Why We’d Miss Musharraf

[F.O.X]

Is this the same mushy who's mother and father hold US passports that we think is going to somehow save pakistan.
He is nothing but a third rate general that was promoted above his seniors by nawaaz under the hope as a non punjabi/pushtoon he would not have the same backing as other generals.
The guy ranks as one of the worst leaders of pakistan since its creation.
Nawaaz/BB would have followed the US after 9/11,mushy did nothing groundbreaking here.
The economy has improved,just as it would have under nawaaaz/BB if they had followed the US line.
The guy is pathetic..

perhapes you would like ot eleborate your comments


Now I DARE you to challenge Musharraf Government's achievements below...

I completely agree that Musharraf is by far the most intelligent, progressive and honest leader we have ever had.

Under him Pakistan has progressed. When he took over Pakistan was on the verge of bankruptcy. Now we have Foreign reserves above US$13 billion. The rupee has been stable to 59-60 per US$ since he took over. The GDP growth of Pakistan is 7.4%.

It took 20 years (1980 - 1999) to add US$3.5 billion exports. Under Musharraf it took only 5 years (2000-2004) to add US$4.5 billion.

The rate of growth in Pakistan Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) is at a 30-year high. Construction activity is at a 17-year high.

There is 26.2 percent growth in Industrial sector of Pakistan.

Country's Software Exports for the first time crossed US$72 million in the financial year 2005-06. [..and this year the exports will be US$600 million, a figure which is predicted to reach US$4.3 BILLION in 2010]

Musharraf will set up 9 world class Science and Technology Engineering Federal Universities by 2008 with Foreign assistance.

In 1999 what we earned as GDP: we used to give away 64.1 % as foreign debt and liabilities. Now in Musharraf's tenure 2006, what we earn as GDP: we give ONLY 24.3 % as foreign debt and liabilities. Now we are SAVING 35 % of our GDP for economic growth.

According to Economic Survey 2005. Poverty in Pakistan in 2001 was 34.46%. And, now after 7 years of Musharraf; Poverty in 2007 was22.8%. Poverty DECREASED by 11.66%. Overall, 14 million people have been pushed out of Poverty in 2001 -2005!

Literacy rate in Pakistan has increased from 32% (in 1999) to 56% (in 2007).

Per capita income has been increased from 250$(1999) to 925$(2007)

Why shouldn't we support Musharraf?

This military man has succeeded in giving Pakistan what democracy couldn't give in 50 years. [shame on the 'democracy' losers!]

What alternative do we have of Musharraf? Corrupt politicians who have only looted the country under disguise of democracy?

Let me see..

Benazir Bhutto? CORRUPT.

Nawaz Sharif? CORRUPT.

Altaf Hussain? LOL you got to be kidding me. Not with him at the helm of MQM.

Mullahs? OVER MY DEAD BODY.

Regards
Wilco

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Perhaps you are left speechless. I would appreciate if you articulate your comment!

Right, a playboy who achieved success and fame from precisely the kind of behavior and system that he is now condemning. He is just another regressive fool who has defined "morality" in his later years to be an "ultra conservative" society. He was another one opposed to the "Woman's Rights Bill".

 

[ghazi]

Jinnah created Pakistan for Muslims of South Asia. However the irony is the only living blood relation of Jinnah is not even a Muslim but Zorastrian & not even a citizen of Pakistan but of archrival India. This goes to show the division of a nation along religious line was superficial & wrong, when the founder himself could not keep his house in order.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Jinnah created Pakistan for Muslims of South Asia. However the irony is the only living blood relation of Jinnah is not even a Muslim but Zorastrian & not even a citizen of Pakistan but of archrival India. This goes to show the division of a nation along religious line was superficial & wrong, when the founder himself could not keep his house in order.

You have failed to understand the reasons for independence then. The creation of Pakistan was not so that we could have a Muslim "Khilafat", it was to ensure freedom and autonomy for a people who would have been a minority, and perhaps subjected to discrimination and subjugation as part of a United India.

Where the irony truly lies is that your comments, about the non-Muslim faith of Jinnah's relatives, only show a lack of tolerance, respect and acceptance - principles the creation of Pakistan was to offer its residents, but whose import seems to have been lost upon so many of them.

 

[dabong1]

perhapes you would like ot eleborate your comments


Now I DARE you to challenge Musharraf Government's achievements below...

I completely agree that Musharraf is by far the most intelligent, progressive and honest leader we have ever had.

