Will Pakistan and India survive the next 50 years ?

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

When the entire world was on it's knees, when the Muslim world were slaves to foreign empires, Allah swt gave us Pakistan. Who did he give it too? What wealth did we have? What army did we have? What political sway did we have? Nothing.

He rewarded the sincerity of our forefathers. He rewarded our love for the Nizam of Mustafa, he rewarded those women who gave their jewelry to fund the warchest of the Khalifah, he rewarded those who would died but refused to fight against his army, he rewarded those who worried about our freedom and our diginity in our lands, he rewarded those who would die to reach our land and those who would die to defend it.

Only Allah can create something from nothing and He did. Our forefathers did everything they could to create this land, as long as we do everything we can to sustain it and make it a bastion of justice and a place where Islamic principles are applied and not undermined - nobody can undo Pakistan - other than the one who created it.

My entire life I've seen many experts talk about the impending doom of Pakistan - it's never happened and it never will. All anyone needs to do to ensure that is to be productive in whatever it is you do, keep within the boundaries of halal, be honest and don't take anyone elses Haq. Do that and we will flourish. It's not about prayers or mysticism or weapons, or wealth - it's about good intentions.

Even a few hours after Pakistan was created, many said we would cease to exist before December 1947. None of which came true. I believe in the next 50-100 years, not only will Pakistan survive but it will become way more prosperous, advanced and powerful than we can currently imagine. China will play a crucial role in this. Also, their will be a revival of Islamic civilizational power on the global stage. This will in part be led by the Muslims in Europe who are increasing exponentially in numbers due to high birth rates, immigration and the white europeans dying out and having low birth rates. Demographics are destiny.

 

[jamahir]

Not sure about Mars but Pakistan is and will continue to be in Indian nightmares if this is what you wanted to know.

Disappointed with your answer. I wanted a deeper answer.

i dont care. whoever wants to go to Mars can go to Mars.

I want to go. I hope. By the mid-2030s.

Communism is disgusting for those that believe in God. also, communism requires people to be secular, and non-religious.

Firstly, below is the Google result for "Communism" :

Communism is a philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state. Wikipedia

Why should such a set of wonderful and humane ideas be disgusting ? What is your objection to them ?

Secondly, it is not necessary that you have to have disbelief in God to be a Communist or at least be influenced by it. I quote from my thread from 2016. The OP is an article by Nadeem Paracha :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

capitalists are already doing that in the West and we can see their depopulation and countdown to extinction beginning to take shape. society cant last long with God.

What are capitalists in the West doing ? Do you think the American military-industrialist complex will allow a communist movement to attain governance in America ?

 

[313ghazi]

When the entire world was on it's knees, when the Muslim world were slaves to foreign empires, Allah swt gave us Pakistan. Who did he give it too? What wealth did we have? What army did we have? What political sway did we have? Nothing.

He rewarded the sincerity of our forefathers. He rewarded our love for the Nizam of Mustafa, he rewarded those women who gave their jewelry to fund the warchest of the Khalifah, he rewarded those who would died but refused to fight against his army, he rewarded those who worried about our freedom and our diginity in our lands, he rewarded those who would die to reach our land and those who would die to defend it.

Only Allah can create something from nothing and He did. Our forefathers did everything they could to create this land, as long as we do everything we can to sustain it and make it a bastion of justice and a place where Islamic principles are applied and not undermined - nobody can undo Pakistan - other than the one who created it.

My entire life I've seen many experts talk about the impending doom of Pakistan - it's never happened and it never will. All anyone needs to do to ensure that is to be productive in whatever it is you do, keep within the boundaries of halal, be honest and don't take anyone elses Haq. Do that and we will flourish. It's not about prayers or mysticism or weapons, or wealth - it's about good intentions.

Me of a few years ago would have read this post and thought - what kind of bakwas is this? How do good intentions keep a country together? Let me explain.

