Wikileaks : India accused of torture and HR violations in Kashmir

[pakdefender]

The official US silence on the atrocities in IaK does support the Pakistani position that rhetoric from the West, its absence and presence, is primarily focussed on furthering Western economic and strategic interests, and with respect to India, that amounts to an official silence on issues of Indian atrocities in IAK and Indian support for rebels in Pakistan, while at the same time coddling India by giving in to Indian demands of accusing Pakistan over a variety of issues.

But then again, we were already aware of that template given the US-Israeli relationship.

right on the dot

 

[pakdefender]

I know army officers that were posted near the LoC and they told me that indian cut of the breasts of kashmiri women and wrote 'pakistan zindabad' with the blood ... sick animals

 

[ares]

I know army officers that were posted near the LoC and they told me that indian cut of the breasts of kashmiri women and wrote 'pakistan zindabad' with the blood ... sick animals

Are you sure he was not telling you tales of his own adventures..I mean why would Indians write 'Pakistan zindabad'??

 

[Dance]

Not surprised at all, this was expected from the worlds "biggest democracy"

 

[pakdefender]

this was not the only such incident there have been many others but they just dont get reported in the MSM

here is another one , this happened near Bhimber and I know the unit officers that were posted there in 1998 so this is first hand infomation that this indeed happened.


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REUTERS Report:
Indian troops crossed a military control line in Kashmir region before dawn on Friday and massacred 15 people on the Pakistani side of the disputed territory, Pakistani officials have said.

But India quickly denied the charge and accused Pakistani troops of firing mortar bombs and small arms across the Line of Control (LOC).

"There has been no crossing of the LOC by us," Brigadier Randhir Sinh of the 16 Corp told Reuters in Jammu, the winter capital of India's Jammu and Kashmir state.

"Heavy firing has been going on since last night in Mendhar sector in which Pakistan troops have fired over 600 mortars and more than 30,000 small arms fire," Sinh said. Mendhar is 210 km (130 miles) north of Jammu.

Pakistani officials said the Indian troops crossed the line after midnight and attacked people asleep at Jandrood village in Kotli district, some 300 km (185 miles) south of the state capital Muzaffarabad. They said 11 people died instantly from either shooting or bayoneting.

The Indians amputated and took away the heads of two men and a woman, the officials added.

"In their latest act of stark terrorism, Indian troops infiltrated across the LOC...and brutally slaughtered...innocent civilians while they were asleep", a Pakistani statement said. "Pakistan condemns this cowardly and irresponsible act and urges the international community to take a strong notice," it added.

Tensions are running high between India and Pakistan after their hostilities in northern Kashmir last summer and ahead of a planned visit by U.S. President Bill Clinton to India and Bangladesh in March.

A Pakistan army spokesman said the injured told local officials that the attackers "were wearing Indian uniforms" when they arrived in the village in the Nakial sector under cover of heavy fire from the Indian side and killed the people.

At least 21 civilians were massacred in a village in the nearby Bhimber district in April 1998 in attack which Pakistan blamed on Indian troops.

Pakistani officials in the area of the alleged attack said villages near the LOC -- where Pakistani and Indian troops frequently exchange fire -- are usually deserted but added a few families had returned for a religious occasion.

The officials said the village was almost right on the 740-km (460-mile) LOC that divides the disputed Himalayan region between Pakistan and India.

The line was established in 1972 after the countries fought their last war.

The incident is the latest development in an already tense stand-off between Pakistan and Indian troops in Kashmir.

The nuclear-capable rivals have fought two of their three wars since gaining independence from Britain in 1947 on Kashmir and came close to a fourth last July.

Kashmir is also expected to be on the agenda of Clinton's visit to India next month. No stop in Pakistan has been announced but the White House has left open the possibility that he might visit Islamabad.



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[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Why u need to depend on wikileaks to confirm it when instead of leaks wold media is flooded with pictures and news stories and Video evidences for all of it.Just go to youtube and type kashmir u will get 1000 of result of the same.

so atlast you indians have confessed & admitted that barbarism is being done on innocent kashmiris ... i wonder why the common indians dont come out and raise some kind of voice for kashmiris ( as according to indian govt. kashmiris are also indians just like others indians since india calls it as a part of india) let alone any peacefull protest against the worste ever human - rights violations being done with full strength by your so-called professional indian army .... ?? ... jack that professionalism ...

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

loll.. funny reading some stuff... common people still wake up.. no one will give any public speech condemning India or any such thing.. because US doesnt do that with people it wants closer relation with.. remember '71.. US didn't say anything against Pakistan when PA was killing Bengalis.. because US doesnt do that with countries who are their allies or countries who they want to make allies with.. maybe if it was still 1980s or 1990s than US would talk lottttssss against India.. but that time is over.. now US wants to be close with India.. now they will not say anything... and also I pointed out earlier too.. human rights violations carried out by everyone everywhere.. no different.. Gitmo wasn't different.. infact Gitmo wasn't even so bigg.. just because you some pictures of it you think its huuggee deal.. the CIA prisons over th world in countries like Egypt and Syria are farrrr more notorious and worse than Gitmo..... now im not justifying the torture and all.. im saying it happens.. pakistanis and indians.. its common knowledge to both you people.. stop pretending its nottt... you can go to ure local police station and commonly see torture happening.. and yes to innocent people all the time...

