Why David Cameron apologising for Raj won’t mean much to India

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer Sometimes its so tempting to act like a tool.

Anonymity of forum give the chance which I can't have in real life as I have to be good person throughout

Personally, I don't care if they apologize or not. For me, the important thing is that I have to apologize for every hungry, uneducated and oppressed citizen of India and not mere lip service but doing something for them.

Dwelling in past is something I don't like, just making a casual post in this thread.

Oh, I know that feeling! Brother, do I know that feeling! Every now and then, faced with a totally brain-free ignoramus, I get that rush of blood to the head, and the irresistible urge to 'act like a tool', to borrow your pungent phrase.

I was amused to see your frustrated reaction to the latest 50 cent brigade, pointing to temples. There is nothing to be done for these flipping morons who don't bother to read or to learn before displaying the vast expanses of why they don't know.

 

[A1Kaid]

I don't know what you guys think but I think it would be pretty cool if in the future Pakistani army or both Pakistani army and Indian army had conquered Britain just as Britain had conquered India, and both Pakistani army and Indian army soldiers marching down 10 Downing Street and in front of Buckingham Palace.

If you think this is crazy, just know before the British Raj had you told someone a small country in north western Europe would travel thousands of miles across the world and subjugate and conquer a land 10x+ larger and defeat various kingdoms and armies of Indian subcontinent.

 

[KRAIT]

Oh, I know that feeling! Brother, do I know that feeling! Every now and then, faced with a totally brain-free ignoramus, I get that rush of blood to the head, and the irresistible urge to 'act like a tool', to borrow your pungent phrase.
I was amused to see your frustrated reaction to the latest 50 cent brigade, pointing to temples. There is nothing to be done for these flipping morons who don't bother to read or to learn before displaying the vast expanses of why they don't know.

Actually that temple story was a joke propagated among friends. It was like Queen Elizabeth saying " Damn, we Missed it. "I don't discriminate between Indian, Pakistanis, Chinese or American morons. Its a global phenomenon and ironically, I have to deal with such people every now and then. World is full of it. Have to keep the knife sharp.

For instance, a parent wanted his son to be accommodated with other guy from his same caste in Hostel in same room. Thankfully to my experience of dealing with such morons, I shut him up.

Everything comes in handy, all it needs is opportunity. You know very well than me.

 

[RIMPAC]

Oh, I know that feeling! Brother, do I know that feeling! Every now and then, faced with a totally brain-free ignoramus, I get that rush of blood to the head, and the irresistible urge to 'act like a tool', to borrow your pungent phrase.

I was amused to see your frustrated reaction to the latest 50 cent brigade, pointing to temples. There is nothing to be done for these flipping morons who don't bother to read or to learn before displaying the vast expanses of why they don't know.

Interesting you insult me as a '50 cent' while I legitimately question indian history. You have yet to counter my views as they are the accepted views globally.
You just don't like hearing the truth.

What I forgot to mention was that despite Britain getting rid of many bad traits of India, it couldnt get rid of the caste system.

 

[A1Kaid]

Oh, I know that feeling! Brother, do I know that feeling! Every now and then, faced with a totally brain-free ignoramus, I get that rush of blood to the head, and the irresistible urge to 'act like a tool', to borrow your pungent phrase.

I was amused to see your frustrated reaction to the latest 50 cent brigade, pointing to temples. There is nothing to be done for these flipping morons who don't bother to read or to learn before displaying the vast expanses of why they don't know.

If you had to quantify the amount how much in dollar terms how much do you think the British looted from the Indian subcontinent? Of course somethings are hard to put a value on but do you have an estimate of the total monetary value of what they looted?

 

[Srinivas]

You're an idiot. I'm guessing the Hans also were glad to be invaded by the Mongols and Manchus?

There is a no pure race called Hans they married other groups (they call them minorities but they are in considerable number) and became multi ethnic.

You are arguing with a troll who thinks SU 30 MKI do not have thrust vectoring

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Indians need to stop getting so emotional. All I said was Britain kept India happy for centuries which is why Indians didn't revolt. If Indians didn't like it, you would have revolted much earlier. India liked what Britain was giving you.
That's all I said.

India didn't mind being part of the british empire.

Where are you getting your info from?? That Indians were happy to be ruled?? Were Hans happy to be invaded?

