Will Indonesia's idea for an Asian peace treaty fly?

[Nike]

You don´t need to convince me, but the Chinese.

If you haven´t noticed, they don´t want other nations to meddle their business. China´s strategy is clear: bilateral negotiation. So they can better impose their will through their sheer overwhelming power, with long term goal to oust the U.S. out of Asia.

As for Indonesia, you should take care of what you do and talk. Chinese have long memory.

Yes they had.
Trying to pursue a bad peace is still much better than to start a just war, IMHO.

 

[Zero_wing]

our friend from Indonesia fails to understand that China doesn´t want to talk to any other parties except Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei in the SC Sea and Japan in the EC Sea disputes.

But their heart is in the right place though let them try we all knew it will fail but think about it if it fails at less its other nail in china's coffin

 

[Snomannen]

Are you back in HK? Actually we don´t hate the Han´s, we just got problem with some of their attitudes.

Yes, back to the glorrrrious motherland.
That means hate then.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

the europeans never fought? What were the world wars then? a hug between friends? There are recent wars too if you want to look it up. Learning history won't kill you.

as to this treaty, treaties only work when someone can enforce it, but the day is soon that US will not be able to access Asia. China don't have to be stronger at the moment just enough to deny access. And guess what, that would make us the undisputed master of Asia.

You know what that means?

Us doesn't need to access chinese waters to shut down china,as long as china doesn't have a navy that can fight USN on equal terms on any ocean in the world.Its seaborne oil and other imports upon which modern economy s reliant are hostage to USN blockade.

 

[Genesis]

Us doesn't need to access chinese waters to shut down china,as long as china doesn't have a navy that can fight USN on equal terms on any ocean in the world.Its seaborne oil and other imports upon which modern economy s reliant are hostage to USN blockade.

You know you guys keep saying this is 2013 and not imperialism era anymore.

Who really has no idea. China imports oil, it's not a favor, it's business. It benefits us as much as the seller. Seeing as we are a stable, and huge customer, you don't think a country would just give up on that would it.

Besides, with Russia oil, and a route in Pakistan, is the US going to take on Russia and occupy Pakistan?

Let me say this another way, how would the Indians feel if Pakistan is taken over by Americans, would you be cool with it?

Besides, neither the US nor China will go too far. There is still MAD involved.

 

[Wholegrain]

A reminder to everyone, Taiwan also unilaterally claims all the spratly and paracel islands. It is not going to surrender control of any of them or join asean in negotiations.

Us doesn't need to access chinese waters to shut down china,as long as china doesn't have a navy that can fight USN on equal terms on any ocean in the world.Its seaborne oil and other imports upon which modern economy s reliant are hostage to USN blockade.

China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider

Chinese Missiles Could Close U.S. Bases in Attack, Report Says - Bloomberg

Navy Lacks Targets to Test U.S. Defenses Against China Missile - Businessweek

China

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

A reminder to everyone, Taiwan also unilaterally claims all the spratly and paracel islands. It is not going to surrender control of any of them or join asean in negotiations.



China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider

Chinese Missiles Could Close U.S. Bases in Attack, Report Says - Bloomberg

Navy Lacks Targets to Test U.S. Defenses Against China Missile - Businessweek

China

All that in the SCS,who protects ur trade routes?None.US controls them.

 

[Aegis DDG]

All that in the SCS,who protects ur trade routes?None.US controls them.

True. The 7th Fleet is the undisputed leader of the Western Pacific nevertheless Long range ICBM (DF-21D) and CM/AshM can cause damage to supply deports in places as far as Guam, thereby denying the USN an route to the SCS's important choke points for an long period of time. This would allow the Chinese to forify their positions in the pacific and follow it's main defense doctrine of AA (Anti-Access)/Anti-Denial when the USN recovers. That's why the JMSDF is so important for the Americans.

 

[Rechoice]

A reminder to everyone, Taiwan also unilaterally claims all the spratly and paracel islands. It is not going to surrender control of any of them or join asean in negotiations.



China's Plan To Sink US Navy - Business Insider

Chinese Missiles Could Close U.S. Bases in Attack, Report Says - Bloomberg

Navy Lacks Targets to Test U.S. Defenses Against China Missile - Businessweek

China

TW robbed Itu Aba from south Vietnam 1956. We can take it back, in time.

 

[ViXuyen]

Are you back in HK? Actually we don´t hate the Han´s, we just got problem with some of their attitudes.

