Why Pakistan had to Support Toppling of Taliban in 2001

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan. As a nation off 230 million we need to have a firm stance against the Americans,And use our rights to deny or allow their requests we need to stop being pussys,And say what we actually feel like.One incident that hits close to home is that of Raymond Davis,That son of a bitch was allowed to murder my fellow countrymen,And we did nothing about it yet the Americans still had the audacity to demand his innocence,Even worse we let his accomplice's leave the country,Swear to God this incident pains my scars, Of thee old days, Whenever I recall that....Nobody had the balls to say shut the motherfuckin airports no damn American prick is leaving this damn land until we find these sons off bitches.But then my senses are knocked back in place and I see why such injustice was done to my people,A saying in Punjabi goes by "Ghar da Mariya Pani ni mangda Bhar da Mariya pani nu labda" Those who are hurt by someone dear to them are left off in worse state than those who are not. Sorry for my enrage,But am overjoyed with the news off Americans leaving Afghanistan finally these pricks cannot steal any innocents future from them

Does it bother you that OBL was hiding in Pakistan ?

 

[araz]

Musharraf was an egotist and a weak man. He might have been a hero on the battlefield, but in politics he was pathetic, time and time again. The NRO he signed was even more pathetic then the way he dropped his pants for Bush.

Post 911 Pakistan was threatened, we had little choice, but showing a bit of steel would have got us a better deal. We got paid a pittance, we didn't get any trade deals out of it, we got blamed for all their failures, we let them spread their war into our country, we let them appoint a government which hated us, we gave up key assets to them for nothing.

The country was disgraced. PMIK is making political mileage out of it, so what, he's not telling any lies.

I think the decision making calculus is different when you are on your own as against part of a team. As I have said we do not know enough to venture an opinion but my own impression remains that we were sold short. Under what circumstances remains to be seen and we will possibly never know what actually went on.
A

 

[PakAlp]

Let's be clear. There are videos of Musharraf and Colin Powell after 9/11 in news conferences where Pakistan tried hard to bring in the 'good Taliban' in the govt. Pakistan had even GW Bush public ask the Northern Alliance to 'not cross the Shomaili Plains' and take over Kabul. So Pakistan had tried hard to safeguard its interests but with no major backers--not even China--willing to back Pakistan then, it was about cutting the losses. Give up the Talibans or be destroyed like Iraq (2003). Fools think that Pakistan's nukes would have made any difference! As Kasuri says: Pakistan had no options then!

But, again, PM Imran Khan is twisting the political narrative in Pakistan and keeps crowing about him being called 'The Taliban Khan'. Imran Khan dismisses the presence of 'some terrorists' in FATA as nothing to oppose the military action in FATA. Well, those 'some terrorists' had found a perfect launch pad for an insurgency which killed tens of thousands of Pakistanis. The 'dialog' which Imran Khan said he was asking with TTP was ALWAYS on the offer by all Pakistani govts: Lay down arms, live peacefully and no harm. So Imran Khan was not something unique. Opportunism or naivete!??

I remember this clearly. JUI, JI, PML N, PTI were against military operations in FATA, whilst had no answer for the terrorist attacks taking place in Pakistan. They betrayed Pakistan when their help was needed the most, I guess they thought Pakistan would become like Iraq so were playing their cards, some even declared Pakistan army as not martyrs and considered the terrorist as martyrs, this was on live TV.

When the first military operation took place, PTI, JUI, JI PML N were the most opposing parties, The military took action even though the sitting government and allies were against it, only when the army was fighting then PML N announced the support to save face. PPP, MQM, PAT, JUP, PML Q were for the operations.

Some big scholars of Pakistan issued fatwas against terrorists and were killed through suicide attacks, whats shameful is those same scholars are sidelined but the terrorist supporting molvis are given big positions, like Tahir Ashrafi. Its all dirty politics.

