Why was Turkey the first Islamic country to recognize the state of Israel?

[KediKesenFare3]

Well my dreams are based on the long history of Turkey except for the last 70-80 years, it was a powerful Islamic country so I guess perhaps your time to wake up is drawing near. People of Turkey have seen what perils secularism brought on them and now they are voting for religious parties and that makes sense. Now Turkey is regaining its old glory.

You are confusing secularism and Kemalism. The Kemalist ideology might be secular but that's just one aspect of this mindset. Kemalism is an authoritarian and anti-liberal concept of society. It isn't by any means democratic. It forces people to change their lifestyle even though they're not doing any harm to others; it destroys individualism; it takes your choices. And it doesn't separate religion and state, in fact, it puts religion under the supervision of the government, thus, effectively intervening in peoples civil and private lifes in Turkey. Turks suffered from Kemalism not from secularism.

As a liberal secularist, I am not supporting certain political statements made by Turkish users regarding Israel. I'm not anti Israel but this doesn't mean we should support them. Just stay away from this mess.

Furthermore, I must admit that your observations of Turkish politics are wrong. You're looking at the right developments but making wrong conclusions.

Never forget this if you debating Turkey:

The Turkish people were ruled by Sharia law for 600 years. They were the center of Islam.

However, from 1923 to 2002 though, Turkey was one of the most secular countries of this planet.

Images from Kemalist Turkey:

Beer drinking competition

Republican woman

Wine tastings

People's school - run to the schools! Liberate yourselves from the darkness! Every disaster comes from Cahiliyat!

Ankara beer advertisement

Yalova thermal spring

Can you imagine how incredible radical this change was? In just a couple of months, literally over night, the Turkish people were forced to change basically every little part of their believe system, lifestyle, traditions, social conventions etc. simply everything.

What we are seeing in Turkey today is no Islamization. Historically, Turkey is discovering its social and political balance. Neither Erdoğan has the power to change Turkey's secular reality nor is he following the Kemalist understanding.

He did not forbid alcohol, prostitution or interest but rather restricted all of them. Drink your beer but don't do it in close proximity to mosques/churches/synagogues or schools. Marriage is an Islamic value but you have to go to the marriage office first to register your marriage. You can still get interest based state bonds but the state must offer you an Islamic alternative. etc.

Some people from both camps can't cope with this much of freedom. The Ottoman Empire is history so is Kemalist Turkey. We should learn to choose a healthy, liberal way to life together in one society. To each his own.

In Islam the sovereignty belongs to Allah.
In republic it belongs to the people and that's what we are facing right now.

According to Erdoğan, sovereignty belongs first and foremost to the people of the nation.

“Some [people] in this country did not recognize the will of the people. Some [people] in this country did not recognize the will of Parliament. Some [people] did not recognize [Turkey’s founder] Gazi Mustafa Kemal [Atatürk], who said that ‘Sovereignty unconditionally belongs to the people. ... They said ‘sovereignty belongs to us’ and got the tanks rolling,” Erdoğan said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty_unconditionally_belongs_to_the_Nation

 

[xenon54 out]

Explain flottila what happened ? your own military has jew generals that go to israel and bow to the wall.
sorry bro you infiltrated a long time ago. Then they made amovie valley of the wolves to psychologically trick the turks mind that Turkish army is really doing something like revenge when it was movie great for programming their minds.

Again the same bs from the conservatives, you guys cant just stop lying can you?

While in reality he was on a Israel visit, yes he visited the wall, but was also in Al-Aqsa praying, notice that he has the same clothes.

Well I am just saying what I have heard.

I understand you like and respect the Ataturk because he saved the country (Turkey) during WW1.

However I did hear the Ataturk was anti-religion. You can even read britannica on him.
Even they do not know his true religious beliefs, because of the actions he took.

By the way what is your opinion on laiklik or Kemalism? Its anti-religion like French secularism.

What's your opinion of changing the Arabic script to Latin script in Turkey.
Indeed that is thought to be a controversial move.

I know the ataturk is considered a hero in Turkey because of WW1.

But I do not agree with laiklik or Kemalism as a governing philosophy.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Kemal-Ataturk

Why does it bother you how Turks want their nations doctrine?
Is Arabic Script something holy? Why is it controversial? After switching to latin Alphabet the literacy rate skyrocketed, this my friend is adapting to changes and looking forward, people who refuse this for their emotions are the controversial ones.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Again the same bs from the conservatives, you guys cant just stop lying can you?

While in reality he was on a Israel visit, yes he visited the wall, but was also in Al-Aqsa praying, notice that he has the same clothes.

Why does it bother you how Turks want their nations doctrine?
Is Arabic Script something holy? Why is it controversial? After switching to latin Alphabet the literacy rate skyrocketed, this my friend is adapting to changes and looking forward, people who refuse this for their emotions are the controversial ones.