1. Blessings of Allah. Our Religion teaches us that we can have faith that Allah will forgive any transgressions we have made against his orders where we have not fulfilled our duties to him. Missed prayers, drink, drugs, debauchery, whatever we do wrong - as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, we can hope he will forgive us. It also teaches us that if we wrong another being, the only way we can be forgiven that sin, is if that being forgives us. That puts an emphasis on preserving the rights of others as a religious duty upon us.

2. Haq of others. I have discussed the spiritual aspect of it, but we need to consider the social impact. Harmony comes from perserving the rights of others. If we don't transgress against each other, if we are considerate towards others in all our actions (regardless of if they reciprocate) then there will be greater harmony within our nation, and within ourselves. What threatens us more today than disharmony?

3. Halal. I'm not talking about just your meat or your perfumes. I'm talking about right and wrong, about earning, about not cheating, honesty in business and professional settings and within legal constraints. Abuse of the law holds us back as a society. If we focus on halal actions - we will not commit legal violations and won't facilitate them either. Again it builds a stronger and safer society.

4. Productivity. Nothing more to this than just old fashioned hard work. People seem to align the path of Tassawuf and the actions of the pious with some sort of desi hippy movement. Hard work is key to the success of our nation. We need to work faster, we need to work more intelligently and we need to create better products. It will build our enonomy and only then can we build anything physical. Prayers alone don't build schools, roads, hospitals or weapons. We have low productivity as a nation and we have scatter gun creativity and business processes. We need to become more productive and more professional.

It's not hard when you break it down, but these things have to be done by inidividuals to build nations. Words don't help, no policy or govt programme can bring this change. only each individual can.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Firstly, below is the Google result for "Communism" :

Why should such a set of wonderful and humane ideas be disgusting ? What is your objection to them ?

What are capitalists in the West doing ? Do you think the American military-industrialist complex will allow a communist movement to attain governance in America ?

there is a lot of overlap between West and communism. both believe in secularism and religion not playing any major part of life. we can see that as society starts drifting away from religion, their greed increases. greed for wealth, sex, and comfort. all this has destructive consequences for society. one of the consequences is death of marriage, rising divorce rates, below replacement birth rate, leading to an aging population, the workers (young people) being taxed up to the eyeballs just to pay for the social services and pensions of the growing proportion of retirees voter base, increase in investment in healthcare due to rising proportion of elderly, declining investment in education and long term projects due to the decline in the youth voter base. eventually the remaining youth leave the country, leaving only the old and that is the end of that country. we see this happening right now in many countries in Europe and South America. communism is all this, except on steroids. this idea of communism is a wet, unrealistic dream, from the minds of stupid peasants.

 

[peagle]

Kudos to your sport spirit, took that jibe with heart.

However I disagree, the existing Pakistan has let go her roots, history and somehow count Qasim as first pakistani. How many kids know the history of land?

To be honest, I didn't take it as a jibe, because it was factual, and a little play or naughtiness is always welcome. Only when it is based on untruths, does it become sour.

Now back to the discussion, history remains alive whether it is known or not, knowledge can be lost through time, but that does not mean it has ceased to exist, it remains alive awaiting to be rediscovered.

Archaeology and history are based on that very precept. History and heritage remain with the land, and in the blood of its people. It is a well known, established, and a settled fact of life,

 

[nahtanbob]

unlikely that USA and Iran will ever become very peaceful when Iran and Israel dont like each other, and now the Gulf Arabs are in Israel's camp.



unlikely because CPEC is already here. Gulf Arabs wont want to make those investments in Iran over Pakistan.



if its not a problem for USA, China and others, then its not a problem for Pakistan. for you everything bad in Pakistan is bad, and everything good in Pakistan is also bad. you act like an intellectual even though everyone can see your bias. fu*k knows what you are even doing here.

Friendships and rivalries change all the time. To think otherwise is foolish. With renewables, electric cars and shale oil Iran's importance has diminished. USA and Iran have nothing to fight about in the long run.