Those who are criticising Mushraff should know that Pakistan was alot weaker back then, and so were our allies Turkey and China. In Pakistan it was Mushraff with the army backing and all major political parties were against him, including the Islamic parties, they did propaganda against him for a decade, he was cornered and this may led him to make decisions which he shouldn't have. The teorrists from Afghanistan moved to FATA which was like a no go area for even Pakistan army, the JUI, JI were spreading so much hate against Pakistan army to even move to FATA, never mind the military operations. After thousands of death and when the military thought the people are behind them, this is when they launched the operation. The enemy plan was to start a civil war in Pakistan and we alhamdulillah avoided it.

Imran Khan is playing politics, he was against military operations in FATA but what was his plan to stop the terrorists, they were getting stronger everyday and nearly every day bombs were going off in Pakistan. What was his solution? To hug the militants? Pakistan government/military told them to lay down their arms but they wouldn't as they were told by their operators to cause a civil war. If Pakistan army attacks them then the army would be looked as anti Islam army and if they stayed quiet then innocent would die and militants would get even more strong. It was a very complex situation.

The USA/Nato toppled the Taliban, not Pakistan government. Pakistan didn't send the army to fight, yes bases were given and which is condemnable.

 

[Meengla]

I remember this clearly. JUI, JI, PML N, PTI were against military operations in FATA, whilst had no answer for the terrorist attacks taking place in Pakistan. They betrayed Pakistan when their help was needed the most, I guess they thought Pakistan would become like Iraq so were playing their cards, some even declared Pakistan army as not martyrs and considered the terrorist as martyrs, this was on live TV.

When the first military operation took place, PTI, JUI, JI PML N were the most opposing parties, The military took action even though the sitting government and allies were against it, only when the army was fighting then PML N announced the support to save face. PPP, MQM, PAT, JUP, PML Q were for the operations.

Some big scholars of Pakistan issued fatwas against terrorists and were killed through suicide attacks, whats shameful is those same scholars are sidelined but the terrorist supporting molvis are given big positions, like Tahir Ashrafi. Its all dirty politics.

Those who are criticising Mushraff should know that Pakistan was alot weaker back then, and so were our allies Turkey and China. In Pakistan it was Mushraff with the army backing and all major political parties were against him, including the Islamic parties, they did propaganda against him for a decade, he was cornered and this may led him to make decisions which he shouldn't have. The teorrists from Afghanistan moved to FATA which was like a no go area for even Pakistan army, the JUI, JI were spreading so much hate against Pakistan army to even move to FATA, never mind the military operations. After thousands of death and when the military thought the people are behind them, this is when they launched the operation. The enemy plan was to start a civil war in Pakistan and we alhamdulillah avoided it.

Imran Khan is playing politics, he was against military operations in FATA but what was his plan to stop the terrorists, they were getting stronger everyday and nearly every day bombs were going off in Pakistan. What was his solution? To hug the militants? Pakistan government/military told them to lay down their arms but they wouldn't as they were told by their operators to cause a civil war. If Pakistan army attacks them then the army would be looked as anti Islam army and if they stayed quiet then innocent would die and militants would get even more strong. It was a very complex situation.

The USA/Nato toppled the Taliban, not Pakistan government. Pakistan didn't send the army to fight, yes bases were given and which is condemnable.

