Why dont we develop millitary ties with Russia?

[Awaaz]

My bad, about the Islamic rule of South Asia comment. You are right, it wasnt said here, but those are the comments coming from some rouge elements in Pakistan. You might have an idea who I am talking about.

About rest of your 'comments' - do you even know what you are trying to say here? Atleast try to put forth coherent points, it looks like a huge typo!

Hey Mods, this is off topic but very important so please excuse me here...

An open question...how many of you Pakistanis here have really met an Indian f2f?
All I see here is blind hatred for anything Indian, why is that so? This is an open question to you all, mods included, How many of you have met other desis f2f? And what were your experiences? FYI desis includes all south asians....
Mods..why dont you start a thread on this, about experiences of desis meeting other desis f2f. I want to know what your experiences are...and I will share mine. You might really be surprised!

Look this is a pakistani forum, why dont you hop along, i thought we got rid of you guys in 47.

 

[hanmya]

Look this is a pakistani forum, why dont you hop along, i thought we got rid of you guys in 47.

Is this all you can do? Dont you have anything worthwhile to say here?

Please post some pointers on the topic.

 

[Awaaz]

Is this all you can do? Dont you have anything worthwhile to say here?

Please post some pointers on the topic.

Pointless debating with an indian, nothing in common nothing to discuss nor debate.

 

[Super Falcon]

why russsia coalobarte with pak because now indians who are best friends of russia and enjoyed russian armory for 40 years now indians moved towards too russian all time great enemy american and now indians buy d its haddware from usa not russua even if they only buy in smalll quantity and russian economy revolves around its arms sells so russian has to sell its weapons to others to reduce the lose

 

[Moscow]

why russsia coalobarte with pak because now indians who are best friends of russia and enjoyed russian armory for 40 years now indians moved towards too russian all time great enemy american and now indians buy d its haddware from usa not russua even if they only buy in smalll quantity and russian economy revolves around its arms sells so russian has to sell its weapons to others to reduce the lose

sir i am no expert on russian economy but russia is too big a country to depend on its weapon sales for its economy,you might forget to mention the huge resources of oil,gas ,coal.wood and other natural resources they posses

the money gained in selling weapons is involved in r&d and to develop new weapns and technology. sir this is a particular question to you just imagine,russia is willing to co-operate with pakistan in defence sector fine how much money can pakistan afford to spend? once russia sells top weapons to pakistn the indian market is more or less gone ,can pakistan replace india in the amount of defence purchases?
imagine russia willing to sell you su-35 how many can pakistan buy.30-40,80 not more for sure. now for yourself compare it to the indian spending
240-su30mki
admiral gorshkov
akula class and boria class nuclear submarine
50% of whole pakfa development program
16 mig 29 s option to buy 54
choppers 80-200
GLONASS spending
50% of brahmos spending
proposal for almost 1000 t-90 tanks
joint development 50-50 of tactical transport aircraft.
new tank development program.

and unlimited ammunitions so you can very well see that till 2020 the productio line is full so russia need no scare about india moving to the us camp it cannot supply any more weapons to india quickly. even if the future defence orders are reduced by half its still much more.
so if pakistan wants to develop good relations with russia it must start slowly with trade and diplomatic then culture and human resource then weapons and ammunitions and not the other way around.
thanx

 

[hanmya]

sir i am no expert on russian economy but russia is too big a country to depend on its weapon sales for its economy,you might forget to mention the huge resources of oil,gas ,coal.wood and other natural resources they posses

the money gained in selling weapons is involved in r&d and to develop new weapns and technology. sir this is a particular question to you just imagine,russia is willing to co-operate with pakistan in defence sector fine how much money can pakistan afford to spend? once russia sells top weapons to pakistn the indian market is more or less gone ,can pakistan replace india in the amount of defence purchases?
imagine russia willing to sell you su-35 how many can pakistan buy.30-40,80 not more for sure. now for yourself compare it to the indian spending
240-su30mki
admiral gorshkov
akula class and boria class nuclear submarine
50% of whole pakfa development program
16 mig 29 s option to buy 54
choppers 80-200
GLONASS spending
50% of brahmos spending
proposal for almost 1000 t-90 tanks
joint development 50-50 of tactical transport aircraft.
new tank development program.

and unlimited ammunitions so you can very well see that till 2020 the productio line is full so russia need no scare about india moving to the us camp it cannot supply any more weapons to india quickly. even if the future defence orders are reduced by half its still much more.
so if pakistan wants to develop good relations with russia it must start slowly with trade and diplomatic then culture and human resource then weapons and ammunitions and not the other way around.
thanx

Very nicely put. Not to mention the friendly ties set up over decades of trade and cultural relationships!

