Why would Greek civilization be considered Western and Iranian civilization

[Superboy]

is not? What is the explanation?

 

[AUz]

Why would Iranian civilization be considered 'Western'?

Also, 'Western' is a pretty lame term. If anything, Rome and Greece were Mediterranean civilizations that derived their intellectual and cultural legacy from Middle-Eastern civilizations (Egyptians, Babylonians, Phoenicians etc) and later gave this culture to the savage barbarians of what you call the "west"...

Europe was nothing more than bunch of wild tribes moving throughout the continent...

 

[AUz]

Why would Iranian civilization be considered 'Western'?

Also, 'Western' is a pretty lame term. If anything, Rome and Greece were Mediterranean civilizations that derived their intellectual and cultural legacy from Middle-Eastern civilizations (Egyptians, Babylonians, Phoenicians etc) and later gave this culture to the savage barbarians of what you call the "west"...

Europe was nothing more than bunch of wild tribes moving throughout the continent...

 

[Kambojaric]

If I have understood you correctly you are asking why Greek civilization is considered "western" whereas Persian civilization isnt? I think the main reason for this is that Greek civilization gave the world demos kratos (peoples rule), i.e. democracy, which is a central feature of most West European countries today. Aristotle, Socrates, Plato were all widely studied in the western world from the renaissance era onwards. There is a deliberate attempt by western countries at this point and time to associate themselves with Greek civilization due to the prestige factor (in other words to claim to being the cultural descendents of an old mighty civilization).

Persian civilization is not however considered "western" because its focus was always more on authoritarianism, which was something Western Europe was slowly slowly moving away from in the era of 15-1600s onwards (constituional monarchies, revolutions etc).

Of course this division by West European countries of Greek civilization as European and Persian civilization as "asian/eastern" is quite superficial as the Greeks and Persians would have had far more in common with each than a Greek would have had with an Alemman from Germany or a Pict from Scotland. However mainly this difference in democracy viz a viz authoritarianism is the main factor why Greek civilization is seen as European whilst Persian civilization is seen as asian or eastern.

 

[Arya Desa]

Why would Iranian civilization be considered 'Western'?

Also, 'Western' is a pretty lame term. If anything, Rome and Greece were Mediterranean civilizations that derived their intellectual and cultural legacy from Middle-Eastern civilizations (Egyptians, Babylonians, Phoenicians etc) and later gave this culture to the savage barbarians of what you call the "west"...

Europe was nothing more than bunch of wild tribes moving throughout the continent...

Technically Egyptian history is considered the start of Western civilization. That's what I was taught in school here.

 

[Superboy]

I think the main reason for this is that Greek civilization gave the world demos kratos (peoples rule), i.e. democracy, which is a central feature of most West European countries today.

Europe has had important absolute monarchies till very recent times. The Bourbon dynasty ruled France till the 1800s. The German monarchy ruled Germany till towards the end of WW1. Greece was ruled by kings mostly all the time.

 

[Meengla]

@Bamxa has some good points.
I'd give a brief and very amateur personal observation: I think it is more than democracy. Greece is part of the Christendom while Iran is not. There is probably more racial overlap between the Greeks and other Europeans than between Iranians and other Europeans. Above all: The European ("Western") countries have adapted much more of the Ancient Greek culture than Iranians have.
PS. Long time ago I read a good book: 'The Triumph of the West'; Pretty interesting. Here it is at Amazon. May help understand the topic better: The Triumph of the West: J. M. Roberts: 9780316749893: Amazon.com: Books

 

[A1Kaid]

Perhaps because Greece is European and Persian is Middle eastern, it's simply derived from their geographical origins.

 

[scorpionx]

Most historians consider ancient Greece to be the cultural foundations of the Modern west. After falling under Roman dominance,the Greek style of architecture sprayed all over Europe. The Doric,Ionic and Corinthian columns, arches,Theaters,monuments,aqueducts were absorbed grotesquely by Europe which clearly reached in it's zenith during the Renaissance.

 

[AUz]

Technically Egyptian history is considered the start of Western civilization. That's what I was taught in school here.

Well, Egyptian Civilization influenced Greeks.

Its funny to think that all this talk of 'white superiority', whereas everything "white" itself came from East

 

[Surenas]

Iranian civilization was neither Western nor Eastern. It had its own unique features, ranging all the way from its unique way of bureaucratic government (satraps, etc) to its own unique religion (Zoroastrianism), which stands on the basis of the three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). The Persians did influence the Greeks though; Plato was strongly influenced by this revolutionary philosopher (prophet), Zoroaster. Colotes (another Greek philosopher) accused Plato even of stealing the ideas of Zoroaster. Nietzsche even called the Persians the inventors of the moral world:

In his seminal work Also sprach Zarathustra the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche uses the native Iranian name Zarathustra (i.e. the Persian Zarathustra, as opposed to the Greek-Latin name Zoroaster) which has a significant meaning as he had used the familiar Greek-Latin name in his earlier works. In particular that Nietzsche states explicitly "I must pay tribute to Zarathustra, a Persian: Persians were the first who thought of history in its full entirety." It is believed that Nietzsche creates a characterization of Zarathustra as the mouthpiece for Nietzsche's own ideas against morality. Nietzsche did so because—so says Nietzsche in his autobiographical Ecce Homo (IV/Schicksal.3)—Zarathustra was a moralist ("was the exact reverse of an immoralist" like Nietzsche) and because "in his teachings alone is truthfulness upheld as the highest virtue." Zarathustra "created" morality in being the first to reveal it, "first to see in the struggle between good and evil the essential wheel in the working of things.''

In terms of tolerance towards other religions and its subjects, the Persians did came closer to the modern day Western world than the Greeks though.

 

[Arya Desa]

Well, Egyptian Civilization influenced Greeks.

Its funny to think that all this talk of 'white superiority', whereas everything "white" itself came from East

Whites claim everything. They call themselves Aryan, they claim Roman and Greece history (people who they didn't consider white until 1950s), they deny everyone else's history. The fact they are so powerful is a historical aberration, but they say " every dog has it's day". One of them here said he had more right to claim classical Indian history than I did and Buddha was blue eyed and had blonde hair.

 

[Wright]

Well, Egyptian Civilization influenced Greeks.

Its funny to think that all this talk of 'white superiority', whereas everything "white" itself came from East

Egypt is in Africa, not Asia. East lol.
Ancient Egypt is claimed by black Africans.

 

[Wright]

Whites claim everything. They call themselves Aryan, they claim Roman and Greece history (people who they didn't consider white until 1950s), they deny everyone else's history. The fact they are so powerful is a historical aberration, but they say " every dog has it's day". One of them here said he had more right to claim classical Indian history than I did and Buddha was blue eyed and had blonde hair.

Ancient science was far less complex than modern science. Very basic. Apart from nazi's I cant really see how claiming some indian history would make Russian, French, Germans, etc feel better. The bulk of what we use today in our daily lives from computers, to internet, to cars, airplanes, cell phones, had their origins in either the America's or Europe and really should be a source of achievement for that specific nation, not others because they look similar.

Industrialization btw, was the real game changer which gave Europe an edge - and it did not occur in Greece. Both the Italians and Greeks have been pretty dormant in recent centuries compared to their neighbors.

Also racialists claim things on behalf of a "race". not everyone thinks this way. If anything its Russians, Americans, Germans arguing who did what in terms or rocketry, etc.

Plus Its Arabs and Indians who often get into fights regarding zero among other things.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

Depends on who you ask , many whites in north America accept Persians as white (westerner)