Top post. Sums up well, especially the opportunism of the political parties in Pakistan!!
But my particular anger is toward Imran Khan! He did dilly squat for peace in Pakistan! Who can forget that during the 2013 election campaigns the PPP/ANP leaders were attacked by the terrorists, greatly reducing their campaigns while Imran Khan was having a walk in the park! It enrages me when Imran Khan claims credit for the peace in Pakistan and for claiming it was HIM who had convinced the Americans to have a 'dialog' with the Talibans. Well--Americans had a the 'dialog' option always with the Talibans: Laydown the arms, join the central govt. Of course Americans had to backpaddle from that to cut their own losses and leave Afghanistan. But that had NOTHING to do with Imran Khan!!! Why would the Talibans lose something on the table which they won by incurring huge losses on the battle fields??
Coming back to the topic a bit more. Once again, Pakistan had no choice except to get as much out of the Americans as possible and get what could be provided so long as long term Pakistani strategic goals were secured--and they were. I know tons of thousands died but do you guys not know that the vast majority of those deaths were by the terrorists especially from the FATA who had found a perfect sanctuary?? The action which was taken in 2014 and later, if taken in 2002, would have ensured a lot less number of casualties.
Also, let's look at the scenario if Pakistan had not helped: As you rightly said, Pakistan was a lot weaker and Pakistan's allies were also a lot weaker then. There is a report which says that after 9/11, Musharraf asked someone from PAF how long the PAF could hold off the US military and I think the answer was that 'after 3 hours, there won't be any PAF left'. In short, Pakistan would have been destroyed given the prevailing American rage and the help being offered to America by ALL the countries of the world. And some people here bring North Korea and Iran. Firstly, they are not the model for stability and peace/prosperity. But what probably saves them from front attacks by Americans is that they can destroyed South Korea and Israel respectively from artillery/missiles while going down. Pakistan was not in such position AND Pakistan has a powerful opportunist enemy to its east ready to pounce on any given chance.
And about the financial compensation--that topic was discussed in the Pakistani press in late 2001 and one should read Jang's Irshad Ahmad Haqqani. His assessment was that Pakistan could not get the '$100 billion loan right off like Egypt' got but there were other concessions given. We will never know how much could have been given or negotiated but I suspect there was no time for anything then---it was a different world all of a sudden.

 

[Blacklight]

Pakistan had lot of options. Also I want to tell you one thing. Over whelming amount of Generals in the Army pretty much all core commanders opposed Musharraf move. They have discipline that is why they followed it. And yes great move that move got us killed 70000 Pakistanis and we are still in a war against TTP and also Baluchistan on fire. So wow great move. How many Pakistanis lives would it take for you and others like you to stop defending that disaster known as Musharraf.

@Meengla

Ironically the General who took over Karachi Airport, to insure Musharraf's safe landing was most vocal, Gen Usmani. May Allah grant him the highest place in Jannat.

 

[Blacklight]

Musharaf was a maha ch+++, all his retarted actions are why Pakistan is in such a big mess. Couldn't negotiate well with the Americans, created many fronts in Pakistan against it's own people, gave NRO, the infamous "Aman ka Tamsha" attitude that emboldened India, SAFMA, SAATH all these Indian funded 5th gen forums, started in his tenure. And one has the audacity to say mush had no choices? He had choices by the tons, and he choose the most retarded out of all those choices. No other general f+++ this country as much as he did. If Raheel Sharif was in his shoes, I can bet the results would have been much different and positve.

Agree on all, except above in red. How did Nawaz and Co. loot and plunder with impunity under his watch?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Its for politics. Pakistan had no option back then.

 

[ali_raza]

Agree on all, except above in red. How did Nawaz and Co. loot and plunder with impunity under his watch?

the guys who messed up our whole standing in gulf for ever

 

[PakFactor]

Ironically the General who took over Karachi Airport, to insure Musharraf's safe landing was most vocal, Gen Usmani. May Allah grant him the highest place in Jannat.

Amen. He passed away few years back in his vehicle, simple car and clothes.
Had a tragic life both kids one passing away and only survived by daughter I believe, who has medical issues.

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan had lot of options. Also I want to tell you one thing. Over whelming amount of Generals in the Army pretty much all core commanders opposed Musharraf move. They have discipline that is why they followed it.

@Meengla

No Pakistani general is going to risk a military confrontation over Taliban with USA. The anger in USA after 9/11 was intense. Musharraf knew enough about America to avoid it.

for the record I think Musharraf is a lousy general and lousy politician. On 9/11 his rapport with Colin Powell was key for Pakistan. Let us say Pakistan avoided a disaster.

@Zarvan

 

[Vapnope]

How do we miss everything before 9/11 and jump directly to Musharraf collapsing when Us general calls !

This isn't a secret anymore that CIA had been pressing ISI to help them with capture of Bin Laden and AQ planners in Afghanistan 3 months before 9/11 but Pakistan was not ready to cooperate because the intel reports were vague. When 9/11 happened, Americans had no stomach for anymore delays and wanted an immediate action and hence their threatening call to Musharraf.

Musharraf failed to capitalize on the one time opportunity to get better deal with US but keeping in mind the past history, it is anyone's guess that he wasn't in a position to demand anything substantial.