 

[pakdefender]

This is the condition of Indian army troops, following was filmed in occupied-Assam where ULFA (United Liberation Front of Assam) is fighting against Indian occupation

This disgraceful soldier went to a ladies underwear shop and asked the sales person to show him ladies underwear, the sales person showed he and then he touched her and then he is getting a beating which the local press people filmed

YouTube - Girl Beats Up Indian Soldier For Molesting Her

The behaviour of Indian army in occupied Kashmir is no different, in fact its worse.

 

[EjazR]

Guys, if i may add here that it would be insane to compare SWAT with IoK. The Kashmir conflict has been going on since 1947 while the SWAT refugees are already back in their homes - resettled and relieved.

I am glad that some of my Indian friends showed the courage to call a spade a spade, but at the same time please do not give yourself fake comfort by saying that everyone else does it too, so we are not alone.

The first step in the problem solving process is to ADMIT that there is something wrong,only then you are able to AMEND it.

A rising power should also raise its morality to keep rising.

The conflict in Kashmir started in 1989, that is the reality. Before that there was no Army presence there. This is despite the fact that there were two wars, 65 and 71.

Torture can't be condoned, but in conflict situation it happens. This doesn't mean it should allowed to continue. And like the cable suggests, the HR situation has improves over time.


@AM
You mentioned that the US was quite on HR violations in Kashmir on India. Is that really a surprise. US has always maintained a very fine line in truly championing HR and using HR as a tool to further their political interests.

So for example when in 71, East Pakistanis were suferring from HR abuse, the US did not put any pressure on Yahya Khan at all even in private diplomatic conversations. Again in 1994, the US was ready along with other countries to vote for a resolution condemning India for HR violation in Kashmir that would even result in sanctions. Iran ofcourse scuttled that at the last minute by not allowing the matter to be tables at the Security Council. Post 2001 the situation is different. So just as the US keeps quite on HR violations in Kashmir, it refrains from publicly talking about HR violations in Swat or FATA.
While it continues to highlight HR abuse in Myanmar, Iran or China because it serves it politcal interests.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Not surprised at all, this was expected from the worlds "biggest democracy"

The world's biggest democracy ,despite being more diverse than Europe ,has remained intact and its minorities have grown.


@EjazR
Do these HR violations has any connection with indiscipline in the IA?

 

[EjazR]

this was not the only such incident there have been many others but they just dont get reported in the MSM

here is another one , this happened near Bhimber and I know the unit officers that were posted there in 1998 so this is first hand infomation that this indeed happened.


===========
REUTERS Report:

Its best to give direct link to the reuters report. Otherwise the chance is that its one of those propaganda reports by Daily Mail or attempt to make swat execution videos somehow done by the Indian army.

I could not find this report anywhere except other forums and they too did not have links.

 

[EjazR]

@Bombensturm


The cable is from 2005 and the fact that GoI was willing to let ICRC in Kashmir to find out the true situation of HR violations means that GoI does not condone torture. Even this year, Omar's govt. allowed Amnesty International to visit Kashmir as well. ICRC was engaged in sensitising officers and police on Human Rights. And this year India will be the first south/west/central Asian country to pass an anti-torture bill.

The problem is when HR gets politicised and different groups use it for their own agendas. Then instead of resolving HR issues, Human rights organisations are barred and people suffer. The GoI and GoJ&K because of being the state power have more responsibility in preventing HR violations.

As the wikileaks cables show, militant groups based in Pakistan have been involved in horrific violence. They have been involved in recruiting children so as to brainwash them and commit suicide attacks. Something we see is now happening in Pakistan itself. But these groups have no responsibility of HR and a comparison should not be drawn to them.

The Army, GoI and GoJ&K hold that HR violations and torture is not condoned, then they should be held accountable and work towards that. The anti-torture bill is one aspect. Army griveance in each district is another.
The main culprits tend to be the local police. So there should be more public interaction by them. And there has been attempts like the one below.

Jammu and Kashmir Police launch police-public interaction on radio
Jammu and Kashmir Police has launched a radio programme of pro-active police-public interaction to listen to the grievances of the people.

Inspector General of Police (Crime and Railways) S.M. Sahai said this programme has been mooted to reach out to the mindset of people and listen to the problems that they are facing.

Residents have also welcomed the initiative taken by the police.

"This is a good programme and I feel that this will help improve relations between the public and the police. Considering certain prevailing conditions in Kashmir, this programme is a good initiative," said Farooq Ahmad, a resident of Srinagar.

"This will help people to keep their opinion before the police. But the police will also have to carry out their duties and responsibilities in a clean way," he added.

