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Why India Will Displace China as Global Growth Engine.

i totally agree with you....there is no point in comparing with each other and paint the wall RED to please each other.....Indian people and its government need to understand this and work towards the growth of country.....as Chinese did 30 years back, we will also reap. if not, then we will be the greatest fools who has the capacity in terms of human resources, knowledge, other capacity wise and still couldn't stand up to expectations....i speak as an Indian myself.

K let's be serious for a moment.

YES, India CAN outpace China's growth. Considering that China's economy was 7.3 trillion in 2011, it will become harder and harder for us to grow fast due to the enormous amount of GDP we have to add every year.

India on the other hand, with a 1.5 trillion GDP in 2011, needs to add far less to their economy to grow at double-digits. At this stage of development, India should be growing at double digits, but inefficient bureaucracy has led India now to this growth rate:

India to see 4.5 per cent GDP growth this fiscal: OECD - Economic Times

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/225036-why-india-will-displace-china-global-growth-engine.html#ixzz2G694tOYx

in reply to..

i totally agree with you....there is no point in comparing with each other and paint the wall RED to please each other.....Indian people and its government need to understand this and work towards the growth of country.....as Chinese did 30 years back, we will also reap. if not, then we will be the greatest fools who has the capacity in terms of human resources, knowledge, other capacity wise and still couldn't stand up to expectations....i speak as an Indian myself.[/QUOTE]
 
Come on. Again???

Why India Will Displace China as Global Growth Engine.
By A. Gary Shilling Dec 17, 2012 5:00 AM GMT+0530

Most of us still look at China, the world’s second-largest economy, as the undisputed leader among major developing countries. In the long run, however, I’m betting on India to emerge as the more significant global economy.
Those who are dazzled by China often forget that much of the rapid growth before 2008 was caused by the shift of global manufacturing from Europe and the U.S., not by domestic-oriented activity. China’s economy remains export-driven, with consumers accounting for only 38 percent of gross domestic product, far below the levels of many developing and developed countries.


Chinese leaders are working to shift toward a more domestically directed economy. They want households to spend more and save much less than the current rate of almost 30 percent. One of the reasons that savings play such a big role is the high value Confucian society puts on providing for one’s family. The Chinese also save to pay for education for their children and to cover health care and retirement costs because there is no equivalent of Medicare and Social Security.
In 2010, the Chinese government promised basic health care for all by 2020. That’s eight years from now, and basic care remains pretty basic. In some rural hospitals, a practical nurse is the most highly trained medical practitioner.
Higher Wages
China has also increased minimum wages 20 percent to 30 percent in the last year to enhance consumer incomes and purchasing power. Yet higher pay, notably for factory workers producing goods for foreign companies, is driving low-skilled manufacturing jobs to cheaper venues such as Vietnam, Bangladesh and Pakistan.

Furthermore, Western companies are increasingly resisting the requirement that they transfer technical expertise to Chinese partners as the price of setting up production facilities in China. There is a widespread belief that much of the success of Chinese manufacturers is due to such voluntary technology transfers or outright theft of intellectual property.
China recently reduced its target for real GDP annual growth to 7.5 percent from 8 percent. That target is probably too high as China’s one-child policy leads to a population decline, especially among new labor-force entrants. The number of 15- to 24-year-olds is already dropping and this group is projected to account for 150 million people in 2030, compared with 250 million in 1990. As a result, China’s labor force between the ages of 15 and 65 is expected to peak in 2014.
China’s ample labor has increased GDP growth by an estimated 1.8 percentage points annually since the 1970s, but the contraction will cut into growth by 0.7 percentage point by 2030. At the same time, better conditions in rural areas have reduced the availability of cheap labor in coastal cities.
By contrast, India has had no effective constraints on population growth. China still has the advantage -- with 1.34 billion people last year, compared with India’s 1.24 billion -- though not for too much longer. Furthermore, the age distribution of India’s population is better because of China’s one-child policy, which is now being reconsidered in view of its negative consequences for the country’s long-term labor force and economic growth. This means that the dependency ratio, the proportion of children and senior citizens to working-age people, is expected to continue falling in India in coming decades and to increase in China.

