World highest suicide rate - Korea, Japan, Russia, India and others

[Indrani]

OK, now you are simply making stuff up to continue your internet crusade. I did not even mention hinduism, far from clubbing it with Abrahamic faiths.
And I asked you earlier to quote my post where I said that all the ills of the world are due to religion. If you cannot do that, maybe a little civility might be in order. I don't expect an apology, since that would be crediting you with a lot more integrity than you have, but the least you can do is to stop making up stupid statements and ascribing them to me.

What religion do you think I belong to if not Hinduism? You did claim that I would call out only my religion as the true religion and others as false. So when I said you were dragging in all religions, I did mean Hinduism too. Are you saying now that Hinduism is not included in category of religions you were speaking about? Or that you do not consider it to be a religion? If you do not consider it to be a religion, then what did you think I would compare Islam and Christianity against?

LOL. Apology is what is due from you. Unlike you I have lot more integrity and I do not try to weasel out of my own arguments like you did with the link you provided. All your arguments are in support of how religion is the cause of misery in this world.

I did not say or even imply that "all the ills of the world are due to religion". It is a lie from your part. And it sums up your modus operandi on most threads - make up strawmen arguments, statements that the other person never made, and then passionately counter them. Sorry, but I have no intention of indulging you further in that.

Oh yes you did. What else were you doing when arguing that societies with no belief have less crime? What is that called? What were you doing when trying to show up crimes of Islam?

 

[abjktu]

I know all that. The point was that lack of religion doesn't cause mass misery in the way religious beliefs (in some people) do. Most practioners of most religions are moral and peaceful. But religious beliefs in some people have made them do horrible things. Anyway, the original point is that atheism has nothing to do with suicide rates - India has one of the highest rates, and Indians are mostly religgious people, not atheists. So cherrypicking Japan and blaming atheism for it is called the Texas sharpshooter's fallacy. That was my only point to juba earlier.

well,its blind religious fundamentalism..
A true believer won't downplay other religions..if anyone starts thinking mine is better,only the dharmic one is good others are bad,or Abrahamic is the only hope to achieve salvation.blindness starts thereafter.....
Religion/atheism has nothing to do with suicide rate..i think its has more with ones family background,mental strength..personally i think a TRUE believer has more mental stability/strength than an atheist..

 

[Indrani]

Any kind of label comes with all kinds of pre conceived notions attached with it. Be it hindutva or middle class or upper middle class or poor or secular or whatever. It does not matter WHAT that pejorative is.

I am not sure I can make sense of this argument. What labeling and what pre-conceived notions? Are middle class supposed to have preconceived notions? Is that what you are trying to say? So if I call you a human, does even that become labeling and a pejorative? Did you think I used upper middle class as a pejorative? If I did that, it would be strange considering I am one myself.

The rate of population growth has actually decreases, so by your own definition it means we have stopped 'thriving'. You can see how wrong this method of measurement is.

The rate of population growth has not decreased to the extent that it can be called as not thriving. We are still adding huge numbers to our society, so yes we are thriving. Or you can take the example of the Japanese society and its worrisome declining population and say they are not thriving, but a society in decline. So the measurement standard holds.

Yes, the point I made was the poor has more probability of being depressed since we know for certain more of his life is in imbalance. Eg. social status, ego-satisfaction, respect, risk of hunger, lack of opportunity, health etc.
Love and other emotional support might be similar for both the rich and poor. The risk of extreme imbalance for the poor would be more for the mentioned reasons. That is why I mentioend the example, and for the fact that majority of India's population is poor, so statistically speaking more of them commit suicide than the well off.

Your argument is not borne off by stats at all. You bring no data to the table showing poor committing more suicide in India than the well off. Also as can be seen by the countries India has been clubbed with in this thread, Japan and South Korea and Russia have been included in the list and they are by no means "poor."

To a man with an empty stomach food is God. Spirituality is not of much use to him.