A notable aspect of this programme is that people will talk to S.M. Sahai directly during the programme. By Afzal Bhat

 

[Hulk]

This is the condition of Indian army troops, following was filmed in occupied-Assam where ULFA (United Liberation Front of Assam) is fighting against Indian occupation

This disgraceful soldier went to a ladies underwear shop and asked the sales person to show him ladies underwear, the sales person showed he and then he touched her and then he is getting a beating which the local press people filmed

YouTube - Girl Beats Up Indian Soldier For Molesting Her

The behaviour of Indian army in occupied Kashmir is no different, in fact its worse.

You need to be able to find the message from video.
The soldier abused the girl, proves bad boys are everywhere.
The soldier did not replied, to the girl, proves he will lose the job if he if caught. This just shows how Army and government takes these issue.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

These double standards(of the west) you are complaining about now..are you forgetting you are the biggest beneficiaries of them ..even before recent SWAT killings ..west never criticized you for your excesses or have we forgotten East Pakistan genocide and the famous blood telegram which followed.

Fact is west has no moral authority on human right with the kind of stuff thats been going on in their off shore prisons...they do what they think is best for them as we should all.

@AM
You mentioned that the US was quite on HR violations in Kashmir on India. Is that really a surprise. US has always maintained a very fine line in truly championing HR and using HR as a tool to further their political interests.

So for example when in 71, East Pakistanis were suferring from HR abuse, the US did not put any pressure on Yahya Khan at all even in private diplomatic conversations. Again in 1994, the US was ready along with other countries to vote for a resolution condemning India for HR violation in Kashmir that would even result in sanctions. Iran ofcourse scuttled that at the last minute by not allowing the matter to be tables at the Security Council. Post 2001 the situation is different. So just as the US keeps quite on HR violations in Kashmir, it refrains from publicly talking about HR violations in Swat or FATA.
While it continues to highlight HR abuse in Myanmar, Iran or China because it serves it politcal interests.

The argument that the US/West looked the other way in the case of Pakistan, during the East Pakistan crises or at any other time, is not completely accurate.

Pakistan was in fact under US sanctions from 1965 through 1975, despite ostensibly being a 'cold war ally'. The Western media did not fail to highlight the alleged atrocities by Pakistani forces in East Pakistan, and Pakistan came in for criticism from the US Congress and the West in general over HR abuses in EP. It was in fact a unilateral decision by Nixon to try and covertly support Pakistan, and given the rather short timeline of events from March 1971 to December 1971, and the lack of any independent and thorough analysis of events during the conflict, Nixon can't be blamed for not raising the issue.

Even in SWAT, the US administration, Congress and Western media in general highlighted the issue of extrajudicial killings several times, within weeks of the reports being made public. There was talk of ending military relations with Pakistan because of that alleged abuse, within weeks, to put pressure on Pakistan, again, despite Pakistan ostensibly being an 'indispensable ally in the WoT'.

Compare this to the situation with India, where a thorough investigation by the ICRC (and various other groups over the years) clearly establishes systematic atrocities by Indian security forces, conveyed it to the US, and the US just sat on it and said not a word. Even now that the information is public, there is largely silence in the West and from the US Congress and Administration. That is in stark contrast to how the West has dealt with Pakistan, whether Pakistan was an ally or not.

I am also not aware of any US plan to vote on any UNSC resolutions that would have sanctioned India for its HR abuses, and AFAIK, Iran allegedly blocked a vote on a resolution tabled in the OIC, not the UN.

 

[Mabs]

The conflict in Kashmir started in 1989, that is the reality. Before that there was no Army presence there. This is despite the fact that there were two wars, 65 and 71.

Torture can't be condoned, but in conflict situation it happens. This doesn't mean it should allowed to continue. And like the cable suggests, the HR situation has improves over time.


Here is our fundamental disagreement, and in my opinion a grave mistake by the Indians. You guys believe or seem to want to believe that Kashmir crisis began exclusively after 1989, which to put it very mildly is parochial. Kashmir became an issue, the moment the Kashmiris were deprived of their fundamental right to self determination. No nation has the right to impose itself on anyone else without their will, and that’s precisely why the plebiscite was suggested to give the people of Kashmir a conscious chance to carve their own future.

We (i.e. Pakistan and India) should understand this phenomenon more than anyone else, as we struggled for 90 years (1857-1947) to gain our freedom from the British. Alas, we did not learn anything from it, and turned Kashmir into a colony of our own. We achieved our independence but the colonial mindset still prevails.

About your second point my friend, yes when there is war, there is collateral damage and mind you, I am giving leeway when I term the Kashmir struggle as a war because it is NOT. Albeit, we take it as a war for the sake of discussion, does that justify the INTENTIONAL torture being inflicted upon the masses? Collateral damage is unintended damage that occurs during a conflict. Taking people to designated underground chambers and subjecting them to inhumane treatment is plain atrocious and amounts to gross violations of Human rights.