Anglo-Mysore Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Second Anglo-Mysore War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Third Anglo-Mysore War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fourth Anglo-Mysore War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Second Anglo-Sikh War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First Anglo-Maratha War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Second Anglo-Maratha War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Third Anglo-Maratha War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then when the British raj was being formed these factions rebelled all over India

Indian Rebellion of 1857 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then 85 or so many years later Indian national army rebels were fighting with Japan and Germany and Gandhi's non-violent movement was active.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you had to quantify the amount how much in dollar terms how much do you think the British looted from the Indian subcontinent? Of course somethings are hard to put a value on but do you have an estimate of the total monetary value of what they looted?

In fact, as I mentioned to the drive-by scholar, there is an entire body of work devoted to this, starting with R. C. Dutt. I am not in touch with the latest on the subject, but since you've asked, could I take a couple of days to get back to you? Calcutta is shut down for the day, btw, perhaps for two days (nobody knows), so the request for time.

If you had to quantify the amount how much in dollar terms how much do you think the British looted from the Indian subcontinent? Of course somethings are hard to put a value on but do you have an estimate of the total monetary value of what they looted?

A quick, non-quantitative response:

[edit]Economic impact of British imperialism
Debate continues about the economic impact of British imperialism on India. The issue was actually raised by conservative British politician Edmund Burke who in the 1780s vehemently attacked the East India Company, claiming that Warren Hastings and other top officials had ruined the Indian economy and society. Indian historian Rajat Kanta Ray (1998) continues this line of reasoning, saying the new economy brought by the British in the 18th century was a form of plunder and a catastrophe for the traditional economy of Mughal India. (Economic Drain Theory) Ray believes that British depleted the food and money stocks and imposed high taxes that helped cause the terrible famine of 1770, which killed a third of the people of Bengal.[45]
P. J. Marshall, a British historian known for his work on the British empire, has a reinterpretation of the view that the prosperity of the formerly being Mughal rule gave way to poverty and anarchy. Marshall argues the British takeover did not make any sharp break with the past. British control was delegated largely through regional rulers and was sustained by a generally prosperous economy for the rest of the 18th century, except the frequent famines with very high fatality rate(Famine in India). Marshall notes the British raised revenue through local tax administrators and kept the old Mughal rates of taxation. Instead of the Indian nationalist account of the British as alien aggressors, seizing power by brute force and impoverishing all of India, Marshall presents a British nationalist interpretation in which the British were not in full control but instead were controllers in what was primarily an Indian play and in which their ability to keep power depended upon excellent cooperation with Indian elites. Marshall admits that much of his interpretation is still rejected by many historians.[46]

 

[A1Kaid]

In fact, as I mentioned to the drive-by scholar, there is an entire body of work devoted to this, starting with R. C. Dutt. I am not in touch with the latest on the subject, but since you've asked, could I take a couple of days to get back to you? Calcutta is shut down for the day, btw, perhaps for two days (nobody knows), so the request for time.

I really appreciate you taking the time to research.

Here's something I came across earlier.

Just as grain was sucked out of Ireland at the height of its great famine, so Britain continued to drain India of food during its catastrophic hungers. In Late Victorian Holocausts, Mike Davis shows that between 1876 and 1877 wheat exports to the UK from India doubled as subsistence there collapsed, and several million died of starvation. In the North-Western provinces famine was wholly engineered by British policy, as good harvests were exported to offset poor English production in 1876 and 1877.

A quick, non-quantitative response:

For 300 years Britain has outsourced mayhem. Finally it's coming home | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian


The British engineered famine in the Indian subcontinent killing millions of people by starvation. Countless spices, wheat, rice, fruits, vegetables, tea, plants, medicine, gold, silver, jewelry, diamonds, minerals, and more were looted. Looting of Indian subcontinent relieved British bank on it's deficits.


They engineered famine killing millions with starvation, and point their fingers at dictators around the world for being "oppressive". Yet they are the civilized ones.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Interesting you insult me as a '50 cent' while I legitimately question indian history. You have yet to counter my views as they are the accepted views globally.
You just don't like hearing the truth.

What I forgot to mention was that despite Britain getting rid of many bad traits of India, it couldnt get rid of the caste system.