 

[jupiter2007]

Russia and Pakistan need each other, Pakistani goods (exports) need access to Russian market. Both Russia and China need pakistan due to Pakistan's strategic location.

 

[Moscow]

Russia and Pakistan need each other, Pakistani goods (exports) need access to Russian market. Both Russia and China need pakistan due to Pakistan's strategic location.

sir its true all of them need each other but how can pakistan's strategic location be of any russian help.?can you please elaborate on this please?

thanx

 

[phoenixbian]

What russia need from subcontinet is only economic benefit.In fact,he can get more profit from the trade with India than Pakistan.So because of indian's opposition,russia would not trade with pakistan directly.
But it doesn't mean pakistan can not develop military ties with russia.Russian can make deal with pakistan via china.For example, JF-17.Russia is very willing to make money from both india and pakistan.And india cannot intervene in chinese deal with russia.

 

[paritosh]

sir even though russia is ready to offer pakistan the sukhoi -35 which is a 4++ generation fighter how many can pakistan afford to buy at this point. its not cheap, lets say even though pakistan orders a few it cannot match the indian order of 230 su-30mki so how do you think russia will gamble to sell planes to pakistan where there is a risk of losing the indian market.


moreover india developing military ties with us is always welcome,the real truth is india is involved with a lot of joint ventures with russia any high level US tech falling into the indias hands is as good as falling into russias hand.
moreover the production line for russians arms for indias market is full till 2017 it cannot supply india with more weapons till then.every month it is supplying india with either planes,choppers,tanks,ammunitions,subs it cannot increase the production any more that is why there is always a delay in supply.

moreover your point is true regarding ukraine pakistan started developing ties with ukraine, how do you think russia should react?

precisely.
we indians have formally never 'aligned' with any military block...be it the NATO or the wrsaw pact.the nehru govt was light years ahead in ti's vision when they spear-headed the NAM...it was a trick though...as all know we naturally sided with the soviets and the russians.and we are coming closer to the americans as we officially are non-aligned...it is symbiotic..the american and indian interest that is...we got the nuclear deal and the waiver from the NSg...and as soon as that happend we shifted back to our real natural ally the russians...india and russia signed a nuclear supply deal.
the americans view china as a growing threat..and with the russian economy growing...they have more problems....they want to use us as a counter-weight to china...india now enjoys good relations with china...so the american ploy wont work after a point in time...
as far as pakistan is concerned...developing relations would be problematic..as:
A)money talks...we spend more money in buying Russian arms...than pakistan ever will...even if the MRCA goes in favour of the americans...the russians would still reieve billions in annual defence deals...as they always had.
B)pakistan supports the chechen movement.whereas india supported the russians even when they invaded afghanistan...
C)your billion dollar 'Aid' would be affected if you go with the 'ruskies'
D)china would not appreciate it's defence market in pakistan to go to rusia...you'd face problems with china too...
E)ukraine angle...who'd look after your T-80Uds?...the ukraininans would not be happy...

pakistan can have smaller deals with russia but there cant be any
full-fledged deals anytime soon...so i think you'd have to stick to china...
.

 

[phoenixbian]

By the way ,as to 240 su-30mki, I think it is a very stupid deal to India.Russian make much money from the deal,meanwhile,russian also test their new plane via indian.But indian get few from the deal.After spending much money and time,india still cann't produce su-30mki by theirself so far.What's worse,su-30mki isn't a mature battleplan,though it's very advanced according to its statistics.Obviously,Russian use su-30mki to accumulate experience for producing their 5-generation plane.and indian become russian's white ***.

