Why isn't there a Muslim 'EU'/NATO?

[hussain0216]

What about India? Is it not a tad convenient that Indian Muslims are only used to hit India with, but never given the respect and acceptance they should get from other Muslims as equal stakeholders? Can you have a Muslim NATO that excludes 200 million Muslims and in all probability would go to war against the same 200 million Muslims. Because let's face it, India will eventually go to war against Pakistan. And if there is a Muslim NATO and an Article 5 equivalent, then 56 Muslim nations would go to war against India in retaliation. An India where 200 million Muslims make their home, are born and live and die.



The Mahabharata, and the War of the Ten Kings before it, were a continuum of the violent schism between the Aryan people of Iran and India on the issue of who were their Gods and who the Demons. These were bound to happen when such fundamental rifts divide a great people. What existed after that was an uneasy truce and a racial and geographical handsoff policy. Today's Pakistan stands right in the middle of that. As do to a certain extent Afghanistan and Balochistan (both the Pakistani and Iranian parts). In any case, call it Akhand Bharat or whatever you will, but India is oncourse to reclaiming its cultural and economic dominance over it's old sphere of influence in this part of the world.

Indian Muslims don't have a state

 

[Sam6536]

There are territorial disputes between Muslim nations but there are also such disputes amongst Europeans. There are differences on policy between the US and EU , even, but they still come to a settlement of some sort.

Tribal/Sectarian lines are the biggest hinderance to such an alliance, but these can be overcome too. In a Muslim 'EU'/NATO, the powerful Muslim nations would lead such an alliance and micromanage the sectarian/tribal differences. We are looking at :

1.) Saudi Arabia
2.) Iran
3.) Turkey
4.) Pakistan
5.) Egypt
6.) Algeria
7.) Indonesia
8.) Qatar
9.) Kuwait
10.) UAE

etc.... I probably missed a few so feel free to pitch in.

There must be social/political/economic cooperation. While the more powerful nations contribute to creating a humanitarian fund to help the less fortunate in impoverished areas. They do not need to be on the same page on everything but there must be a settlement in conflict hot zones such as Yemen, Syria. The Union must at least diplomatically and financially support popular causes such as Palestine, Kashmir, etc.... To keep them on the radar. Military solutions to such causes are not realistic at the moment.

Turkey/Qatar has influence over the Muslim Brotherhood and can cause shift to their agenda to begin preaching for an integrated region, that despite big differences among them, can at least pause the culture war in the region, setting change to permantely eliminate it in future.

Saudi Arabia likewise has influence over Arab bloc/Salafi bloc. And can do same.

Iran has the influence over Shia bloc and can reign its proxies in.

...
...

Obviously people will say it's because of US influence. Those that say that also must consider Russian influence. The real reason is people in region do not trust each other. Extending your hand is met with being taken advantage of, by a bloc that wants it all and does not believe in sharing.

I don't understand why we as Muslims can be so selfish and greedy. What is wrong with making some sacrifice in geopolitical interests for greater good of people of region?

If there are any other factors you think prevents a formation of Muslim EU, please share. I can think of one more:

1.) Nations aren't developed enough, and do not know what their potential is, and what they can bring the to the table, especially with oil being phased out in coming decades.

^^

European nations were more developed an each offer something unique. Muslim nations have not realized their potential , despite some of them like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, and maybe Saudi Arabia offering more in some sectors.

Saudis are too busy sucking up to the West and have friendly relations with India, plus they're getting pretty lax given that they've even allowed temples in Saudi Arabia.
Iran to me looks like only is conservative when it comes to domestic audience, on international stage they have good relations with us and Russia.
Turkey is smart they don't take a clear stand and play on both sides. They're in NATO so they're very much in western block at the end of the day.
Pakistan well yeah religion dominates their foreign policy.
Rest of the nations that you've mentioned look pretty liberal to me, idk tho Qatar i know is conservative and has a bad human rights record.
Well there's infighting between factions so there's that.

I don't these these nations want to play the religion card yet. Most are trying to fit in the international world order and do what's best for their people.

 

[Wergeland]

Because the muslim worlds lacks a dominant leader like USA, who can enforce a muslim NATO.

 

[R2D2]

Here is an old article:

Multilateral Alliance for a Free Trade Agreement (MAFTA)

Formation of an economic block MAFTA composed of Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, China, UAE, Central Asian Republics, Afghanistan, Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, Japan, Cuba, Bolivia, Ireland, Albania, Brunei Dar as Salam, Bangladesh, Sudan, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Palestinian Authority for free trade without or at reduced customs duties.

