Why is My Hijab Your Problem?

[Zulkarneyn]

NO THEY WON'T... People here think that it will all by hunky-dory @ Mullahs in power!


You first. I am big enough to offer one, however, I didn't start the tirade!

you actually did

 

[Developereo]

No mate, Zulkarneyn was attacking me personally, and you replied to that prticular post. What does that say about you. I had a very decent view of Hijabis et al... Now I've found is that there is middle ground with these people.... There is no moderation with these people...... I'm extremely disappointed not because of Zulkarneyn, however, wasn't expecting this from you!

I haven't read the whole thread but, from the first few pages, there were personal attacks flying in all directions. I have witnessed these debates between Turks before and they always get ugly.

My point, as I wrote in my post, is that the hijab should not be banned or mandated by the State. It is, and should remain, a personal choice.

I personally believe that in this day and age you do not have marauding aliens surfing the sand loking for nubile virgins to pick up and ravage. So these laws are seriously archaic and abhorrent to the modern viewpoint.

Give your daughters good values when they are growing up. And trust them enough as mature adults and well-brought up ladies to know what to wear and what not to wear.

The way most of us non muslims see it, this stuff is truly 7th century regression.

How do you decide what is acceptable? Should Sikhs stop wearing the kirpan because there is no need to walk around with a knife? Should Hindus be banned from public places with a red *** because others might be offended at a cultural oddity? How about nuns, Hassidic Jews, Amish people?

Note that we are not talking about the face covering, but simply the hijab which is no more encumbering than a regular head scarf.

P.S. Why is d-o-t censored above, as in red d-o-t? Weird.

 

[Hyperion]

you actually did

Dude read my posts first.

My stand was:

1. Everyone has the right to either wear or REJECT the hijab.
2. Don't make this a political statement.
3. Consquences are bad when you MIX religion with politics.

Now read the above again.

Now read the comment below which sent you ballistic

"Ask the Turks on this forum. It is a real problem, and a very dangerous one at that!

Now tell me, is the above statement wrong?

1. In Turkey it was made a political issue, WHICH fucked every thing up.
2. It polarized the society INTO two halves.

Tell wtf is wrong there?

Besides, whatever meaning you infer from the above statement, IT WAS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK, what you did was totally uncalled for!

 

[Luffy 500]

Noh, what I mean is; stop playing victim, hijabis consider themselves superior
Non hijabi liberals dont care

So when taliban get in power theyll FORCE it on everyone, but now you are free to wear or nor wear

What is that? BTW there is no such thing as liberal in Islam. A muslim is just a muslim and should follow all the commandants of Allah(swt) as preached and practiced by our beloved prophet
Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions. You do know that Hijab for women is farz right? And also there is a hijab for us as well. We should should lower our gaze in front of women. We should not look at women with ill intentions.

 

[angeldust]

How do you decide what is acceptable? Should Sikhs stop wearing the kirpan because there is no need to walk around with a knife? Should Hindus be banned from public places with a red *** because others might be offended at a cultural oddity? How about nuns, Hassidic Jews, Amish people?

Note that we are not talking about the face covering, but simply the hijab which is no more encumbering than a regular head scarf.

I do not think it is up to me as a man to pass judgment either way. Take religion out of it. Let a girl dress like the rest of the world does. Or be equal in your enforcement of the rules laid down centuries ago and forbid your men from looking up at any woman. Muslim or non-muslim does not matter. Go through life with head bowed. I don't see your men doing that. No sir. Not even when their black cloaked wives are following meekly one step behind.

 

[Hyperion]

IMy point, as I wrote in my post, is that the hijab should not be banned or mandated by the State. It is, and should remain, a personal choice.

That was always my stance! What I want is, religion to be not mixed with politics. I joined this forum, so that I get a chance to reach out to people, and gauge the interest of the educated class, and project what will happen in the distant future. What I see here is the divide and chasms in society are wider than ever before. This is not my Pakistan, now who do I blame it on?

 

[Al Bhatti]

 

[Zulkarneyn]

If you think this post

FIRST OF ALL MY VIEWS ON HIJAB SO YOU UNDERSTAND THEM

"NO ONE SHOULD BE FORCED TO EITHER REMOVE OR PUT ON HIJAB"

NOW REPLY TO YOUR PATHETIC TRY AT PERSONAL ATTACK:

You prick, I have paid my dues, and I am a Turkish national from long time (WHEN TURKIYE WAS A DIRT POOR COUNTRY - WHEN EVERYONE HAD TO MAKE A LINE TO GET BREAD --- WHEN THERE WAS NO ELECTRICITY ----- WHEN THERE WAS NO SUGAR ---- WHEN TECHNOLOGICALLY YOU WERE SOMALIA ---- WHEN YOU HAD ONE TV CHANNEL)! Who are you by the way, a "Syrian" Turk, a "Tajik" Turk, an "Azeri" Turk" or you migrated from --- Kars --- Van ---- Mardin --- Gaziantep ---- Iskenderoon -- Adana ---- Mersin??? If you are, means you are an ARAB, not a Turk. FYI my mom is REAL BLOOD TURKISH (NOT: ARABIZED TURK / PKK TURK)!!!!