We are talking about poor and no there is no indication of mass starvation in this country. Yeah statisticians come up with malnourishment and what not, but that is not equal to starvation. As far as I know people do have 2 meals a day at least in this country even if it is plain boiled rice and watery dal.

well,its blind religious fundamentalism..
A true believer won't downplay other religions..if anyone starts thinking mine is better,only the dharmic one is good others are bad,or Abrahamic is the only hope to achieve salvation.blindness starts thereafter.....
Religion/atheism has nothing to do with suicide rate..i think its has more with ones family background,mental strength..personally i think a TRUE believer has more mental stability/strength than an atheist..

Stop with the Marxist bullshit. A true believer won't downplay other religions? Since when was this a criteria for being a believer? Or have you started your own definition dictionary or become a mullah deciding who is a true believer and who is not. We go by evidence to state which ones are not evil and which ones are faulty, not by empty rhetoric.

Given the crimes Abrahamists have committed you are trying to shield them as if they are all equal to other religions which have not done even a fraction of their crime is really a shame.

 

[kalanirnay]

I am not sure I can make sense of this argument. What labeling and what pre-conceived notions? Are middle class supposed to have preconceived notions? Is that what you are trying to say? So if I call you a human, does even that become labeling and a pejorative? Did you think I used upper middle class as a pejorative? If I did that, it would be strange considering I am one myself.

The one you apologised for.

The rate of population growth has not decreased to the extent that it can be called as not thriving. We are still adding huge numbers to our society, so yes we are thriving. Or you can take the example of the Japanese society and its worrisome declining population and say they are not thriving, but a society in decline. So the measurement standard holds.

It does not matter, your definition of thriving was like acceleration not velocity. A continuous increase over time. The fact is we are de-accelerating an if the trend holds we will end up like japan.

Your argument is not borne off by stats at all. You bring no data to the table showing poor committing more suicide in India than the well off. Also as can be seen by the countries India has been clubbed with in this thread, Japan and South Korea and Russia have been included in the list and they are by no means "poor."

No its not. Neither are yours. My point was India specific. You are the one arguing about rest of the world, not me.

We are talking about poor and no there is no indication of mass starvation in this country. Yeah statisticians come up with malnourishment and what not, but that is not equal to starvation. As far as I know people do have 2 meals a day at least in this country even if it is plain boiled rice and watery dal.

Of the 26 million children born every year, 1.6 million DIE of malnutrition. 1 in 3 deaths due to malnutrition happens in India even though we are only 1/6 the global population. Anyway this is off topic.

 

[Indrani]

The one you apologised for.

Well the apology was only meant if you took middle class to being a pejorative. I think it is a desirable position and one most countries aim to bring their maximum population at.

It does not matter, your definition of thriving was like acceleration not velocity. A continuous increase over time. The fact is we are de-accelerating an if the trend holds we will end up like japan.

It does matter. No I did not mention acceleration or velocity, neither did I hint at it. I just went by the normally held wisdom that population increases of all species given the availability of a conducive environment. Which is held as thriving.

No its not. Neither are yours. My point was India specific. You are the one arguing about rest of the world, not me.

Well even if you want to circumscribe the argument to only India, it is well off states which are reporting the maximum suicide and not the BIMARU states.

Of the 26 million children born every year, 1.6 million DIE of malnutrition. 1 in 3 deaths due to malnutrition happens in India even though we are only 1/6 the global population. Anyway this is off topic.

Malnutrition is again not starvation. You made the argument of "empty stomach." A plateful of rice will also suffice to fill up that empty stomach.

 

[kalanirnay]

It does matter. No I did not mention acceleration or velocity, neither did I hint at it. I just went by the normally held wisdom that population increases of all species given the availability of a conducive environment. Which is held as thriving.

Human societies are know to artificially control their population growth. Its wise not to compare it with any other species, though you are broadly correct

Well even if you want to circumscribe the argument to only India, it is well off states which are reporting the maximum suicide and not the BIMARU states.

So your point is that its not the poor who are killing themselves but the Rich and the middle class ?

Malnutrition is again not starvation. You made the argument of "empty stomach." A plateful of rice will also suffice to fill up that empty stomach.

It was a quote by Mahatma Gandhi. I just used it as I though you would recognize it.