 

[batmannow]

sir i am no expert on russian economy but russia is too big a country to depend on its weapon sales for its economy,you might forget to mention the huge resources of oil,gas ,coal.wood and other natural resources they posses

the money gained in selling weapons is involved in r&d and to develop new weapns and technology. sir this is a particular question to you just imagine,russia is willing to co-operate with pakistan in defence sector fine how much money can pakistan afford to spend? once russia sells top weapons to pakistn the indian market is more or less gone ,can pakistan replace india in the amount of defence purchases?
imagine russia willing to sell you su-35 how many can pakistan buy.30-40,80 not more for sure. now for yourself compare it to the indian spending
240-su30mki
admiral gorshkov
akula class and boria class nuclear submarine
50% of whole pakfa development program
16 mig 29 s option to buy 54
choppers 80-200
GLONASS spending
50% of brahmos spending
proposal for almost 1000 t-90 tanks
joint development 50-50 of tactical transport aircraft.
new tank development program.

and unlimited ammunitions so you can very well see that till 2020 the productio line is full so russia need no scare about india moving to the us camp it cannot supply any more weapons to india quickly. even if the future defence orders are reduced by half its still much more.
so if pakistan wants to develop good relations with russia it must start slowly with trade and diplomatic then culture and human resource then weapons and ammunitions and not the other way around.
thanx

moscow;sir
plz take into your, consideration , the fact of "INTERSTS"!
what if pakistan & russia,find themselves on the same page of world affairs?
what if india, put itselves into the so -called"US missile deffence shield"?

i guss, countries relations mostly depends on the affairs, what they were facing in present!
so maybe , russia can find a trusted friend inside "islamic world", also i think its a possibility that PAKISTAN, IRAN, AFGHANISTAN, CHINA, RUSSIA.. can found many common grounds, in the world politics, & i really hope m,they can make some kind of a "super asian block"

 

[Moscow]

By the way ,as to 240 su-30mki, I think it is a very stupid deal to India.Russian make much money from the deal,meanwhile,russian also test their new plane via indian.But indian get few from the deal.After spending much money and time,india still cann't produce su-30mki by theirself so far.What's worse,su-30mki isn't a mature battleplan,though it's very advanced according to its statistics.Obviously,Russian use su-30mki to accumulate experience for producing their 5-generation plane.and indian become russian's white ***.

no offence to you sir but you need to do some more research on this.
240 su30mki deal is stupid for india in which way?the time this deal was done india did not have the option to buy high tech western aircraft but the rusians offere them the best they had obiviously you have to pay for the best.
40 mki were provided from russian firms rest were built in india thats the real truth.
su30mki isnt mature ok so which one would be more mature can you please
specify.and b thewaywhy did china oder the su30mk2?
yes you talk about 5-gen plane whih one is itif its pakfa then its a joint project.also the 5th gen tech are tested on the su35 and not on su30mki
get more info on the military news section " russia starts work on 2nd 5th gen plane."

moreover the thread is about pakistan developing military ties with russia and not what india has done or will be doing.

i am not justifying the indian actions but please post the original facts instead of incorrect information.

thanx

 

[Amanpuneet Singh]

I don't think in present scenario Pakistan require Russia that much because all the weapons that Russia made china can copy them and make them little more better according to their needs and sell to Pakistan at cheaper rates except from UN vote addition Russia wont make much difference as Russia don't import much from outside world and the things they import they can get from china at cheaper rates at this stage i think china is only 5-10 years behind Russia.Pakistan buys all the petroleum products from middle east but still there is no harm in making friends,yes many will say china only copies lack innovation but copying is also art not many countries can do it and world economy works on Chinese innovation little thing called paper currency.

 

[Moscow]

moscow;sir
plz take into your, consideration , the fact of "INTERSTS"!
what if pakistan & russia,find themselves on the same page of world affairs?
what if india, put itselves into the so -called"US missile deffence shield"?

i guss, countries relations mostly depends on the affairs, what they were facing in present!
so maybe , russia can find a trusted friend inside "islamic world", also i think its a possibility that PAKISTAN, IRAN, AFGHANISTAN, CHINA, RUSSIA.. can found many common grounds, in the world politics, & i really hope m,they can make some kind of a "super asian block"

sir i respect your opinion and you are right that a country's interests are supreme.
yes its important to balance the relationship in modern world.
yes just look at the case related to the sale of jf-17 engines where russia acted even though the indians protested.
russia already has good relations with IRAN, CHINA and the other islamic world
but you cannot ignore the india equation it would take a drastic change i foreign policy. altough india has become close to the us in recent times but still you can find the deep involvement of the russians and indians in every sphere ,space,military,IT,intelligence,cultural.
look for example the US helped india to get the nuclear deal but soon they agreed to buy fuel from the french and russians

the best option according to me would be that pakistan can start joining russia independently in the world forum and support it to get the confidence between the two on track first.
thanks