What even more Jinnah?

Under him Pakistan has progressed. When he took over Pakistan was on the verge of bankruptcy..

Did it have something to do with sanctions that where placed on pakistan due to the nuclear testing carried out by nawaaz?
Or maybe it was an accumulation of sanctions over the past decade on the civilian government due to them not moving on core issues like the taliban,nuclear weapons,kashmir ect under military/domestic pressure.

Now we have Foreign reserves above US$13 billion. The rupee has been stable to 59-60 per US$ since he took over. The GDP growth of Pakistan is 7.4%.

It took 20 years (1980 - 1999) to add US$3.5 billion exports. Under Musharraf it took only 5 years (2000-2004) to add US$4.5 billion.

The rate of growth in Pakistan Large Scale Manufacturing (LSM) is at a 30-year high. Construction activity is at a 17-year high.

There is 26.2 percent growth in Industrial sector of Pakistan.

Country's Software Exports for the first time crossed US$72 million in the financial year 2005-06. [..and this year the exports will be US$600 million, a figure which is predicted to reach US$4.3 BILLION in 2010]

Musharraf will set up 9 world class Science and Technology Engineering Federal Universities by 2008 with Foreign assistance.

In 1999 what we earned as GDP: we used to give away 64.1 % as foreign debt and liabilities. Now in Musharraf's tenure 2006, what we earn as GDP: we give ONLY 24.3 % as foreign debt and liabilities. Now we are SAVING 35 % of our GDP for economic growth.

According to Economic Survey 2005. Poverty in Pakistan in 2001 was 34.46%. And, now after 7 years of Musharraf; Poverty in 2007 was22.8%. Poverty DECREASED by 11.66%. Overall, 14 million people have been pushed out of Poverty in 2001 -2005!

Literacy rate in Pakistan has increased from 32% (in 1999) to 56% (in 2007).

Per capita income has been increased from 250$(1999) to 925$(2007)..

Yes thats what happens when the US lift sanctions and start giving you access to funds from the WB IMF ect.
Would have the same thing under a civilian govt,just that we would have got a better deal and would not have been in the mess where in now with suicide bombings.

Why shouldn't we support Musharraf?

Mmmm... i wonder if Musharraf would have supported a civilian govt if it had followed the "war on terror" the same way he has blindly leading us into mayhem.

This military man has succeeded in giving Pakistan what democracy couldn't give in 50 years. [shame on the 'democracy' losers!]

In the last 60 years the military has taken power on numerous occasions,overthrowing elected govts and installing generals in the place of elected prime ministers.
The military has had a hold on power a lot longer then the elected govt,so they are responsible for the mess where in.

alternative do we have of Musharraf? Corrupt politicians who have only looted the country under disguise of democracy?

Let me see..

Benazir Bhutto? CORRUPT.

So its proven in court has it that she is corrupt?

Nawaz Sharif? CORRUPT..

Is that from the same court that convicted benazir

Altaf Hussain? LOL you got to be kidding me. Not with him at the helm of MQM...

So its only the MQM that is guilty of killing people and no other political party in pakistan carries out killings?

Mullahs? OVER MY DEAD BODY...

Oooh..... this is where your "saviour for pakistan" Musharraf is guilty on all counts,was it not him and the army that made sure the MMA won the elections giving then control of two provinces in pakistan.
Was it not the military that has always backed the mullah party's,gradually making the right wing in pakistan more powerful over the previous decades.

Regards
Wilco

Walaikumsalam bro

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dabong:

Your constant refrain is that the suicide bombings are the result of the Army going into Waziristan. There can be two reasons why the presence of the Army in FATA has caused this spike:

1- the terrorist were already motivated to do this stuff, so if it had not happened now, it would have happened later

2 - the terrorists were not motivated and it was "Army atrocities" (that you allege) that caused them to start this reign of terror.

So far your allegations of "atrocities" have been baseless and unsubstantiated, so unless you can provide evidence to prove atrocities, the fact remains that these people were motivated and ready to kill and would have committed these acts sooner or later. So the policy to confront them was correct and is correct.

For all of you who are blaming government policy, think rationally about the situation and your poistion on it for a second. What can cause people to be driven to the point of blowing themselves and others up? Did the Pakistan Army commit atrocities (ala Israeli atrocities against Palestinians) against the innocent people of FATA? That is the ONLY possible justification that can be given for their actions. If so PROVE to yourselves and others that is the case.