Starvation is defined as a severe or total lack of nutrients needed for the maintenance of life. Malnutrition is most certainly considered starvation by any medical or non medical definition.

 

[Indrani]

So your point is that its not the poor who are killing themselves but the Rich and the middle class ?

My point is and was that our poor are not unhappy people anymore so than the rich or the middle class.

It was a quote by Mahatma Gandhi. I just used it as I though you would recognize it.
Starvation is defined as a severe or total lack of nutrients needed for the maintenance of life. Malnutrition is most certainly considered starvation by any medical or non medical definition.

I am sort of allergic to Mahatma Gandhi being a Godse supporter.

No, our poor are not dying off considering we used to be a country of 300 million poor at independence and have grown to be a country of 1.2 billion poor. In that poor, our wretched poor at still 300 million strong and by no means dying off.

Malnutrition is most certainly considered starvation by any medical or non medical definition.

No malnutrition cannot be considered starvation. Even these 2 here displayed in the photo are "malnourished." The exact meaning of malnourishment being improperly nourished.

 

[kalanirnay]

My point is and was that our poor are not unhappy people anymore so than the rich or the middle class.

I am sort of allergic to Mahatma Gandhi being a Godse supporter.

No, our poor are not dying off considering we used to be a country of 300 million poor at independence and have grown to be a country of 1.2 billion poor. In that poor, our wretched poor at still 300 million strong and by no means dying off.
No malnutrition cannot be considered starvation. Even these 2 here displayed in the photo are "malnourished." The exact meaning of malnourishment being improperly nourished.

That image is disingenuous.

Wretched poor or poverty line ? 65% live below poverty line i.e. around 800 Million people.

We cannot measure happiness, we only have statistics of those committing suicide.

This is the farmer suicide map of India,

This is the Crime map of India,

This is the poverty map of India,

This is the Religious map of India,

Draw your own conclusion.

 

[Indrani]

Wretched poor or poverty line ? 65% live below poverty line i.e. around 800 Million people.

Poverty line in India is around 25% or so, depending on which stats you want to look into. When politically expedient the whole of India is categorized as below poverty line as was done for the food security bill, likewise when they want to show they have done major work lifting people out of poverty, then 22-25% below poverty line figures are claimed. None of these stats are reliable considering people under report their earnings in India invariably for some or other benefit claim.

All the maps you show no corelation between poverty and suicide with MP, Bihar, UP, and Rajasthan having less suicide rate than the prosperous states down South.

Given the absolute lack of pastel shades except in Kerala, Western UP, and WB, India seems to be highly religious place. Do not know what other inference needs to be drawn from that?

 

[abjktu]

Poverty line in India is around 25% or so, depending on which stats you want to look into. When politically expedient the whole of India is categorized as below poverty line as was done for the food security bill, likewise when they want to show they have done major work lifting people out of poverty, then 22-25% below poverty line figures are claimed. None of these stats are reliable considering people under report their earnings in India invariably for some or other benefit claim.

All the maps you show no corelation between poverty and suicide with MP, Bihar, UP, and Rajasthan having less suicide rate than the prosperous states down South.

Given the absolute lack of pastel shades except in Kerala, Western UP, and WB, India seems to be highly religious place. Do not know what other inference needs to be drawn from that?

bow bow bow...
what religion has to do with the suicide rate in the country??..yes ,sickular and irreligious Kerala is one of the top 3 states in suicide rates..if that is the case.. Dharmic states Sikkim and Tamilnadu has more suicide rates than sikular Kerala..both Tamilnadu and sikkim boasts of 85% above darmic and highly religious believers....

 

[Indrani]

bow bow bow...
what religion has to do with the suicide rate in the country??..yes ,sickular and irreligious Kerala is one of the top 3 states in suicide rates..if that is the case.. Dharmic states Sikkim and Tamilnadu has more suicide rates than sikular Kerala..both Tamilnadu and sikkim boasts of 85% above darmic and highly religious believers....

Go and bark up some other place. Where did I claim that suicide and religion or irreligion has any co-relation?