"Will cut tongue of anyone who wants to change Blasphemy Laws" - JI

[M. Sarmad]

Terrorism in Zia's time when PPP's violent assets based themselves in Libya under Gaddafi and executed several attacks, including at least one hijacking.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Pakistan_International_Airlines_hijacking

Al-Zulfiqar was formed by Bhutto's sons to avenge Bhutto's killing by means of armed struggle against the military regime of General Zia.

It was "personal vendetta" behind those terrorism activities, not "liberalism" or ideological differences

 

[Verve]

But what I'm saying is --- now that he had done the more brave (and more stupid) thing, it doesn't justify murder.

As I've said before, wars have been fought over 'mere' words. Satan will influence one to abuse and the other to kill, where both are wrong and it is further polarising the society (it's quite obvious on the forum too where people have taken extreme stances)! Who is less or more wrong is irrelevant now and will not solve the problem on hand. It is getting people to develop restraint of tongue and hands is what matters. Blame games will not resolve anything. Restraint, as I've repeatedly said, is the key, and @Arsalan 's post says exactly that too.

 

[Max]

I don't care about law, there should be speedy justice, so people dont lynch people in Pakistan.

 

[Vazir]

I don't care about law, there should be speedy justice, so people dont lynch people in Pakistan.

Step 1 would be to stop the mob lynching. Honestly, I'd like to see a law introduced about that by now, and there should a a way to contact your MP so that the MP knows about the demands of his constituents (like in US, should I add). Why we don't have such a system is beyond me.

 

[M. Sarmad]

they work differently.they are long term poison that kills you slowly from inside.Both are two opposite sides of the same rotten coin

So, you believe that "holding/propagating unorthodox and dissenting views" (that you think may prove dangerous in the long run) is as wrong as "killing innocent people" ???

but I am yet to see a liberal stating that disrespecting Islam, Muslims and there prophet is wrong.

And rather ironically, I am yet to see a "liberal" (on PDF) stating that disrespecting prophet is NOT wrong !!

 

[Arsalan]

Step 1 would be to stop the mob lynching. Honestly, I'd like to see a law introduced about that by now, and there should a a way to contact your MP so that the MP knows about the demands of his constituents (like in US, should I add). Why we don't have such a system is beyond me.

To stop that you need to assure that mob that there is a law and a body that will enforce that law to deliver justice. You cannot expect the public to trust a corrupt system or total lack of it.

So, you believe that "holding/propagating unorthodox and dissenting views" (that you think may prove dangerous in the long run) is as wrong as "killing innocent people" ???



And rather ironically, I am yet to see a "liberal" (on PDF) stating that disrespecting prophet is NOT wrong !!

Well if that is the case it is GREAT. By this you mean that if it is wrong there should be a law and a punishment by that law against any such action, that is, against Blasphemy. Sure there should be as street killings are CRIME and cannot be defended at all.

As i said, if Mullah start calling mob justice wrong and the liberal start respecting the religious beliefs and values of the others, both doing what there ideology tells them to do, it will solve the problem.

 

[Musafir117]

He's a murderer as per law of the land. Heaven or Hell decision is Allah's.

He is in hell

 

[Arsalan]

He is in hell

So you are one of those leberal extemists or the Mullah extremists announcing who is in hell and who is in heaven?
THIS is the kind of attitude that is extreme and leads to different problems in our society. THEY ARE BOTH DEAD. Let Allah decide where to place them. We should be ashamed for judging who have already passed away. These are not our calls to make!!

Agreed. Even today many people are confused whether Taseer was a Qadyani or not. It takes a tiresome debate to tell them that he's not an Israeli agent, or an Ahmadi........

It is not like we are killing each and every Ahmadi here. The problem was with something he said or what was reported in media the wrong way. That was what actually mislead people and Qadri was one of them. He committed a crime and was rightly hanged for it but we cannot and must not ignore the other factors that led to this point.

 

[Lagay Raho]

So, you believe that "holding/propagating unorthodox and dissenting views" (that you think may prove dangerous in the long run) is as wrong as "killing innocent people" ???

idk how to speak my mind with my limited vocabulary.i meant encouraging immoral behavior/blurring the lines between halal and haram/right and wrong.slowly eating away the values of a traditional family unit etc

 

[Verve]

So you are one of those leberal extemists or the Mullah extremists announcing who is in hell and who is in heaven?

Same coin, other side ... as many inc @Lagay Raho have pointed out. The liberals are issuing their own fatwas as well

 

[M. Sarmad]

Well if that is the case it is GREAT. By this you mean that if it is wrong there should be a law and a punishment by that law against any such action, that is, against Blasphemy. Sure there should be as street killings are CRIME and cannot be defended at all.

As i said, if Mullah start calling mob justice wrong and the liberal start respecting the religious beliefs and values of the others, both doing what there ideology tells them to do, it will solve the problem.

Nothing wrong in criminalizing hate speech. Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws are criticized by Pakistani liberals and seculars because they are discriminatory, because they carry disproportionate punishments, because they are vaguely worded and are open to abuse and misuse, and most importantly because they are un-Islamic ....

 

[Vazir]

It is not like we are killing each and every Ahmadi here. The problem was with something he said or what was reported in media the wrong way. That was what actually mislead people and Qadri was one of them. He committed a crime and was rightly hanged for it but we cannot and must not ignore the other factors that led to this point.

I didn't say that we are. I'm saying that the propaganda declaring Taseer to be an Ahmadi was an amazingly disgusting attempt to defame him. I'm highlighting the extent of propaganda in this country. It also targeted Hamza Ali Abbasi when he talked about how the Second Amendment is wrong (don't really agree with him on this, but the propaganda revolving around this was nothing short of shameful).

 

[Arsalan]

Nothing wrong in criminalizing hate speech. Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws are criticized by Pakistani liberals and seculars because they are discriminatory, because they carry disproportionate punishments, because they are vaguely worded and are open to abuse and misuse, and most importantly because they are un-Islamic ....

Well them make proper laws and IMPLEMENT them. Islam can guide us in making those laws. Strong laws should be made, strict punishments handed to the abusers to make sure the public is satisfied and no one out there feels the need to take matters into there own hands. Again, we can seek guidance from the religion the state follows.
Furthermore, as far as hate speech is concerned, it must include:

1. Sectarian hate speech
2. Hate speech against OTHER religions as well (like Christianity, Hinduism etc)

I didn't say that we are. I'm saying that the propaganda declaring Taseer to be an Ahmadi was an amazingly disgusting attempt to defame him. I'm highlighting the extent of propaganda in this country. It also targeted Hamza Ali Abbasi when he talked about how the Second Amendment is wrong (don't really agree with him on this, but the propaganda revolving around this was nothing short of shameful).

True and that is why i am saying that those people are equally responsible for the deaths. Provocation for murder is a serious crime as well.

Same coin, other side ... as many inc @Lagay Raho have pointed out. The liberals are issuing their own fatwas as well

True!
SAD but true!!

 

[Verve]

And what is he as per the law of the Quran?

Let me rephrase that: would you prefer to see him in Heaven or Hell?

Or yet more simply: do you think Qadri is a saint/hero or a murderer?

I'm not the Qazi, and it is not my responsibility. Qazi declared him murderer, and I go with that.

I have no preferences whatsoever of anyone being in heaven or hell - I seek forgiveness for all.

Why don't you answer the questions you have posed yourself?

 

[Vazir]

I should add that "blasphemy" should be defined in detail. The current laws define the term very loosely, and loose definitions always cause legal problems. They tend to favour vocal arguments in court rather than concrete evidence.