Will Pakistan and India survive the next 50 years ?

[Indus Pakistan]

British Empire in India

Their base was Calcutta [Kolkatta] in Bengal and I dated it from 1772 as it was the capital of their Raj which is about 170 years.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Their base was Calcutta [Kolkatta] in Bengal and I dated it from 1772 as it was the capital of their Raj which is about 170 years.

Yes But were they controlling whole or even majority of coterminous India from 1772? ...that seems to have been the case only from 1818..

already timestamped the evolution of subcontinent from 1750 onwards

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Agree with you our enmity with India is permanent now and foreseeable future.
But a little introspection is important also.
1. There have been centrist and left wing supported governments in India that did not play the "deep state " hawks game. I.K. Gujral himself of West Pakistani origin, was of a different mindset than Indira Gandhi, and so was Dev Gowda a South Indian. Narasimha Rao, though a Congressman was far more pragmatic than the Gandhi family. Defence ministers such as George Fernandez, A.K.Anthony, and Mulayam Singh Yadav were far removed from the Hindutva mind set. So were Indian Army COAS S.F. Rodrigues and V.Mallik. If there was ever an opportunity to ward off the threat of mutual destruction that is facing us today it would have been with outreaches to these people.


2. Today we are facing a grim future, The Indian mindset is in the grip of religious fundamentalist insanity fueled by hyper jingoistic media, that is falsely peddling the myth of invincibility of the Indian armed forces.
The normally professional capabilities of India's military commanders has significantly changed .
COAS K.Sundarji had a double Masters in International and Defence Studies. Sam Manekshaw except for a one year stint at the Imperial Defence College London, had no University degrees, but he was of the old secular school. Bipin Rawat CDS has an honorary MPhil from University of Meerut which is hardly in the Ivy League .
The previous Indian generals up to General Mallik were strictly apolitical though Manekshaw made very disparaging statements about Indira Gandhi calling her "Sweetie". ( Wonder what Mrs. Manekshaw thought ! ).
The present group of Indian commanders are far more likely to fall into a self serving prophecy and be carried away both by delusions and the own propaganda. Never in the history of the Indian armed forces have we heard such ridiculous statements such as are coming now. It would have been funny were it not for a very serious and real threat of a pre-emptive nuclear attack. Just as India's prime minister believed that Pakistani radars didn't work in fog and rain on February 19, 2019, ( and no one contradicted him), it is likely that an Indian COAS with limited education will believe that Pakistan will be wiped out in a surprise missile attack and whatever few missiles Pakistan can launch before it is itself hit will be successfully intercepted by India's Ballistic Missile Defense. Social media and controlled media in India are peddling just this lie to the Indian masses that "Hindu" technology based on ancient Vedic science is so advanced that no missile can touch India. Not even the Israelis are so sure of their Arrow BMD to consider making a pre-emptive strike on their enemy.
Living on fantasies like 1 billion Pakistani soldiers captured in Dhaka, 11000 "terrorists " killed in Balakot, 300, Chinese troops killed in Galwan, is feeding a madness into the entire public perceptions, political, military, diplomatic, and masses . A country feeding on extreme religious frenzy and mass hysteria is very dangerous. We don't have to go very far to see the delusions. These are evident right here on PDF.
Next: Why India's desire for revenge and desire to destroy Pakistan ,

Agreed apart from the part where we Pakistanis are facing a grim future. Because of our growing and advancing nuclear weapons program; our strong military capabilities and our battle-hardened 200 milion population, the indians will not dare mess with Pakistan or even think about fighting us. They will talk a lot, blow a lot of hot air and bark like dogs especially on the internet but will not physically do anything as far as Pakistan is concerned. The minorities in india particularly the indian Muslims most likely face a grim future in india but certainly not us.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Neither India nor Pakistan had any idea of the Indus Valley Civilization even a mere 100 years back...It is extremely artificial for both Indians and Pakistanis to extend their historical memory back to Indus valley Civilization.. (Yes 40 percent of IVC is in conterminous India including biggest ports and sites)...I agree with @jamahir that the start of historical memory goes back to 3,500 years and no more..

 

[Baibars_1260]

Gentlemen,

Quick answers to a simple question:

What is the possibility that a delusional Indian missile commander (after applying chillies and lemons )!on an Agni 1, or Prithvi
will launch 6 of these on Islamabad to take out the Prime Minister and GHQ ?
Can we give a quantifying percentage chance such as 50%, ? thanks

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

we survived 71, Soviets on our doorstep, and War on Terror. so i think we can survive another 50 years. hopefully no more unnecessary wars and focus on development, and we will thrive in the next 50 years. as for India, if muslim population % rises and Hindutva agenda remains strong, then India will grow weaker internally in the next 50 years, in terms of social cohesion.

