Why has India struggled to buy fighter aircraft?

[Storm Force]

That is where problem lies
Term wreck havoc is used only when the opposition has no airforce, you can't havoc on even 1/3 airforce or he'll even 1/6 airforce.

Definitively, Not when opposition by 2025 would be 70% of what you will be, if assuming PAF does induct 200-250 thunders and do get additional fighters..


IAF would probably or I would most likely win a long engagement with PAD but you might lose too if we look at the past especially if proper tactics are not employed , training, pilot shortage and spare shortage is not addressed

Completely Wrong

Both IAF & PAF cannot fight a long engagement because both rely on Foreign equipment for air power. Pakistans F16 fleet will be sanctioned as USA will definitely block all spares in a war in South Asia. Your F16 is the only real 4th generation fighter at this moment time .

India too relys on Russian French & Israeli systems so long engagment is not possible

Indian military is built to fight a FULL THROTTLE war for no more than 20 days

IMO just like Israel did to ARABS in 1967 ONE we will have to win the air war in first 72 hours

There is no such thing as a long war

PS to any Pakistani talking about long wars how many days can Pakistani economy and military sustain a full blown conventional war against INDIA

MY guess no more than 10 days before you start rushing Nawaz to USA and CHINA to broker a cease fire as per KARGIL in 99 which was just a border skirmish in reality and involved just 10% of indian military power

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is where problem lies
Term wreck havoc is used only when the opposition has no airforce, you can't havoc on even 1/3 airforce or he'll even 1/6 airforce.

Definitively, Not when opposition by 2025 would be 70% of what you will be, if assuming PAF does induct 200-250 thunders and do get additional fighters..

PLAAF operates over 1000 4 gen fighters with mix of j10(400+), Flanders and j20..there is no comparison there

IAF would probably or I would most likley win a long engagement with PAD but you might lose too if we look at the past especially if proper tacticsare not employed , training, pilot shortage and spare shortage is not addressed

If you think it through, you will find most of your points are contradicted by international experience and by consensus elsewhere. This is not to undermine a very fine body of men (and women), perhaps the best of the Pakistan military services, but it is fact. Let me start from the back:

1. Spares shortage: a Pakistani problem, more aggravated than ours. For instance, recall the scenario at the time of Kargil. We have it on the evidence of a very highly respected Pakistani commentator, who retired with general rank, that the unwarned and unaware PAF was running dangerously short of spares, and took a cold-blooded decision to abstain. For this, that service paid a heavy price when Musharraf came to power.
2. Pilot shortage: you have the advantage, both in terms of your young people jamming the gates of recruitment centres, and the occasional shortages that we face.
3. Training: PAF is renowned the world over due to the path-breaking work of those larger than life icons, Asghar Khan and Nur Khan. You are singularly lucky to have had TWO such heroes, one immediately after the other. HOWEVER, please do remember that Indian pilots have given as good as they got, after 1965, which was undoubtedly the day of the PAF, and please also remember that their high standards continue to be maintained, both individually and collectively, if international exercises give any indication.
4. Proper tactics: Worked in 65, didn't in 71, hasn't ever since, simply because the early advantage that you had, of having the world's best planes, slowly died out. Some Pakistani pilots were of the opinion that the Hunter was as good as, perhaps even better than the Sabre; others were unimpressed by the Starfighter; all of them used their MiG 21 Chinese re-builds very well, according to all reports; but after that, it has been a fight with their backs to the wall to keep up.

I think that the difference between a multi-role light fighter and a designed for the job air superiority fighter is too big to be bridged by better piloting, and that the PAF really will have difficulties in case of war. It has a window while we address the horrible state in which the Congress left our military, but that is about it.

We are not discussing the Chinese, the PLAAF, here; they are admittedly in a position to overwhelm the IAF by sheer numbers. All in all, I would say that a prudent commander of your Air Force should be investing massively in SAMs, and particularly in the S-400. I hope that makes my sense clear without being jingoistic about it.

 

[randomradio]

The basic contradiction is that the IAF want to buy a lot of the best, and that does not include the Tejas, which, according to them, is not proven; the ministry wants to spend the least. So:

1. The IAF doesn't get to buy the numbers it wants;
2. The ministry has to buy so few that it cannot ask for a transfer of technology;
3. We land up having to buy more anyway.

Pathetic.

Neither side in this internal fight realises that building up a log-jam has an effect on replacements of old equipment; the numbers needed to be replaced mean trouble. Either one spends gazillions trying to buy all the numbers at the market prices or even at negotiated prices, or one leaves gaps in inventory, dangerous gaps, for decades at a time.

