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Why should India have the only claim to the Kohinoor? Pakistan has a right to it too

We should leave the Kohinoor as such. Kohinoor should always serve as a reminder to the Indians on how we were conquered and not to repeat the mistakes again
 
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That's the argument being made, that Pakistan should claim it.

You're looking at the issue from the usual 'India vs Pakistan' perspective. This issue, while couched in the usual 'India vs Pakistan' headlines, is at it's core more of an internal Pakistani debate. It's a debate over reclaiming Pakistan's 'non-Muslim heritage', and it's part of the broader struggle within Pakistan against religious extremism and intolerance.

Giving the debate an 'India vs Pakistan' dimension and casting it in some ways as 'Pakistan struggling to retain her history that is being usurped by India' is nonetheless helpful as a tool to push back against religious conservatives/extremists in Pakistan.
Why should Pakistan however claim its non-Islamic past? Pakistan is avowedly Islamic and should continue on its path of claiming only the Muslim history.
I for one support Pakistanis in their fight for Shariah. It makes zero sense for a country to be born in the name of upholding and preserving Islam and then not legislating Shariah. Dichotomy.
 
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Gaon basa nahin, bhikhari pehle aa gye :fie:
Bandits Have come Run Run
bandits_kopf_schrift.jpg
Jing.full.621154.jpg
 
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What took them so long & why wait for India to initiate things like the 123 agreement too.
The internal Pakistani discourse over recognizing the importance of Pakistan's non-Islamic history and Pakistan's ongoing pursuit of an NSG exemption are two distinct issues with separate dynamics and drivers.

Your question on the 123 Agreement has been delved into in detail on other threads.
This is interesting considering that most Pakistanis here are unwilling to accept anything un islamic.

Not sure how will it be able to push back extremism & intolerance.
I'm not sure I agree with the first statement above - there are plenty of threads on this forum (with a lot of Pakistani support) that talk about Pakistan's ancient roots in the Mehargarh and Indus Civilization. Nationally, I don't have any empirical evidence to argue one way or the other, in terms of support or lack of on such issues.

Recognizing Pakistan's non-Islamic roots and paying tribute to the advanced civilizations (for their time) that our ancestors were part of, recognizing the achievements of rulers like Ranjit Singh etc. is important from the perspective of diluting the 'Muslim superiority complex' that some/many Pakistanis subscribe to. A major problem in the Islamic world in general is that religion (Islam) and the practice of that religion (being a 'true' Muslim) is incorrectly associated with the potential of 'national and civilizational advancement'. The fact that Pakistan's non-Islamic history is not given the attention it deserves, with the focus on Muslim rulers alone, strengthens the perception that Islam and being Muslim are necessary, and implicit in that belief is the attitude that 'non-Muslims are inferior', which in turn is can be exploited into violent extremism, justified by religious ideologues who want to use it as a tool to gain power.

By same logic Bangladesh too can have claim over Kashmir. Why only Pakistan.
The 'same logic' does not apply to the two scenarios - one references an artifact and how the origins of the artifact tie into a ruler and his empire centered in modern day Pakistan whereas the other has 'the same logic' in the mind of a fool.

On the subject of Bangladesh claiming J&K - Bangladesh is welcome to approach to approach the United Nations and request new UNSC Resolutions adding her as a claimant to the disputed territory of J&K, with the UNSC mandated referendum choices updated to include Bangladesh as an option.

Until Bangladesh does that, they have no claim over Kashmir.

Why should Pakistan however claim its non-Islamic past? Pakistan is avowedly Islamic and should continue on its path of claiming only the Muslim history.
I for one support Pakistanis in their fight for Shariah. It makes zero sense for a country to be born in the name of upholding and preserving Islam and then not legislating Shariah. Dichotomy.
Just because the modern Pakistani State is an 'Islamic Republic' doesn't change the fact that her ancient history is 'non-Islamic'. One doesn't have to revert to medieval practices to celebrate and recognize medieval history.

Pakistan's Islamic identity is her current identity, much like that of Egypt, Iran or Greece. Modern day Egypt and Iran are Islamic States, yet they celebrate their ancient non-Islamic culture (to varying degrees - someone with more knowledge can enlighten us further). The Greeks celebrate their ancient polytheistic Greek culture and history, while being a predominantly orthodox Christian nation (vs a Christian State). There is no reason why Pakistan should not do the same or cannot do the same.
 
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Why not as before Brits it was with Maharaja Ranjit singh who ruled parts of present day pakistan and india however before his death he willed (wasiyat) that the Kohinoor should be returned to the Hindu temple of Puri.
 
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Just because the modern Pakistani State is an 'Islamic Republic' doesn't change the fact that her ancient history is 'non-Islamic'. One doesn't have to revert to medieval practices to celebrate and recognize medieval history.

Pakistan's Islamic identity is her current identity, much like that of Egypt, Iran or Greece. Modern day Egypt and Iran are Islamic States, yet they celebrate their ancient non-Islamic culture (to varying degrees - someone with more knowledge can enlighten us further). The Greeks celebrate their ancient polytheistic Greek culture and history, while being a predominantly orthodox Christian nation (vs a Christian State). There is no reason why Pakistan should not do the same or cannot do the same.
It can ofcourse. However that it has not and has consciously avoided teaching non-Islamic history of the land Pakistan to the students for generations is indicative that it does not want to.

There are countless examples of Pakistani scholars highlighting that text books highlight Pakistan's history from the arrival of bin Qasim. or Jumps staright from IVC to Qasim.

So over close to 7 decades now Pakistan's leaders(elected and dictators) have chosen to keep this. Therefore, it is a societal decision of Pakistan to ignore its non-Islamic history. And there are reasons why Pakistani society chose this course of action.

I am merely a supporter of the reasons why they chose this policy.
 
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Counting chickens before they"ve hatched.

Wonder in my life time if we will get it back
 
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It can ofcourse. However that it has not and has consciously avoided teaching non-Islamic history of the land Pakistan to the students for generations is indicative that it does not want to.
A national discourse on changing that is precisely what I have been referring to in my posts. A very publicly visible campaign to stake a claim to the Kohinoor would assist in furthering this national discourse.
Therefore, it is a societal decision of Pakistan to ignore its non-Islamic history. And there are reasons why Pakistani society chose this course of action.
Societies change and evolve (regressively, progressively or a combination of both) - nothing is static. The reasons, used to sideline and ignore Pakistan's non-Islamic history and heritage, are no longer valid, in fact were never valid. This national discourse is needed to bring about greater public understanding about the invalidity of those reasons and to build awareness of Pakistan's history spanning thousands of years.
 
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That's the argument being made, that Pakistan should claim it.

You're looking at the issue from the usual 'India vs Pakistan' perspective. This issue, while couched in the usual 'India vs Pakistan' headlines, is at it's core more of an internal Pakistani debate. It's a debate over reclaiming Pakistan's 'non-Muslim heritage', and it's part of the broader struggle within Pakistan against religious extremism and intolerance.

Giving the debate an 'India vs Pakistan' dimension and casting it in some ways as 'Pakistan struggling to retain her history that is being usurped by India' is nonetheless helpful as a tool to push back against religious conservatives/extremists in Pakistan.

Once you accept your history then you will realize that we were one people and these borders are irrelevant. LOL:lol:
 
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Once you accept your history then you will realize that we were one people and these borders are irrelevant. LOL:lol:
Yes, we were all 'one people' who migrated and spread out across the world from some place in Africa (per the human migration theory).

I see no reason to pick some arbitrary point in history, that Indians prefer, as the starting point for 'one people'.
 
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