Actually it does not bother me how Turkey governs itself, because it their country.
Nor do I care about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, because Arabs do not care about Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and the republic of India.

I care about my country Pakistan.

Well I want to keep the Arabic script in Pakistan, because I feel proud of my culture.

When the Japanese became a westernized country their country, even they did not change their script to a Latin one.

Like I said it is the people of Turkey's choice. It doesn't bother me.

 

[xenon54 out]

Well I want to keep the Arabic script in Pakistan, because I feel proud of my culture.

You might be different because the sole reason for Pakistans existence is religion i.e. Islam but for us Arabic was just another scrip taken from foreigners, Turks abandoned their own script and adopted Arabic which had to be modified (its had also Persian letters and one Ottoman) to fit into Turkish grammar, changing to latin was just another adaptation.
Booth scripts have nothing to do with culture since one lives his culture which has nothing to do with a script.

 

[MultaniGuy]

You might be different because the sole reason for Pakistans existence is religion i.e. Islam but for us Arabic was just another scrip taken from foreigners, Turks abandoned their own script and adopted Arabic which had to be modified (its had also Persian letters and one Ottoman) to fit into Turkish grammar, changing to latin was just another adaptation.
Booth scripts have nothing to do with culture since one lives his culture which has nothing to do with a script.

Well if the Turkish people are happy with a latin script, it is their choice. Simple as that.
I am nobody to tell anything to anybody. It is Turkey's internal affairs.

 

[xenon54 out]

Well if the Turkish people are happy with a latin script, it is their choice. Simple as that.
I am nobody to tell anything to anybody. It is Turkey's internal affairs.

Exactly, there is no controvery about the script, in fact i have seen a lot people disturbed by increased number of Arabic scripts for tourists and refugees in Turkey during this years holidays.

 

[MultaniGuy]

You might be different because the sole reason for Pakistans existence is religion i.e. Islam but for us Arabic was just another scrip taken from foreigners, Turks abandoned their own script and adopted Arabic which had to be modified (its had also Persian letters and one Ottoman) to fit into Turkish grammar, changing to latin was just another adaptation.
Booth scripts have nothing to do with culture since one lives his culture which has nothing to do with a script.

If you are happy with Ataturk's reforms, then that is your choice and your people's choice. I am nobody to tell anything to anyone.

However for my country (Pakistan) I want the Arabic/Persian script to stay.

Our Urdu language works quite well with the Arabic/Persian Nastaliq script.

 

[HAIDER]

You might be different because the sole reason for Pakistans existence is religion i.e. Islam but for us Arabic was just another scrip taken from foreigners, Turks abandoned their own script and adopted Arabic which had to be modified (its had also Persian letters and one Ottoman) to fit into Turkish grammar, changing to latin was just another adaptation.
Booth scripts have nothing to do with culture since one lives his culture which has nothing to do with a script.

Sole existence of Pakistan is freedom of religion and speech. Later religious party gave the slogan. That's the reason I recommend listen the speech of Quaid e azam, attending the first session of parliament after independence . His speech loud and clear and endorse the freedom of religion for every citizen of state.

 

[war&peace]

You are confusing secularism and Kemalism. The Kemalist ideology might be secular but that's just one aspect of this mindset. Kemalism is an authoritarian and anti-liberal concept of society. It isn't by any means democratic. It forces people to change their lifestyle even though they're not doing any harm to others; it destroys individualism; it takes your choices. And it doesn't separate religion and state, in fact, it puts religion under the supervision of the government, thus, effectively intervening in peoples civil and private lifes in Turkey. Turks suffered from Kemalism not from secularism.

As a liberal secularist, I am not supporting certain political statements made by Turkish users regarding Israel. I'm not anti Israel but this doesn't mean we should support them. Just stay away from this mess.

Furthermore, I must admit that your observations of Turkish politics are wrong. You're looking at the right developments but making wrong conclusions.

Never forget this if you debating Turkey:

The Turkish people were ruled by Sharia law for 600 years. They were the center of Islam.

However, from 1923 to 2002 though, Turkey was one of the most secular countries of this planet.

Images from Kemalist Turkey:


Beer drinking competition

Republican woman
Wine tastings
People's school - run to the schools! Liberate yourselves from the darkness! Every disaster comes from Cahiliyat!
Ankara beer advertisement


Yalova thermal spring



Can you imagine how incredible radical this change was? In just a couple of months, literally over night, the Turkish people were forced to change basically every little part of their believe system, lifestyle, traditions, social conventions etc. simply everything.

What we are seeing in Turkey today is no Islamization. Historically, Turkey is discovering its social and political balance. Neither Erdoğan has the power to change Turkey's secular reality nor is he following the Kemalist understanding.

He did not forbid alcohol, prostitution or interest but rather restricted all of them. Drink your beer but don't do it in close proximity to mosques/churches/synagogues or schools. Marriage is an Islamic value but you have to go to the marriage office first to register your marriage. You can still get interest based state bonds but the state must offer you an Islamic alternative. etc.