Younger Population

Younger people, of course, tend to be more geographically mobile, flexible in terms of occupation and creative. But these advantages only translate into greater productivity and economic growth if these workers have the right education and training as well as job opportunities.
Several centuries of British colonial rule left India with a vigorous democracy and a parliamentary form of government. As in the U.S., these kinds of institutions are very well adapted to running a large, religiously diverse country where the central government is constrained by increasingly powerful states and weak coalition governments. China, however, remains centrally controlled, with the Communist Mao Dynasty, as I’ve dubbed it, simply replacing the dynasties of old.
The British also left India with a railway system that enabled the relatively easy movement of people and goods in that vast country. By contrast, China doesn’t grant resident status to farmers who move to urban areas in search of work.
And, of course, the British gave India the English language -- very useful in today’s world and a unifying force in a country with hundreds of languages and dialects. India also inherited a legal system that is very different from the Communist Party-dominated courts in China, which feature show trials and foregone convictions, as demonstrated by the recent trial and conviction of Gu Kailai, the wife of the disgraced party leader Bo Xilai.
India is also home to a number of large, sophisticated companies, such as Tata Group, that can compete globally. China, meanwhile, is burdened with government-controlled banks and other hugely inefficient state-owned enterprises that still produce a significant share of GDP and employ a quarter of the workforce.
Indians have a natural bent toward technology, as was pointed out to me by the U.S. ambassador to India when I visited him in his New Delhi office in 1986. The ability of India’s many engineers and scientists to communicate in English is also a big help. Furthermore, the booming information-technology sector relies more on new technologies such as satellite transmission than it does on India’s utilities and inadequate basic infrastructure.

English Speakers

U.S. and European companies outsource many back-office and even legal and medical services to India. Outsourcing now yields about $69 billion in annual revenue, accounting for a quarter of Indian exports. The lower wages in India and English-language skills of call-center employees offer big advantages to this industry.
Another asset for India, as well as China, is a rapidly growing middle class. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP estimates that 470 million Indians, or 38 percent of the population, had annual incomes of between $1,000 and $4,000 in 2010, enough to permit some discretionary spending. The number of consumers with such ready cash is expected to jump to 570 million in a decade, with about $1 trillion in income.
The household-savings rate is high, almost 30 percent. Even so, 82 percent of Indian households had phones, usually mobile, last year. Of the 247 million Indian households, 77 percent owned televisions, and 42 percent had bicycles, motor scooters or motorcycles, though only 10 percent possessed a motor vehicle, according to the 2011 census of India. Furthermore, much of Indian household saving is invested in gold and the dowries of yet-to-be married daughters.
Another strong point is that the Reserve Bank of India is relatively independent of government influence, while the People’s Bank of China is completely controlled by the state. During the recent regime change in China, the PBOC governor, Zhou Xiaochuan, was dropped from the list of 205 members of the Communist Party’s Central Committee and is apparently being forced into retirement. Politicians, not central bankers, call the monetary shots in China.
India has a vigorous and opinionated free press, compared with China’s state-controlled propaganda machine. Internet use in India is expanding, although it is still tiny compared with the U.S. and even its BRIC cohorts: Brazil, Russia and China.

(A. Gary Shilling is president of A. Gary Shilling & Co. and author of “The Age of Deleveraging: Investment Strategies for a Decade of Slow Growth and Deflation.” The opinions expressed are his own. This is the first in a five-part series.)

About A Gary Shilling»
A. Gary Shilling, a Bloomberg View columnist, is president of A. Gary Shilling & Co., a consultancy in Springfield

To contact the writer of this article: A. Gary Shilling at insight@agaryshilling.com

To contact the editor responsible for this article: Max Berley at mberley@bloomberg.net

Why India Will Displace China as Global Growth Engine - Bloomberg
 
It is a ridiculous article. :rofl:

Ridiculous was how a great super power that Soviet Union was in 1985, under went utter collapse less than 3 years later in 1988.

Those who remain behind a curtain, an iron one or a bamboo one, should be worried lot.
 
Haven't people like you made such forecasts for 20 years already? I do not see there is any sign China will collapse but become stronger.

I do not see any sign that india is closing the gap but China getting further ahead.

Before you can show us some concrete steps and results, please stop providing those kinds of empty talks.


Ridiculous was how a great super power that Soviet Union was in 1985, under went utter collapse less than 3 years later in 1988.

Those who remain behind a curtain, an iron one or a bamboo one, should be worried lot.
 
well india should become a first world Country, i dont see the issue with China though. There should be good neighbourly Relations and both countries should prosper. Im a Humanist all People on earth should unite and prosper
 
Haven't people like you made such forecasts for 20 years already? I do not see there is any sign China will collapse but become stronger.

I do not see any sign that india is closing the gap but China getting further ahead.

Before you can show us some concrete steps and results, please stop providing those kinds of empty talks.

The fact remains, no one really knows how soon or late those "3 years" (1985-88) might come for china.

I am not predicting anything ... just that we all know that a "bamboo curtain" does exist.

And that is not a good omen.

Relax ... those "3 years" may not come for china during your lifetime. Or it could be as soon as 2013-16.

Meanwhile, the world is unsparing as always .... it is quietly and happily eating out the fruits of china's coal mining and life sacrifices of china's coal miners. It offers not even crocodile tears for cadmium in china's rice or hell caused by rare-earths refining.

Meanwhile, china's elite can enjoy European wines and chinese "tourists" can return the "billions" earned back to the west.

It is "china's time" to be high.