Apparently, the Viet Cong kids at trai tim viet nam don't agree with you

 

[Wholegrain]

TW robbed Itu Aba from south Vietnam 1956. We can take it back, in time.

Yes, TW robbed Itu Aba from the nonexistent Vietnamese garrison and invisible civilian population stationed on the island.

Spratly Islands (reefs, South China Sea) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Vietnam Joins the World - Google Books

Where in the World is the Philippines?: Debating Its National Territory - Rodolfo Severino - Google Books

The Law of the Sea and Northeast Asia: A Challenge for Cooperation - Hmi-gwOn Pak - Google Books

And thats why Vietnam whines every time Taiwan holds a live fire drill on Taiping and does nothing about it.

Taiwan stages live-fire drill in contested Spratlys

Taiwan unmoved by Vietnam's protest against Taiping drill - The China Post

Taiwan reiterates claim over Taiping amid Vietnam protest - Taiwan News Online

 

[jhungary]

If you want to have a treaty in Asia and you want to invite China to said Treaty. Given you know for sure that China is or going to be larger than all of the Rest of Asia combine. What would the rest of Asia get from said treaty then??

If you are to include a treaty of non-aggression as such, and you currently have a dominate force in that treaty. You cannot ENFORCE that treaty. Even if China do sign a non-aggression pact, when they knows they are bigger than all youse combine, she will just back away from it.

The only way you can do a treaty "ON EQUAL TERM" is to invite another large force than you will have a Unstoppable force WITH and immovable object. Currently, either you can sway India or the US into said Treaty, otherwise no point even to think of a treaty in the first place.

 

[USAHawk785]

Yes they had.
Trying to pursue a bad peace is still much better than to start a just war, IMHO.

I don't agree with that statement.

 

[USAHawk785]

Can Indonesia do anything against China?
Can you help Japan, Vietnam or Philippines if China intimidates or attacks one of them?
Can you put any pressure on them to sign anything that is not in their interests?
Empty words do not count.

Let take the proprosed COD Code of Conduct for the SC Sea, that is under discussion since 10 years. I can suggest you to urge the Chinese to sign it otherwise they will face sanctions from Indonesia.

LOL peace treaty! You are a dreamer. I never hear any critics to China from Indonesia. China is on the way to subjugate Asia, not only in economics. As for VN, we still have the option to change side and join a Sino alliance.

Be more realistic.

Indonesia does not have the military and geopolitical clout to be a regional leader nor does she possess the capability of countering the Chinese to even force the Chinese to recognize cooperation outside their hegemonistic tendency. The only real option to the Chinese is the Unite States, and our presence in the region is being felt.

Indonesia, honestly, is an insignificant player in Asia-Pacific geopolitics. She does not even have a capable blue water navy to ensure regional cooperation.

Outside the United States and Japan, I would say India would be another regional leader.

Indonesia? No. She is too insignificant.

If you want to have a treaty in Asia and you want to invite China to said Treaty. Given you know for sure that China is or going to be larger than all of the Rest of Asia combine. What would the rest of Asia get from said treaty then??

If you are to include a treaty of non-aggression as such, and you currently have a dominate force in that treaty. You cannot ENFORCE that treaty. Even if China do sign a non-aggression pact, when they knows they are bigger than all youse combine, she will just back away from it.

The only way you can do a treaty "ON EQUAL TERM" is to invite another large force than you will have a Unstoppable force WITH and immovable object. Currently, either you can sway India or the US into said Treaty, otherwise no point even to think of a treaty in the first place.

You are correct.

All that in the SCS,who protects ur trade routes?None.US controls them.

That is right. The 5th and 7th fleets, to be specific.

 

[USAHawk785]

True. The 7th Fleet is the undisputed leader of the Western Pacific nevertheless Long range ICBM (DF-21D) and CM/AshM can cause damage to supply deports in places as far as Guam, thereby denying the USN an route to the SCS's important choke points for an long period of time. This would allow the Chinese to forify their positions in the pacific and follow it's main defense doctrine of AA (Anti-Access)/Anti-Denial when the USN recovers. That's why the JMSDF is so important for the Americans.

Do you honestly believe that if they were to dare launch icbm strikes on our military positions that they would survive the coming fire? They would hide in the dirt waiting to be glassed and not even a cockroach would survive the divine light of thousands of nuclear strikes throughout what would have been the Chinese heartland.

The extermination of an entire race would be a result of that action. We have the supreme power to eradicate their entire country from the face of this earth.