Some people from both camps can't cope with this much of freedom. The Ottoman Empire is history so is Kemalist Turkey. We should learn to choose a healthy, liberal way to life together in one society. To each his own.


According to Erdoğan, sovereignty belongs first and foremost to the people of the nation.

“Some [people] in this country did not recognize the will of the people. Some [people] in this country did not recognize the will of Parliament. Some [people] did not recognize [Turkey’s founder] Gazi Mustafa Kemal [Atatürk], who said that ‘Sovereignty unconditionally belongs to the people. ... They said ‘sovereignty belongs to us’ and got the tanks rolling,” Erdoğan said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty_unconditionally_belongs_to_the_Nation

Good points. Kemalism is quite oppressive under the guise of secularism while it is not and that's why Turkish people are voting against it. Even a true Islamic state ensures a lot of personal freedom and privacy. It only deals with public behaviour of the people that can disturb the society in a major way. Islam is the perfect religion and it provides a perfect system and anyone who has doubts about it is not a believer...There is no such thing as a partial Muslim or believer as far as the beliefs are concerned regardless of how practicing a person is.

Erdogan is a politician and not a religious authority.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Believe in whatever you want, this is history, not cherry picked conspiracy theories that people like you prefer to believe.

Dont forget to check under your bed before you go to sleep, there might be a Jew hiding there.

Lol why are you wasting your time with that dude? I thought you already knew that according to him Jews Anglo- American Zionist imperialists are responsible for every single issue that happens on earth.
Just have a look at his posts history on here. No matter the subject matter be it Rohingyas issue, war in Syria, Boko haram in Nigeria, Stalin's Communist regime in Soviet Union, Mao's Communist China, Atatürk ("an American/Zionist agent") in Turkey, and every other issue in the middle East, Africa, Latin America, and Asia. Jews/British/U.S imperialists are behind everything that happens in the world.

Well I am just saying what I have heard.

I understand you like and respect the Ataturk because he saved the country (Turkey) during WW1.

However I did hear the Ataturk was anti-religion. You can even read britannica on him.
Even they do not know his true religious beliefs, because of the actions he took.

By the way what is your opinion on laiklik or Kemalism? Its anti-religion like French secularism.

What's your opinion of changing the Arabic script to Latin script in Turkey.
Indeed that is thought to be a controversial move.

I know the ataturk is considered a hero in Turkey because of WW1.

But I do not agree with laiklik or Kemalism as a governing philosophy.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Kemal-Ataturk

Hmmm.....it seems that Atatürk guy is indeed very controversial. I suppose if he was alive today and ruling Turkey, then he wouldn't have an easy ride and might even be isolated regionally, since many people in the region and the country itself would have considered him as being against Islam, in this regard the country would have been in political turmoil/internal instability due to this.

Was there any pressure on the Turkish government of the time by the Americans and British to endorse Israel or did they do it by choice?

Why are some people here so uneasy about this?
Turkey is a sovereign country as far as I know. As such they can adopt the policies they want , as far as it's suits their national interests and well being of their people. That should be every sane government number 1 priority. So I don't see the issue with Turkey or any other country for that matter recognising Israel or having diplomatic ties/trade/cooperation with them. As far as it served Turkeys national interests. Moreover, as far as I know, Turkey is not an Islamic state/country like say Pakistan, Iran etc. So it's not a religious/ideology ruled country.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

You are a multiple user that has been permanently banned.

Arabs rarely play victims as we usually had the upper hand throughout history.

Never for trolling but for replying in the same manner to trolls like you thus getting banned in the process as well. I will no longer commit this mistake and I ask you to take your medicine and change your Arabic username to something more fitting for your type. I won't say more than that. Now go cry somewhere else because you can't cope with the historical truths that I mentioned in post 106.

Lmfao upper hand your people cry about Israel and America everyday lol

I've never been banned and this is my first account you dirty lying Arab troll. But you have been banned multiple times for trolling because you are an Arab troll.

Stay on topic, what you do best is trolling and lying.

 

[Azadkashmir]

is this not enuff to wake you up. British empire, usa empire then it will be israel empire.
world war 1, 2 and 3 on the way.

only leader that was following the right formula was gaddafi, gold dinar for oil.

 

[Cherokee]

There are a few people I offer to buy beer for . @T-123456 @xenon54 @EgyptianAmerican If you are ever in Brisbane I will buy you guys a beer or two .

 

[xenon54 out]

There are a few people I offer to buy beer for . @T-123456 @xenon54 @EgyptianAmerican If you are ever in Brisbane I will buy you guys a beer or two .

I usually dont drink Alcohol but thanks.

 

[Cherokee]

I usually dont drink Alcohol but thanks.

Milkshake then. Cheers.