After all, the bamboo curtain is still in place. :tup:
 
China has lifted hundreds of millions people out of poverty. China's rise does not only benefit the so-called elite few but quite mass normal people.

I do not think you can call those Chinese traveling abroad now elite. My parent have traveled abroad many times and they are just normal engineers.

So do not confuse the west fanfare with the reality in China.



The fact remains, no one really knows how soon or late those "3 years" (1985-88) might come for china.

I am not predicting anything ... just that we all know that a "bamboo curtain" does exist.

And that is not a good omen.

Relax ... those "3 years" may not come for china during your lifetime. Or it could be as soon as 2013-16.

Meanwhile, the world is unsparing as always .... it is quietly and happily eating out the fruits of china's coal mining and life sacrifices of china's coal miners. It offers not even crocodile tears for cadmium in china's rice or hell caused by rare-earths refining.

Meanwhile, china's elite can enjoy European wines and chinese "tourists" can return the "billions" earned back to the west.

It is "china's time" to be high.

After all, the bamboo curtain is still in place. :tup:
 
Isn't debt good for an economy? Please explain it to me as I am a science student and not in business.
 
Isn't debt good for an economy? Please explain it to me as I am a science student and not in business.
as long as you can pay the debt, thats fine, you are using tomorrow money to boost today, get the money and pay it back. all the great economy has a huge debt, check the history since national debt existing.
 
The original post is really ridiculous in many aspects.

It basically says that due to the following India will surpass China:
1) China is still Mao type of centralized control, whereas India copy/pasted western system.
2) China’s manufacturing is getting more expensive.
3) Due to one child policy, China is going to lose cheap labor force.
4) India has English speaking population whereas the Chinese suck at English.

The following is simple knowledge. If anyone doesn’t still possess those simple facts, his/her brain development must be below that of homo erectus.

1) China carries government guided free capitalism. It is vastly different from Mao’s system where private business was only allowed existing in negligibly small scale. It is precisely the guidance from the central power that financial crises only exist so far in countries like Thailand (1997), USA (2008), not in China. Knowledgeable people already recognized that it is because this type of state capitalism that it has many advantages (of course with some disadvantages). In contrast, India’s rambunctious democracy doesn’t solve much fundamental problems that India suffers since ancient times: corruption, caste practice, illiteracy, low inefficiency.

2) China’s manufacturing is getting more expensive means the Chinese enjoy more the benefits of their hard work. They therefore have more chance to get educated for their children and themselves, too. This will help stimulate their internal consumption and advance their level of manufacturing. Also, China’s manufacturing is getting more expensive does not necessarily mean manufacturing will be automatically relocated to India. :lol: India has infamously business hostile bureaucracy known world-wide, and its shabby infrastructure and ill-educated labor forces, not to mention frequent sectarian violence, rampant gang raping, notorious racism, etc., all deter businessmen from doing business in India.

3) As I mentioned more than 100 times, massive young population does not automatically translate into population dividend. For youngsters to be constructive to a society, they must be properly educated, must be provided opportunities with fair competition. It is very hard to image a society with such vast illiteracy and malnutrition, yet with little opportunity and lots practice of caste in vast rural area would turn massive youngsters into the dividend. Rather, it is easy to see how the ill-educated kids cause so many social unrests: violence, murders, rapes within India and abroad… In fact, it seems those massive uneducated or under-educated turn themselves into a negative dividend that not only Indians have to pay the price, but the people of other countries as well. In contrast, Japan doesn’t have so called population dividend. Japan is an aging country. Yet, the Japanese enjoy the prosperities that are envied by lots countries with “population dividend”. Just wondering why the theorists of “population dividend” have not vanished in their clown stage if they can set their mind free from sand dune and only look at countries like Japan, etc. and do a comparison with Africa countries where the population is very young.

4) English speaking? LOL! Unlike China where the manufacturing can hire huge mass who don;t speak English but Chinese, call center and software outsource can only provide small amount population with employment. Moreover, if you look at the hard fact that is: China doesn’t have to speak English to become the largest outsource destination of Japan/Korea, etc. who are much closer to China to endure less expenses.

More realistically, anyone who claims that he can predict the future is a hypocrite to say the minimal. He can make Indians happy, to forget the ground reality, to live in a fairytale story such as tortoise-hare race. He will find a vast and happy consumer market for his article in the largest democracy, but he cannot endure any detailed analysis by hard facts.
 
Is India still scheduled to displace China?

China-India Nominal GDP (1980-2013)
International Monetary Fund

Figures in $millions

YearChinaIndia
1980202,458181,416
1985307,017227,873
1990390,279323,527
1995727,947365,020
20001,198,477476,350
20052,256,919808,744
20105,930,3931,614,834
20117,321,9861,838,166
20128,227,0371,824,832

List of countries by past and future GDP (nominal)

What happened to the Indian economy in 2012?
 
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