The real culprits are the Congress-led UPA2, as it totally failed to procure artillery for Army, tanks, anti-tank guided missiles, attack helicopters, infantry fighting vehicles, or at least, armoured personnel carrier; or submarines, corvettes and smaller vessels, amphibious and personnel carrying craft, helicopter carriers, regular aircraft carriers, and, of course, the fighter aircraft for the Air Force, or the unglamourous but critically necessary AWACS.....

There's no truth to that. IAF is interested in LCA and now they are interested in 3 more squadrons after the current order.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There's no truth to that. IAF is interested in LCA and now they are interested in 3 more squadrons after the current order.

Let us hope they do that. It's a brilliant little plane.

 

[randomradio]

Let us hope they do that. It's a brilliant little plane.

Now they only have to wait for ADA to deliver in time and at spec.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Now they only have to wait for ADA to deliver in time and at spec.

?

What would ADA be delivering?

 

[randomradio]

?

What would ADA be delivering?

The aircraft's FOC. Followed by the development of Mk2.

 

[ziaulislam]

There's no truth to that. IAF is interested in LCA and now they are interested in 3 more squadrons after the current order.

IAF is on record that it will not accept these. If IAF at end do accept tejas it will be under govt pressure

 

[randomradio]

IAF is on record that it will not accept these. If IAF at end do accept tejas it will be under govt pressure

What are you talking about? IAF never said that, IN did. LCA is not made for carrier ops.

IAF is buying 6 squadrons of Mk1/Mk1A followed by 3 squadrons of Mk2. That's about 180 aircraft in all. More or less in the same region as Thunder.

 

[ziaulislam]

What are you talking about? IAF never said that, IN did. LCA is not made for carrier ops.

IAF is buying 6 squadrons of Mk1/Mk1A followed by 3 squadrons of Mk2. That's about 180 aircraft in all. More or less in the same region as Thunder.

wow you woke up today...
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

 

[Han Patriot]

wow you woke up today...
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

They will never admit it. Trust me...to them this gen 3+ plane is the bestest plane on earth. The only reason IAF is buying some is because they were shoved down their throats.

 

[randomradio]

wow you woke up today...
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

The article doesn't say anything about not inducting Tejas, they are making a case for inducting another single engine fighter apart from Tejas.

Not to mention, all of the comparison is only between the Mk1 design at its worst and Gripen and F-16 at their best.

Even after saying all that, the IAF is still interested in as many as 180 Tejas.

They will never admit it. Trust me...to them this gen 3+ plane is the bestest plane on earth. The only reason IAF is buying some is because they were shoved down their throats.

Hardly true. Nothing's being shoved down their throat. They have created hurdles for the aircraft and it must cross those hurdles before the Tejas is inducted. If the Tejas crosses those hurdles, it will be as good as any other contemporary western 4.5th gen aircraft.

After having seen the progress of Tejas, the IAF is likely going to shift their gaze towards Rafale again, rather than Gripen.

 

[Trango Towers]

Here is how I read the article.

Tejas started in 1980 ---- 37 years ago
Had sanction so delayed --- what santions
New squadron initiated with 3 aircraft.....lol
Indian air force has only order 40. Because it doenst want this aircraft?
123 aircraft will make up 6 squadrons....20.5 aircraft per squadron. How did the .5 aircraft work???
36 rafaels bought for €7.87bln No tech transfer but didn't but 130+ for €10bin withtech transfer. Crazy or what?
Now solution is to put out another tender for 100 plus aircraft to be made in India that may take another decade.
Currently 33 squadrons when 42 are minimun required and if mig 21 and 27 are retired down to 25.
In a fight I would back PAF without hesitation
We love make in India

 

[Gurjot.S]

IAF is on record that it will not accept these. If IAF at end do accept tejas it will be under govt pressure

Show me where IAF said so. The article you quoted names no IAF personnel saying so.
These are just rumors.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

wow you woke up today...
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

This article is pure bullshit.

The IAF has also said Tejas needs 20 hours of serving for every hour of flying as against six hours for Gripen and 3.5 hours for F-16.

Six man hours for gripen AND 3.5 hours for F-16??????? WTF?
Grippen is known to be extremely maintenance friendly and requires 10 hours of maintenance for each hour in the sky.
F-16 3.5? Thats beyond belief!
If a fighter takes less than 10 hours then it is god sent. F-16? More like 15 -16 hours,