 

[F.O.X]

What even more Jinnah?

?? sorry dident understand what u said.

Did it have something to do with sanctions that where placed on pakistan due to the nuclear testing carried out by nawaaz?

Give me a break nawz did not carried th nuclear Blast on his own, it was due to the preasure of Army & Public of Pakistan & if any body have to be given cradit they are Pakistani Scintist who made it possible not NS.

Yes thats what happens when the US lift sanctions and start giving you access to funds from the WB IMF ect.

There were also no sanctions before the Neculear Blasts what NS & BB did , just making that Pakistan has only been progressed bcoz Us left Sanctions is pointless, Accept the reality that due to Gov policies have made every thing happen,

& What have Health, Education, IT, & what civil Gov have done in past is in front of the eyes of all peope it is not hidden & if you close you r eyes i cant do anything.

Mmmm... i wonder if Musharraf would have supported a civilian govt if it had followed the "war on terror" the same way he has blindly leading us into mayhem.

If Musharaf have not supported the Civil got then these Assemblies would not have been operated more then 2 year but guess what they have completed there Five years.

In the last 60 years the military has taken power on numerous occasions,overthrowing elected govts and installing generals in the place of elected prime ministers.
The military has had a hold on power a lot longer then the elected govt,so they are responsible for the mess where in.

from 1988 to 1999 there was no military involvement in politics what happen then Assemblies broken 4 time by your favorite leaders BB & NS thats Y there was No economic development. & the only rule which was stable was Army rule from 1962 to 1968 from 1977 to 1988 from 1999 to 2007 & the best development this country has ever seen are in the rule of Army.
if you like to tell me the Major Achievements of NS i wont mind.

So its proven in court has it that she is corrupt?

it has also not been proven that LM terrorists were not right, does it mean they were right? no you don't have to have the license to be a terrorist or vice versa.

Walaikumsalam bro

Take care bro.

Regards
Wilco

 

[JK!]

Ok Musharraf has done good for the economy but his social and political agenda has been a disaster.
Look at the state of Pakistan right now, the rich get richer and the poor don't. When NGOs try to improve the situation they are restricted and accused of humiliating Pakistan by highlighting abuses.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Look at the state of Pakistan right now, the rich get richer and the poor don't.

That is the normal phenomenon of any country that is breaking it shackles of poverty with imaginatively aggressive economic policies.

It is happening in India as well!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok Musharraf has done good for the economy but his social and political agenda has been a disaster.
Look at the state of Pakistan right now, the rich get richer and the poor don't. When NGOs try to improve the situation they are restricted and accused of humiliating Pakistan by highlighting abuses.

I'll have to concur with Salim sahib on this. The socialist model for economic growth has arguably been discredited (though I still believe that there should remain room for nationalized health care, education and welfare, along with private sector participation).

Businesses and businessmen will only invest more money, expand operations and therefore hire more people when they themselves get "richer". You cannot expect a company that is barely breaking even to go on a hiring spree. Look at the massive investment and development undertaken by the business conglomerates in India the Tata's the Ambani's etc. - Are they not reinvesting a large part of that wealth back into the country?

So it is in our interest to have the "rich getting richer". The more relevant argument is one related to how the government is prioritizing its spending. Is it spending to improve education, to improve basic infrastructure, to improve access to health care? If it is spending, then is that money being utilized properly? Are the top bracket earners being netted by the FBR?

By harping on the "rich getting richer", you are digressing from the real issues that need to be addressed. This is a natural phenomenon of a free market economy. These "rich people" and "rich corporations" are the ones who can sustain Pakistan's growth and create jobs. They just need to be regulated properly to ensure that their actions are consistent with the vision we have for Pakistan.

 

[roadrunner]

Well, the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting richer according to the figures. So where's the problem? Even the middle classes are getting richer, more people are paying taxes.

 

[JK!]

And what about abuses in Pakistan.

Hasn't Musharraf past a bill to restrict NGOs from their work on account of the rape cases etc.

Sure make Balochistan get rid of its Sardari tribal system but what about the feudalism in Punjab where women are raped as tribal justice.

My comments on the poor are what is happening to benefit the common man.

 

[dabong1]

Dabong:

Your constant refrain is that the suicide bombings are the result of the Army going into Waziristan. There can be two reasons why the presence of the Army in FATA has caused this spike:

1- the terrorist were already motivated to do this stuff, so if it had not happened now, it would have happened later

2 - the terrorists were not motivated and it was "Army atrocities" (that you allege) that caused them to start this reign of terror.