The population growth in Pakistan is a problem for the Pakistani state and Pakistani society. Quit pretending otherwise.

 

[jamahir]

this idea of communism is a wet, unrealistic dream, from the minds of stupid peasants.

The idea of Communism is why the FARC guerrillas in Columbia and the Naxalites in India have been agitating for so long ( since the 1960s ), also to mention the public socialist / communist movements in India and elsewhere. The beginning of the Naxalite movement was of peasants and tribals who rebelled against the rural feudal system after being enlightened by the then enlightened middle class students and academia. You cannot call these peasants as stupid. Every oppressed person, every person of independent mind, if given time and information, will like Communism.

Communism is an extremely intellectual idea that seeks harmony with Nature the most. Please read the thread I linked before.

increase in investment in healthcare due to rising proportion of elderly

Healthcare should be free. This is a given.

declining investment in education and long term projects due to the decline in the youth voter base.

1. Again, education should be free. This is a given.

2. Voters ? Why should there even be a system where there are parties ( where single, two or multi ) ? This sham of "democratic" five-yearly elections should be abolished.

3. Long term projects... In the 1970s ( or perhaps 60s ) the USSR had a program for manned settlement of Mars by the 1980s. Surely you can admire this.

there is a lot of overlap between West and communism. both believe in secularism and religion not playing any major part of life.

If the Western governments want secularism why do they subvert and invade those Muslim-majority countries that are socialist / secular ? Why do these Western governments then install in those Muslim-majority countries movements that are regressive and mullah-led ? Take Libya, Syria and Afghanistan for example. In Afghanistan the Western militaries are leaving the country basically with the Taliban in charge. Why ?

greed for wealth, sex, and comfort.

Comfort is the basic right of every human. Why do you want a person to be artificially and needlessly troubled for basic necessities like food, healthcare, transportation, internet, basic clothing etc ? In India people are hungry, blind and cancered only because they don't have money. Same would be for Pakistan.

Please read this thread of mine where I have proposed a new economic system which operates along communist lines : where a person will not be artificially troubled and where one person will not be artificially richer than another person.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Friendships and rivalries change all the time. To think otherwise is foolish. With renewables, electric cars and shale oil Iran's importance has diminished. USA and Iran have nothing to fight about in the long run.

The population growth in Pakistan is a problem for the Pakistani state and Pakistani society. Quit pretending otherwise.

here is a challenge for you. tell me some good things about Pakistan.

The idea of Communism is why the FARC guerrillas in Columbia and the Naxalites in India have been agitating for so long ( since the 1960s ), also to mention the public socialist / communist movements in India and elsewhere. The beginning of the Naxalite movement was of peasants and tribals who rebelled against the rural feudal system after being enlightened by the then enlightened middle class students and academia. You cannot call these peasants as stupid. Every oppressed person, every person of independent mind, if given time and information, will like Communism.

Communism is an extremely intellectual idea that seeks harmony with Nature the most. Please read the thread I linked before.



Healthcare should be free. This is a given.



1. Again, education should be free. This is a given.

2. Voters ? Why should there even be a system where there are parties ( where single, two or multi ) ? This sham of "democratic" five-yearly elections should be abolished.

3. Long term projects... In the 1970s ( or perhaps 60s ) the USSR had a program for manned settlement of Mars by the 1980s. Surely you can admire this.



If the Western governments want secularism why do they subvert and invade those Muslim-majority countries that are socialist / secular ? Why do these Western governments then install in those Muslim-majority countries movements that are regressive and mullah-led ? Take Libya, Syria and Afghanistan for example. In Afghanistan the Western militaries are leaving the country basically with the Taliban in charge. Why ?



Comfort is the basic right of every human. Why do you want a person to be artificially and needlessly troubled for basic necessities like food, healthcare, transportation, internet, basic clothing etc ? In India people are hungry, blind and cancered only because they don't have money. Same would be for Pakistan.

