Will IAF have an edge over PAF in advanced air weaponry?

[MastanKhan]

Hi Mean-bird,

We are talking about the confrontation with india in 2002---Gen Musharraf is on record stating it in one of his interviews that pakistan didnot have a credible delivery system at that time---the nukes would be buried underground and detonated when the invading armies crossed over----that is where that joke came in from.

2004 was a different time---there may have been other delivery systems available as well at that time---no doubt but that was the time when qatari mirages were offered.

To members and colleagues----I don't have a problem of you confronting me at any time about what I say---I don't make a fool of anyone niether do I desire to see anyone put down---I put my research and time and my thoughts over here---I can't be expected to hit the bulls eye everytime---but I believe that most of the time I am close by---to err is human.

I am not a yes minister for PAF and niether do I believe that they are the favourite children of GOD.

PC---on this defence forum---the issues that I am discussing here are related to the confrontation that can happen any time---today --tomorrow or the day after---we are in the present tense---we are not dealing with 2015 at this moment-----what are you going to tell the SUN WARRIOR riding the SU 30 charriot---come back in 2015---that is when we will fight with you.

One more episode like mumbai killings and we are in deep six.

Didn't you see the pakstani general flying to china right after the mumbai carnage to get some more stuff asap. Didn't the purchase of Fc 20 come right at that time as a total surprise to many---.

Since the 65 and 71 war the only time the PAF had anything going for them were the 80's. Since then they have been a lame duck full of excuses more of their making---one after the other----politcal analysis failure---strategy failure---procurement failure---investing in sanction prone environment failure---underestimating the indian airforce threat level after peace overtures with india failure----mirage 2k purchase in the 90's failure---. No PAF does not know better---they do have outstanding flyers--- no doubt about it---it is just that nobody has stood upto them and stated that they have screwed up many atimes---they just are no good deal makers. That is all I have have been trying to say in all through my posts.

When there are so many screw ups in the procurement---when the same issues of sanctions keep propping up even after 20 years---when after going through all the troubles we are still behind the 8 ball---then there are definite issues with the ideology, thinking, understanding of how to buy aircraft--of that organization.

REMEMBER: LUCK HAPPENS WHEN PREPARATION MEETS OPPURTUNITY

 

[mean_bird]

Hi Mean-bird,

We are talking about the confrontation with india in 2002---Gen Musharraf is on record stating it in one of his interviews that pakistan didnot have a credible delivery system at that time---the nukes would be buried underground and detonated when the invading armies crossed over----that is where that joke came in from.

2004 was a different time---there may have been other delivery systems available as well at that time---no doubt but that was the time when qatari mirages were offered.

I think you are missing the fact that Ghauri missile existed at that time. And if its based on some foreign missiles, then even those existed.

Pakistan successfully carried out the test of the surface-to-surface Ghauri-I Missile with a range of 1500 km and a payload of 700 kg on April 6, 1998.

 

[Manticore]

1]sir in the interview of cas he said.."we are not in a state of handle extremely high technology used in JAS-39 Grippen, as we don't have the bases of aerial technogy."
What does the point "dont have the basis of aerial technology" mean here? blain2 asked the same question aswell..

2]sir, what things were on the list during the general's visit to china recently?any speculations?


one comment.. if missiles are everything in pakistani doctrine and paf is repeatedly treated as second option, whats the use of an airforce then? has the term ''second to none'' faded in the past?

 

[MastanKhan]

I think you are missing the fact that Ghauri missile existed at that time. And if its based on some foreign missiles, then even those existed.

Mean-bird,

I am not missing any facts. I am only going by Gen Musharraf's interview he made to the tv. Other than that---I don't have a foot to stand on----the rest is all assumption---if we have ghauri with 700 kg payload or something else---we only assume that it can do the job.

Pakistan bluffed india in 2002---and india fell for it---for their sake---they believed that we had everything possible that would fly our nukes to every corner of india---we already won more than half the battle----after winning the battle---it was time for re-assessment and re-alignment.

 

[Patriot]

Mean-bird,

I am not missing any facts. I am only going by Gen Musharraf's interview he made to the tv. Other than that---I don't have a foot to stand on----the rest is all assumption---if we have ghauri with 700 kg payload or something else---we only assume that it can do the job.

Pakistan bluffed india in 2002---and india fell for it---for their sake---they believed that we had everything possible that would fly our nukes to every corner of india---we already won more than half the battle----after winning the battle---it was time for re-assessment and re-alignment.

Yes, that is correct.I have read his book and i think he even mentioned in his book that Pakistani Nukes were not mated with missiles until 2003.

 

[mean_bird]

1]sir in the interview of cas he said.."we are not in a state of handle extremely high technology used in JAS-39 Grippen, as we don't have the bases of aerial technogy."
What does the point "dont have the basis of aerial technology" mean here? blain2 asked the same question aswell..

2]sir, what things were on the list during the general's visit to china recently?any speculations?


one comment.. if missiles are everything in pakistani doctrine and paf is repeatedly treated as second option, whats the use of an airforce then? has the term ''second to none'' faded in the past?

1. JAS-39 Grippen was coming with ToT. And we do not have (or had) the industrial base to handle it. Meaning, even though the technology to build/assemble it would be given to us but we were not in a position to do it.