So far your allegations of "atrocities" have been baseless and unsubstantiated, so unless you can provide evidence to prove atrocities, the fact remains that these people were motivated and ready to kill and would have committed these acts sooner or later. So the policy to confront them was correct and is correct.

For all of you who are blaming government policy, think rationally about the situation and your poistion on it for a second. What can cause people to be driven to the point of blowing themselves and others up? Did the Pakistan Army commit atrocities (ala Israeli atrocities against Palestinians) against the innocent people of FATA? That is the ONLY possible justification that can be given for their actions. If so PROVE to yourselves and others that is the case.

How many attacks where taking place on the pak army before bush ordered them into FATA?
Its a really simple question....try answering it

 

[dabong1]

Give me a break nawz did not carried th nuclear Blast on his own, it was due to the preasure of Army & Public of Pakistan & if any body have to be given cradit they are Pakistani Scintist who made it possible not NS.

But let me guess if mushy had been in power in would have been the "great leader" that did everything by himself...

There were also no sanctions before the Neculear Blasts what NS & BB did , just making that Pakistan has only been progressed bcoz Us left Sanctions is pointless, Accept the reality that due to Gov policies have made every thing happen
& What have Health, Education, IT, & what civil Gov have done in past is in front of the eyes of all peope it is not hidden & if you close you r eyes i cant do anything.,

October 1990, economic and military sanctions were imposed on Pakistan under the Pressler Amendment, a country-specific law that singles out only one nation on the nuclear issue.

If Musharaf have not supported the Civil got then these Assemblies would not have been operated more then 2 year but guess what they have completed there Five years..,

so did Zia and the other dictators in pakistans history.

from 1988 to 1999 there was no military involvement in politics what happen then Assemblies broken 4 time by your favorite leaders BB & NS thats Y there was No economic development. & the only rule which was stable was Army rule from 1962 to 1968 from 1977 to 1988 from 1999 to 2007 & the best development this country has ever seen are in the rule of Army.
if you like to tell me the Major Achievements of NS i wont mind.

The motorway...and if he had sold out totally like mushy he would have got access to credit that could have been used to improve the economy.
Mushy has nothing new,just carried on with BB,nawaaz economic policies.

it has also not been proven that LM terrorists were not right, does it mean they were right? no you don't have to have the license to be a terrorist or vice versa.

The govt could have straved them out like any other normal govt would have done.There was no need to make this people into "martyrs".

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And what about abuses in Pakistan.

Hasn't Musharraf past a bill to restrict NGOs from their work on account of the rape cases etc.

Sure make Balochistan get rid of its Sardari tribal system but what about the feudalism in Punjab where women are raped as tribal justice.

My comments on the poor are what is happening to benefit the common man.

I am not sure whether there was an actual bill passed, though I do faintly remember some talk of restrictions on NGO's. If you can find a link to it I'd appreciate it.

I personally thought that Musharraf's comments on the whole "allege rape to get attention" were distasteful. Even if he did not use those exact words, the implication was still there. I understand what he is referring to though, people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali for example make my blood boil. The West showers accolade upon them, despite being shown to be liars and hypocrites, because they "bash Islam". And perhaps this was the phenomenon Musharraf was both trying to prevent and criticize.

I do think that NGO efforts within Pakistan should not be restricted at all, but they should definitely be held accountable. And I think there is something to be said about "foreign tours and appearances" being a frivolous expense. That money could go a long way in Pakistan, and it is in Pakistan that we need more "awareness and education" - so how about trips to villages and remote towns etc. Of course when foreign trips are for the purpose of fund rasing etc. then by all means please go.

You are correct that the problem exists in Punjab and Sindh - and we need stronger efforts to eradicate it in those areas, but I do not believe that the Feudal structure was choking those provinces as much as the Sardari system was in Baluchistan. I would definitely support "operations" against feudals who maintain private prisons and run virtual fiefdoms. Seize their assets and distribute them amongst the peasants who have toiled for so little and for so long on those lands.

You see, these are the issues that need to be tackled - we focus too much on sound bites and blame games about "the rich getting richer" or "bowing to American interests", "Punjabi domination" etc. Its all a drama to shift blame because the real issues are in our back yard, and require hard work, sweat and tears to fix.