There is a secret weapon India has to stop population growth-----extreme inflation..It has worked on the middle class Hindus in the 90s and mid 00s...It has worked on poorer Hindus (the majority) 2010s onwards..It is working and will work on Muslims too

Gentlemen,

Quick answers to a simple question:

What is the possibility that a delusional Indian missile commander (after applying chillies and lemons )!on an Agni 1, or Prithvi
will launch 6 of these on Islamabad to take out the Prime Minister and GHQ ?
Can we give a quantifying percentage chance such as 50%, ? thanks

India wont deploy such weapons unless fighting for survival..war or not..neither India or Pakistan will survive the present configuration because of the impending doom of climate change..its too late to reverse it now...More like Indians and Pakistanis would be gunned down by the millions while trying to escape to Europe and Russia....This huge blindspot of the subcontinental leadership is terrifying

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

• Insecurity about a variety of Pakistani physical traits, including but not limited to fair skin, tall stature, muscular build, deeper voice, and of course, **** size. India has the smallest **** size in the world, while Pakistan's is the second highest . Depends on which study you use. Either way, Pakistan is bigger in every one of them. I have a map of this data too, but mods removed it last time I posted it so I won't.

that reminds me

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Gentlemen,

Quick answers to a simple question:

What is the possibility that a delusional Indian missile commander (after applying chillies and lemons )!on an Agni 1, or Prithvi
will launch 6 of these on Islamabad to take out the Prime Minister and GHQ ?
Can we give a quantifying percentage chance such as 50%, ? thanks

0%. One thing I know about indians is that they are all hot air and talk. Nothing more. They don't have the courage or guts to do the above. They are even below the standard of beta males.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Is the real threat to Pakistan, war or financial and economic collapse which leads to disintegration of central authority and thus the nation. Like the nations of Zimbabwe and Weimar Germany. Germany only continued to exist because other peoples spent their wealth to rebuild the place.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

There is a secret weapon India has to stop population growth-----extreme inflation..It has worked on the middle class Hindus in the 90s and mid 00s...It has worked on poorer Hindus (the majority) 2010s onwards..It is working and will work on Muslims too

you will find it doesnt work that much on muslims. on top of that the longer hindutva stays strong, the more muslims will relocate to muslim strongholds and it will eventually become a muslim majority. then we are going to have another Kashmir on our hands.

India wont deploy such weapons unless fighting for survival..war or not..neither India or Pakistan will survive the present configuration because of the impending doom of climate change..its too late to reverse it now...More like Indians and Pakistanis would be gunned down by the millions while trying to escape to Europe and Russia....This huge blindspot of the subcontinental leadership is terrifying

you can blame the indians for the nukes. they were the ones who made it first. Pakistan wasnt even interested in that technology until India made one and blew it up. as for climate change, you will see Pakistan is actually doing a lot about it. from planting trees, digitalising government, etc. not sure how good/bad India is doing on that front.

Pakistan meets UN climate change goal a decade ahead of deadline

Islamabad: Though among the countries most vulnerable to global warming, Pakistan has passed a crucial milestone on the road to environmental protection by meeting the overarching United Nations...

www.thenews.com.pk

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Is the real threat to Pakistan, war or financial and economic collapse which leads to disintegration of central authority and thus the nation. Like the nations of Zimbabwe and Weimar Germany. Germany only continued to exist because other peoples spent their wealth to rebuild the place.

The real threat to Pakistan is the same real threat to India..Climate Change

I would be surprised if a million subcontinentals donot get killed while trying to cross the border to the Global North..the hard immigration policies 2030s onwards in the West, will have cause more upheavals in these two countries rather than any cross border enmity...If a hard lockdown comes on immigration, expect High IQ Pakistanis and Indians to completely change the established order...the way inept,incompetent,corrupt leaderships have been able to thrive in South Asia is precisely because the High IQ cream could leave for greener pastures and not forment revolutions back home to make South Asia more like the West economically (if not high West like Western Europe, then at least low West like Brazil,Mexico,Balkans)

you will find it doesnt work that much on muslims. on top of that the longer hindutva stays strong, the more muslims will relocate to muslim strongholds and it will eventually become a muslim majority. then we are going to have another Kashmir on our hands.



you can blame the indians for the nukes. they were the ones who made it first. Pakistan wasnt even interested in that technology until India made one and blew it up. as for climate change, you will see Pakistan is actually doing a lot about it. from planting trees, digitalising government, etc. not sure how good/bad India is doing on that front.