A MAFTA secretariat should be formed in Pakistan to coordinate all the activities.

Pakistan can benefit from adaptation of the advanced technologies from brotherly countries.

Afghanistan can benefit from export of its fruits and import of goods from the countries in the bloc.

Malaysia and Indonesia are rich in Palm oil and can meet the needs of member countries. Malaysia is also ahead in technology.

Pakistan is a big exporter of Textile and Leather goods and has a growing Defense Industry.

Brazil is an important member of BRICS group and the biggest exporter in South America.

Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela are major exporters of crude oil. Russia is also a big exporter of gas and can supply Pakistan through its purchased gas from Turkmenistan.

Japan is the technological giant of the East and is already helping Pakistan in various projects. Its economy is in recession and would benefit from exports to the bloc.

Republic of Ireland is known for its independent foreign policy and business friendly environment on the European mainland.

The Palestinians in the Palestinian Authority and Diaspora are the most educated people among the Arabs, they can provide the export of human and intellectual capital composed of Doctors, Engineers, Teachers to areas selected for development like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sudan etc.

Turkey is leading the Muslim world in technology, foreign investment and outreach.

Food security is one of the biggest issues and by cooperating with South American countries agriculture technology and commodities can be imported and corporate farms can also be established there.

 

[AlKardai]

Here is an old article:

Multilateral Alliance for a Free Trade Agreement (MAFTA)

Formation of an economic block MAFTA composed of Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, China, UAE, Central Asian Republics, Afghanistan, Brazil, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, Japan, Cuba, Bolivia, Ireland, Albania, Brunei Dar as Salam, Bangladesh, Sudan, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Palestinian Authority for free trade without or at reduced customs duties.

A MAFTA secretariat should be formed in Pakistan to coordinate all the activities.

Pakistan can benefit from adaptation of the advanced technologies from brotherly countries.

Afghanistan can benefit from export of its fruits and import of goods from the countries in the bloc.

Malaysia and Indonesia are rich in Palm oil and can meet the needs of member countries. Malaysia is also ahead in technology.

Pakistan is a big exporter of Textile and Leather goods and has a growing Defense Industry.

Brazil is an important member of BRICS group and the biggest exporter in South America.

Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela are major exporters of crude oil. Russia is also a big exporter of gas and can supply Pakistan through its purchased gas from Turkmenistan.

Japan is the technological giant of the East and is already helping Pakistan in various projects. Its economy is in recession and would benefit from exports to the bloc.

Republic of Ireland is known for its independent foreign policy and business friendly environment on the European mainland.

The Palestinians in the Palestinian Authority and Diaspora are the most educated people among the Arabs, they can provide the export of human and intellectual capital composed of Doctors, Engineers, Teachers to areas selected for development like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sudan etc.

Turkey is leading the Muslim world in technology, foreign investment and outreach.

Food security is one of the biggest issues and by cooperating with South American countries agriculture technology and commodities can be imported and corporate farms can also be established there.

It's an excellent idea, but ultimately fruitless.
Because no world leaders listen to dudes on the PDF lol

 

[TNT]

Most muslim countries are mere puppets and thus cant have independent decisions.

 

[mulj]

Answer is simple, there was no technological means to make intra operational, even now it would be stretch to organize such military alliance, no nuclear air carriers, subs, strategic air transportation, jet fighters and such under production of muslim populated states.
Without that you can not have essential backbone of effective and easy operable task forces even if you overcome all common disunity between countries you need to overcome this obstacle first.
And at the end also there is big problem which countries would be first among equals, lot of work, trust and connections to be interwind before such organization could take basic shape, also what is almost unsolvable issue is state governance in muslim nations, you have monarchies, republics, dictatorships etc., NATO main strenght is derived from ideological uniformity on state levels, that itself would be enormous challenge to overcome for interested countries.
Less ambitious goal could be achieved by regions and between lingvistic and cultural similar countries,

 

[R2D2]

It's an excellent idea, but ultimately fruitless.
Because no world leaders listen to dudes on the PDF lol

Hope that they listen.

 

[ARMalik]

There are territorial disputes between Muslim nations but there are also such disputes amongst Europeans. There are differences on policy between the US and EU , even, but they still come to a settlement of some sort.

Tribal/Sectarian lines are the biggest hinderance to such an alliance, but these can be overcome too. In a Muslim 'EU'/NATO, the powerful Muslim nations would lead such an alliance and micromanage the sectarian/tribal differences. We are looking at :

1.) Saudi Arabia
2.) Iran
3.) Turkey
4.) Pakistan
5.) Egypt
6.) Algeria
7.) Indonesia
8.) Qatar
9.) Kuwait
10.) UAE

etc.... I probably missed a few so feel free to pitch in.