I have no idea about your 2nd question. Relating to your comment PAF is still an essential part of our Airforce. When I said missiles are our 'main deterrent' that means missiles are our main threat.

We cannot match PAF spending with that of IAF. In other words, we cannot rely on PAF as an absolute winning card in any war and especially creating that "threat" that would ward off any thoughts of misadventure by the enemy. Now, why PAF? because nobody wants a war to go to the extremes. Its not like the first violation or attempted "surgical" strike would see a missile with a nuke in response. Those are only for extreme threats or for wars that might last very long.

Any Indian misadventure as in violating our borders, surgical strikes, denying us our airspace, light to medium wars, etc would be met by all 3 army units - army, airforce and Navy. So our Airforce have to be strong enough to deal with that threat.

Before our non-conventional capability and delivery system, if you could somehow overpower our army you won the war. Today, however, both India or pakistan wouldn't take war to that extent where conventional forces wear out because then the threat of a non-conventional strike becomes highly probable and can cause havoc in the region. Just the threat of that have already prevented some misadventures.

 

[imtiyaz]

i think we are missing the point here.if we go back in history we see that machines do not necessarily win wars..its always the men..I think pakistani pilots r better trained n more talented than foolish indians.As such we can match them even with lessere sophisticaed weapons.The search should continue but we neednot panic as we r superior to them in them in physical aspects

 

[zombie:-)]

i think we are missing the point here.if we go back in history we see that machines do not necessarily win wars..its always the men..I think pakistani pilots r better trained n more talented than foolish indians.As such we can match them even with lessere sophisticaed weapons.The search should continue but we neednot panic as we r superior to them in them in physical aspects

may god bless you and your nation ofcourse

BUT i wont see pakistani pilots flappin their arms and droppin off 2000 lb bombs from their pockets ... they must have huge pockets

sorry for the misplaced humor but please be serious

sorry i forgot indians are foolish coz they still fly in planes coz they are inferior in physical aspects

 

[Super Falcon]

for some extent yes iaf has edge on paf
iaf got
Phalcon
SU30MKI
PAK-FA 5 generation Stealth
Mirage 2000
Mig 29
MRCA any one of them IAF can Buy,Rafale,F16Blk70,F18Hornet,Mig35

Paf got
F16Blk 52
J10
JF17
Mirage III
F7 PG

no match to iaf
but one ng iaf lacks best fighter pilots which matter the most in dog fights

 

[zombie:-)]

for some extent yes iaf has edge on paf
iaf got
Phalcon
SU30MKI
PAK-FA 5 generation Stealth
Mirage 2000
Mig 29
MRCA any one of them IAF can Buy,Rafale,F16Blk70,F18Hornet,Mig35

Paf got
F16Blk 52
J10
JF17
Mirage III
F7 PG

no match to iaf
but one ng iaf lacks best fighter pilots which matter the most in dog fights

SORRY BUT WE DONT HAVE THE PHALCONS NOR YOU THE BlK-52s
and MRCA is still good deal 4 years away...

 

[Musalman]

we are stronger taller and fitter..Don remember Zardari..he said Kasab doesn even look like a pakistani..
Also u guys r brownish while v r fairer..
Pakistanis will fly in parachutes n reach the cockpits of MKI..drag indian pilots out...punch their noses n kick them outta their planes n proceed to shoot other MKIs....

What is that racist bs, shame on you kid. Fairer !!!!!!!!!! Accept the fact that the only difference between us and Indian is that we are 98% Muslim and they are 20%. We belong to a same race and prior to 1947 we even had the same country.

I am proud to be a brownish / black what ever, with Indian / Punjabi heritage. I am still a proud Pakistani. Quit thinking of yourself as Iranic, Middle eastern, Arab, Turk and European, coz we are not. We are Pakistani and ethically we are of Indic stock (period) Accept that fact.

 

[Keysersoze]

He is a Indian troll guys ignore him

 

[Patriot]

He is a Indian troll guys ignore him

Haha Indians are so desperate man.They even registered as a Pakistani and made dumb posts lol

 

[macintosh]

for some extent yes iaf has edge on paf
iaf got
Phalcon
SU30MKI
PAK-FA 5 generation Stealth
Mirage 2000
Mig 29
MRCA any one of them IAF can Buy,Rafale,F16Blk70,F18Hornet,Mig35

Paf got
F16Blk 52
J10
JF17
Mirage III
F7 PG

no match to iaf
but one ng iaf lacks best fighter pilots which matter the most in dog fights

Besides IAF also have mig-27 and jaguars for ground attack and mig-21 bisons too are very good interceptors,but IAF also has to take into consideration PLAAF.Pak actually is not that worrisome in conventional war but it is the nukes that is keeping India from engaging in war.

 

[Musalman]

Thats a personal insult..I will complain to the administrators..Now u will face the fury of a patriotic pakistani.u hindu fool

Personal insult, i do not see any insult.

He is a Indian troll guys ignore him

Indian troll ? Am I ? Now this is a personal insult You are a moderator you can even check my IP.

Haha Indians are so desperate man.They even registered as a Pakistani and made dumb posts lol

I dunno about Indians, but if u think I am Indian then think again