I know your PM, and his family intimately. I know all his side ventures from the time of Istanbul Belediye till date! Don't ever lecture me on the piety of what has been going on since the times of Necmettin Erbakan under the "Veil", from Ulus in Ankara to dark corners of small meeting rooms in Sinop.

WTF ----- Firstly why don't you get out of Denmark? Your retarded values are absolutely incompatible with Danish cultural and personal values!

I bet I wield more power with every king maker in Turkey than you! Go **** yourself now!

"Ne Mutlu Türküm Diyene"

Do you want me to open more dirty laundry?????????

NOTE TO ALL OTHERS: This is what happens when fundamentalists taste power for the first time, they all of a sudden develop fangs! Beware of the mad-dogs....

If this is not an attack, then i don't know what is.
The underlines pretty much illustrates your twisted personality. On the one side you say Turkey was a dump during the secular facsists and then you come with such a twisted statement. Now what should we make of this? You try to denigrate AKP for their islamic roots, while at the same time you acknowledge that Turkey was a dump in the past.
It seems being among too many secular fascists has twisted you considerably.

 

[angeldust]

And do you count Muslim men amongst those flies as well?

 

[Developereo]

I appreciatte what you are saying and this is my point too. But you cant deny the fact that religious fascists are the starter of this problem. I am all for personal freedom, but will mullahs and their forllowers accept that and leave us alone?

I believe the way to fight the mullahs' extremism is not with liberal extremism, but with a moderate position that respects the fact that people are fairly conservative and don't want their traditions upset overnight. The State has the obligation to set an example respecting individual freedoms and setting a precedent for moderation.

How can the State demand moderation from the mullahs if it itself is repressive in the other extreme by denying individual freedoms?

This is the problem we have in Pakistan where the debate is polarized by both extremes.

 

[Al Bhatti]

And do you count Muslim men amongst those flies as well?

Yes, if they have the habit of looking at things which they are not supposed to see or they see things in an inappropriate way

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

You prick, I have paid my dues, and I am a Turkish national from long time (WHEN TURKIYE WAS A DIRT POOR COUNTRY - WHEN EVERYONE HAD TO MAKE A LINE TO GET BREAD --- WHEN THERE WAS NO ELECTRICITY ----- WHEN THERE WAS NO SUGAR ---- WHEN TECHNOLOGICALLY YOU WERE SOMALIA ---- WHEN YOU HAD ONE TV CHANNEL)! Who are you by the way, a "Syrian" Turk, a "Tajik" Turk, an "Azeri" Turk" or you migrated from --- Kars --- Van ---- Mardin --- Gaziantep ---- Iskenderoon -- Adana ---- Mersin??? If you are, means you are an ARAB, not a Turk. FYI my mom is REAL BLOOD TURKISH (NOT: ARABIZED TURK / PKK TURK)!!!!

What's wrong with Arab? You are a racist yourself man although you have got disappointed by others because "allegedly" they were racists with you. I don't know how to put this, but figuratively, the black people can't be racist with the white ones. You just can't be racist.

 

[angeldust]

Yes, if they have the habit of looking at things which they are not supposed to see or they see things in an inappropriate way

So how do you prevent that? For your girls you have these various dress laws. What are the laws that prevent you from oggling our girls?

 

[Ahmad]

What is that? BTW there is no such thing as liberal in Islam. A muslim is just a muslim and should follow all the commandants of Allah(swt) as preached and practiced by our beloved prophet
Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions. You do know that Hijab for women is farz right? And also there is a hijab for us as well. We should should lower our gaze in front of women. We should not look at women with ill intentions.

I personally think what you say is correct. But we are talking about somethig else, should all of these be forced on people by the state and religious police or the individuals should have the choice?

 

[Hyperion]

If you think this post

If this is not an attack, then i don't know what is.
The underlines pretty much illustrates your twisted personality. On the one side you say Turkey was a dump during the secular facsists and then you come with such a twisted statement. Now what should we make of this? You try to denigrate AKP for their islamic roots, while at the same time you acknowledge that Turkey was a dump in the past.
It seems being among too many secular fascists has twisted you considerably.

Dude, this is when you made me mad with your previous post, you know what I am talking about.

TURKEY WAS NOT A DUMP.. TURKEY WAS WHERE PAKISTAN IS TODAY.... AND PAKISTAN WAS WHERE TURKEY IS TODAY... ALL RELATIVE....

Now some info to ease your mind, I am good family friend with the politicians you are talking about. I have nothing against the party. However, my problem stems from taking a 180 degree approach to what was happening before. There is such a thing called middle ground. Else you are going for deep fissures in Turkish society!