battles. That's silly. Good day.

 

[kalanirnay]

This is wrong belief that the poor of India are depressed or have a depressing environment. Most people are not.

The economic and social environment is most certainly depressing. Limited access to capital, non availability of schools, non availability of affordable healthcare etc. Though most people fight our emerge tougher, some still become victims.

Just try to imagine if you are a landless person in India with no education and no family.

 

[Indrani]

The economic and social environment is most certainly depressing. Limited access to capital, non availability of schools, non availability of affordable healthcare etc. Though most people fight our emerge tougher, some still become victims.
Just try to imagine if you are a landless person in India with no education and no family.

You are reporting their psychological environment from the perspective of a well-off upper middle class person. Whereas if you were in their shoe and never having known middle class life, your view would be different. Simply put any person has the capacity to adjust to their environment and their state of happiness does not depend on their material well being. Innumerable times this has been seen. There used to be regular reports in the 1980s of beggars running away from Beggar Homes established by the Municipality in Mumbai. In the Beggar Homes, a roof over head, food, clothing, and work was provided to them. Now you would think they would consider themselves fortunate to be in Beggar Homes rather than on the streets, but their repeated escaping from those institutions shows they rather preferred the freedom of the streets than the regular material comforts provided in the confined environment of the Homes..

Also family and society are the two things that are not lacking among the poor of India.

The point about communism has already been answered, and I cannot go around in circles.

The point about communism was brought in because you brought US prison stats to prove religious people are more prone to crime. Just like you explained the atheists in communist countries did not kill because of atheism, the religious folks in US did not commit crime because of their religious belief. Got it?

Is it the "poison of atheism" (as you put it) that flew planes into WTC, or was it the poison of religion? Is it atheism that motivates all the beheadings and mass murder happening every day in the middle east, or is it religion?
Anyway since you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and continue doing unnecessarily belligerent statements like "peddling crap" and "exposing my game", I do not want to discuss it further with you. @JUBA was defending what he thinks is true, and to give him credit, doing so in a civil manner; you are here to win internet battles. That's silly. Good day.

It is that poison atheism which killed millions in Pol Pot regime in Vietnam. Two can tango with such absurd co-relations. WTC was not done because Islam demanded it, but because US was sitting on their lands supporting dictators and all sorts of Perverts.

It is atheism that supports funding of the ISIS with weapons and other means of war. It is atheism of the Western countries which loots the Africans of their resources wealth and perpetuates war in their countries.

Now that you have been countered and shown to have faulty illogical arguments as well as what a heap of dung you were standing on while trying to claim high moral ground for being an atheist, run away. That is what people like you do when shown the mirror.