You do not legitimately question Indian history, for two reasons. First, it is not legitimate when it is not based on fact, or on authority. These are just random views that you have picked up, and there is no need for anyone to waste time on them. Second, neither you nor anyone else can 'question' Indian history, as the actual events of the past cannot be questioned. Having happened, they are there. Views of such histories, interpretations of the facts can be questioned. But no doubt that is too subtle for you to bother with, in your haste to make an impression, any impression, even a ridiculous one.

Neither I nor anyone else has to accept your views. They don't matter. Your unilateral assertion that these are global views are even more ridiculous. So all that you have achieved is some light diversion and some irritation among those who take you and your sort seriously. You would be in a position to gauge whether or not we like or dislike hearing the truth if you knew for yourself what the truth is. Not knowing it, to assert that what you have picked up is the truth, and that not liking to hear your version is equal to not liking the truth, again exposes you to ridicule. Not just you, but by unfair but inevitable extrapolation, those whom you seem to represent.

Again, not being very good on the subject, you have missed the current trend of analysis that the British may have sharpened and harshened the caste system, from its original form of broad tolerances to a form of sharp differences which have been codified and straitjacketed due to the pressure of the British administrative and legal systems.

But your stupidity seems boundless, so this comes as no surprise.

 

[Spring Onion]

pardon me for a quick question

who will apologise for Muslim Raj? as Cameron did for British Raj


and on a flipside the British Raj has also given nice infrastructure and above all education to India specially in TN .

what you say ?

 

[kawaraj]

Any apology, to carry any weight of conviction, cannot come from anyone else than the reigning monarch of the UK. Like she did recently during the Irish visit.

this old lady and his nation should apologize formerly to all people and their offsprings in this land for all the miserables and sufferings done by her ancestors and her country for the old days.

not just for a arm deal they want to exploit....

 

[Joe Shearer]

For 300 years Britain has outsourced mayhem. Finally it's coming home | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian


The British engineered famine in the Indian subcontinent killing millions of people by starvation. Countless spices, wheat, rice, fruits, vegetables, tea, plants, medicine, gold, silver, jewelry, diamonds, minerals, and more were looted. Looting of Indian subcontinent relieved British bank on it's deficits.


They engineered famine killing millions with starvation, and point their fingers at dictators around the world for being "oppressive". Yet they are the civilized ones.

Monbiot is a fairly recent and trenchant commentator, and not without merit, but I hope to get you stuff from a more academic set of sources.

 

[Spring Onion]

You do not legitimately question Indian history, for two reasons. First, it is not legitimate when it is not based on fact, or on authority. These are just random views that you have picked up, and there is no need for anyone to waste time on them. Second, neither you nor anyone else can 'question' Indian history, as the actual events of the past cannot be questioned. Having happened, they are there. Views of such histories, interpretations of the facts can be questioned. But no doubt that is too subtle for you to bother with, in your haste to make an impression, any impression, even a ridiculous one.

Neither I nor anyone else has to accept your views. They don't matter. Your unilateral assertion that these are global views are even more ridiculous. So all that you have achieved is some light diversion and some irritation among those who take you and your sort seriously. You would be in a position to gauge whether or not we like or dislike hearing the truth if you knew for yourself what the truth is. Not knowing it, to assert that what you have picked up is the truth, and that not liking to hear your version is equal to not liking the truth, again exposes you to ridicule. Not just you, but by unfair but inevitable extrapolation, those whom you seem to represent.

Again, not being very good on the subject, you have missed the current trend of analysis that the British may have sharpened and harshened the caste system, from its original form of broad tolerances to a form of sharp differences which have been codified and straitjacketed due to the pressure of the British administrative and legal systems.

But your stupidity seems boundless, so this comes as no surprise.

History can not be actual 100%. thats where everyone agrees.

this old lady and his nation should apologize formerly to all people and their offsprings in this land for all the miserables and sufferings done by her ancestors and her country for the old days.

not just for a arm deal they want to exploit....

i think you should apologise to yourself for inviting them and getting benefits from them for weakning your own land.

 

[A1Kaid]

"India in the 18th century was the biggest exporter of manufactured goods".

A third of the world's GDP in the 18th century was generated by the Mughal Empire.


When the British took over Indian subcontinent they ruined the industrial base of the IS and turned the IS into a cripple weak land one who was no longer independent.