Pakistan meets UN climate change goal a decade ahead of deadline

Islamabad: Though among the countries most vulnerable to global warming, Pakistan has passed a crucial milestone on the road to environmental protection by meeting the overarching United Nations...

www.thenews.com.pk

Those steps that have been taken are peanuts.......without a complete change in the world order, climate change cannot be solved..and anyways its too late...

you will find it doesnt work that much on muslims. on top of that the longer hindutva stays strong, the more muslims will relocate to muslim strongholds and it will eventually become a muslim majority. then we are going to have another Kashmir on our hands.

Muslims of Kerala have lower birth rate than Hindus of UP,Bihar...you need to align your fertility ideology wth reality

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Those steps that have been taken are peanuts.......without a complete change in the world order, climate change cannot be solved..and anyways its too late...

there is nothing we can do about it. we have met the targets that were set for us and are still doing more.

Muslims of Kerala have lower birth rate than Hindus of UP,Bihar...you need to align your fertility ideology wth reality

yeah i am aware of the Kerala muslims birth rate. but that doesnt count for all the muslims does it? no, it doesnt. since muslims having a low birth rate is rare, thats why you could only think of one example and it just so happens i already know about them because i read about it a while back. you need to align your view of India's trajectory with the reality of how muslims will eventually react as hindutva radicalises the hindus and the muslims of india.

 

[Baibars_1260]

0%. One thing I know about indians is that they are all hot air and talk. Nothing more. They don't have the courage or guts to do the above. They are even below the standard of beta males.

May disagree here. When they get the opportunity they do this :
Link. Western Front 1971.

I am afraid the enemy we are facing can be very cruel and ruthless. The only saving grace is that they frequently underestimate the adversary and come up short.
It is not a question that they won't dare. It is a question whether how foolish they are.
A pre-emptive air strike was made in February 2019. The enemy has been attempting to penetrate our airspace since 1959 ( Canberra was shot down). Our enemy's ally the Soviet Union openly threatened a nuclear attack on us in 1960.

Our enemy looks to a big power status demonstrations
Which is why it is likely that our enemy will underestimate the response to a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

fertility ideology wth reality

Hahaha ..

expect High IQ Pakistanis and Indians to completely change the established order

Interesting point. Both countries have lost lot of talent to the West. If they had been restricted to home then that might have led to pressure for change.

were they controlling whole or even majority of coterminous India from 1772?

It can get complicated so I tend to use the date when major base was established. I use 1849 for the date when British took over coterminous Pakistan which means they ruled us for 98 years. However understand that parts of coterminous were still contested in 1940s on borders of NWFP. To make is easier I use the date when they first established their rule in the region.

Indus Valley Civilization

Whether you knew about something does not detract from it being your heritage. If you find gold under your land and it all comes aas a surprise it still is your.

Indus Valley Civilization was clustered around Indus River which is analogous to Pakistan. The civilization that took root on the Nile spread down the Nile Valley and is found in Sudan and even has traces in Somalia. But we all associate it with modern Egypt because it is the foci. Ditto for IVC whose foci is in Pakistan. It spreads out into Afghanistan and India but the gravity is in Pakistan.

 

[KurtisBrian]

The real threat to Pakistan is the same real threat to India..Climate Change

I would be surprised if a million subcontinentals donot get killed while trying to cross the border to the Global North..the hard immigration policies 2030s onwards in the West,

just a million? that is not how how real fights in the "West" go. Look at what the Romans did...killed every male Gaul, Celti-Iberian and Corinthian of fighting age, sold everyone else into slavery. Germans, destroyed Rome. How about the Spanish and Portuguese in the New World...Aztecs, Inca, Mayans gone gone gone. No peace with the WW1 and 2 Germans until they were broken.

expect High IQ Pakistanis and Indians to completely change the established order

Maybe but seems to me that India already had a revolution. High IQ Indians made India what it is. Other Indians only wanted more money and an easy life so willingly left to serve anyone who would provide it. If those people cannot leave they will serve those in power to get money.

Whether you knew about something does not detract from it being your heritage. If you find gold under your land and it all comes aas a surprise it still is your.

Telling the "Gods" that what they built is yours, your heritage. You got balls, man.