There must be social/political/economic cooperation. While the more powerful nations contribute to creating a humanitarian fund to help the less fortunate in impoverished areas. They do not need to be on the same page on everything but there must be a settlement in conflict hot zones such as Yemen, Syria. The Union must at least diplomatically and financially support popular causes such as Palestine, Kashmir, etc.... To keep them on the radar. Military solutions to such causes are not realistic at the moment.

Turkey/Qatar has influence over the Muslim Brotherhood and can cause shift to their agenda to begin preaching for an integrated region, that despite big differences among them, can at least pause the culture war in the region, setting change to permantely eliminate it in future.

Saudi Arabia likewise has influence over Arab bloc/Salafi bloc. And can do same.

Iran has the influence over Shia bloc and can reign its proxies in.

...
...

Obviously people will say it's because of US influence. Those that say that also must consider Russian influence. The real reason is people in region do not trust each other. Extending your hand is met with being taken advantage of, by a bloc that wants it all and does not believe in sharing.

I don't understand why we as Muslims can be so selfish and greedy. What is wrong with making some sacrifice in geopolitical interests for greater good of people of region?

If there are any other factors you think prevents a formation of Muslim EU, please share. I can think of one more:

1.) Nations aren't developed enough, and do not know what their potential is, and what they can bring the to the table, especially with oil being phased out in coming decades.

^^

European nations were more developed an each offer something unique. Muslim nations have not realized their potential , despite some of them like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, and maybe Saudi Arabia offering more in some sectors.

No Muslim country would be willing to form Muslims NATO knowing perfectly well that there would be Beggars like Pakistani Establishment who would sell their own country for a few cents.

 

[R2D2]

If India sides with the Muslim World on major issues, it would be a good move. There was Non Aligned Movement (NAM). India under Nehru was its leading member.

 

[Brainsucker]

Before the Arab Spring, Islam NATO was a possibility. Palestine problem had united some Muslim Countries in Middle East to join together. But unfortunatelly, it is impossible today. Libya is gone, Syria has been diminished. Iran has become the enemy of Sunny.

So to be honest, as long as Syiah and Sunny become the enemy to each others, Islam will forever be weak. So, the one who destroy Muslim Countries is actually Muslim Countries themselves.

If Gaddafi still around, Syria still hold the ground, Iran still considered as fellow muslim country, and everyone still think about Palestine and Israel, Muslim NATO can be realized. And this group will has quite descent power to hold on their own.

The four biggest powers of the Muslim world are Pakistan, Turkiye, Saudi and Iran.

Indonesia has an excellent amount of economic depth, however

Indonesia won't join anyone. We are "bebas aktif". It means we always neutral, because that is written in our basic law, that mean all Indonesian government, parliament have to obey that notion.

 

[AlKardai]

Before the Arab Spring, Islam NATO was a possibility. Palestine problem had united some Muslim Countries in Middle East to join together. But unfortunatelly, it is impossible today. Libya is gone, Syria has been diminished. Iran has become the enemy of Sunny.

So to be honest, as long as Syiah and Sunny become the enemy to each others, Islam will forever be weak. So, the one who destroy Muslim Countries is actually Muslim Countries themselves.


Indonesia won't join anyone. We are "bebas aktif". It means we always neutral, because that is written in our basic law, that mean all Indonesian government, parliament have to obey that notion.

Fair enough, more muslim NATO for us to have

 

[R2D2]

We should also think of a multinational force for helping Muslim countries that are attacked. The multi-national army led be Pakistani Gen. Raheel Sharif in Saudi Arabia can be utilized for this purpose.

 

[AlKardai]

We should also think of a multinational force for helping Muslim countries that are attacked. The multi-national army led be Pakistani Gen. Raheel Sharif in Saudi Arabia can be utilized for this purpose.

I disagree.

Fighters from across the entire ummah will turn up if a muslim country is attacked, anyway.

You also have to realise that many Islamic countries are fighting against each other, so it would require the force to side against or alongside a specific nation during the conflict.

This is ultimately the last thing that should happen

 

[Ssan]

Guys, the only way we could start this process is by forming a union of the three countries I mentioned in the beginning. Pakistan, Iran and Turkey.

Such a union would end sectarian rivalry, no more Sunni Shia rivalry, it would also form the backbone for future enlargement of the union. It would also be democratic which is important because the future of the Muslim world will have to be such.

And it would lay the ground work for how to create such a union based on Islam even if the underlying countries have vast cultural differences.