Please read this thread of mine where I have proposed a new economic system which operates along communist lines : where a person will not be artificially troubled and where one person will not be artificially richer than another person.

there is no point debating you. you are doing the same thing all communists do. your entire thesis is based on looking at human nature how you want it to be instead of how it is.

 

[Adonis]

As the inheritor of Indus Valley Civilisation, I know Pakistan is 5000 plus years old,

India has only been around for 70 odd years, all other times it was either ruled by foreigners, or everyone lived in their own areas, that's why you all have different languages, cultures, and foods. You all even look different, and different version of Hinduism, a name given by foreigners, you couldn't even give yourself a name, because you were never a single entity.

So,
Pakistan has a heritage going back to the Indus Valley Civilisation.
India has nothing but make-believe fantasies.

Seriously?... What about 150 million years as Dinosaurs used to roam in that land.

How much we try, It's still Indian subcontinent, Indian ocean, Himalayas, Hindu-kush mountains, to the world....History can't be distorted based on ones whims and fancies.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Thread is in response to this question:


It is off topic and we can have a separate thread on that. My short answer is both India and Pakistan are unlikely to survive as nations for the next 50 years so the question is moot. We will have nuked ourselves into the stone age. Pakistan is in extreme danger of being annihilated by a savage and extremely vicious regime that is grossly ignorant of the
repurcussions.

In my opinion, Pakistan and India will not nuke each other, rather they will disintegrate in smaller pieces of land. It will be because of the environment the people of these countries have set. I can already see the big civil wars in India and Pakistan...

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

There are 200 million plus people

Most of the people at least profess to be religious

It has fertile land with Indus river waters

You are attempting to setup a representative government unlike a lot of Muslim states

Shan curry powder tastes good. I assume it is a Pakistani brand. So does Pakistani briyanis

The ancestor of whales is an animal called Pakecitus whose fossils were found in Pakistan

@PakistaniAtBahrain

great. see. not everything is bad in Pakistan. the new generation of Pakistan is different from the old, and we can see that with PTI getting elected. that, along with better governance, CPEC, better and smarter diplomatic relations will see Pakistan prosper.

Seriously?... What about 150 million years as Dinosaurs used to roam in that land.

How much we try, It's still Indian subcontinent, Indian ocean, Himalayas, Hindu-kush mountains, to the world....History can't be distorted based on ones whims and fancies.

this just shows Pakistan is the real inheritors of Indus civilisation, including all the things named after it, from mountains to ocean. India is just a copycat.

 

[jamahir]

there is no point debating you. you are doing the same thing all communists do. your entire thesis is based on looking at human nature how you want it to be instead of how it is.

Are you saying that human nature is one of treachery and cruelty and that it should be allowed to prevail ?

So you want to live in a society where you are forced to pay money ( which is an artificial thing ) for even the basic necessities, where people compete with each other for money, where regressive traditions prevail, where human rights are trampled upon ?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

we are 5000 years old civilization

We are 8,000 year old civilization. Read "MehrGarh".

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Are you saying that human nature is one of treachery and cruelty and that it should be allowed to prevail ?

So you want to live in a society where you are forced to pay money ( which is an artificial thing ) for even the basic necessities, where people compete with each other for money, where regressive traditions prevail, where human rights are trampled upon ?

like i said there is no point debating you. you believe in a utopia. muslims will do things our way, hindus will do it their way, and let the communists do things their way.

 

[nahtanbob]

great. see. not everything is bad in Pakistan. the new generation of Pakistan is different from the old, and we can see that with PTI getting elected. that, along with better governance, CPEC, better and smarter diplomatic relations will see Pakistan prosper.


this just shows Pakistan is the real inheritors of Indus civilisation, including all the things named after it, from mountains to ocean. India is just a copycat.

seriously indus civilization is a extinct one