Why Are Poverty Rates in Pakistan Lower Than India, Bangladesh?

[surya kiran]

Here are some key points about the low status of Indian women in Superfreakonomics:

1. If women could choose their birthplace, India might not be a wise choice of a place for any of them to be born.

2. In spite of recent economic success and euphoria about India, the people of India remain excruciatingly poor.

3. Literacy is low, and corruption is high in India.

4. Only half the Indian households have electricity, and fewer have running water.

5. Only one in 4 Indian homes has a toilet.

6. 40% of families with girls want to have more children, but families with boys do not want a baby girl.

7. It's especially unlucky to be born female, baby boy is like a 401 K retirement plan, baby girl requires a dowry fund.

8. Smile Train in Chennai did cleft repair surgery at no cost for poor children. A man was asked how many children he had. He said he had 1, a boy. It turned out that he also had 5 daughters which he did not mention.

9. Indian midwives in Tamil Nadu are paid $2.50 to kill girls with cleft deformity.

10. Girls are highly undervalued, there are 35 million fewer females than males, presumed dead, killed by midwife or parent or starved to death. Unltrasound are used mainly to find and destroy female fetuses. Ultrasound and abortion are available even in the smallest villages with no electricity or clean water.

11. If lucky enough not to be aborted, girls face inequality and cruelty at every turn because of low social status of Indian women.

12. 51% of Indian men say wife beating is justified, 54% women agree, especially when dinner is burned or they leave home without husband's permission.

13. High number of unwanted pregnancies, STDs, HIV infections happen to Indian women when 15% of the condoms fail. Indian Council of Medical Research found that 60% of Indian men's genitalia are too small to fit the condoms manufactured to international standard sizes.

14. Indian laws to protect women are widely ignored. The government has tried monetary rewards to keep baby girls and supported microfinance for women. NGO programs, smaller condoms, and other projects have had limited success.

Haq's Musings: Superfreakonomics on Status of Indian Women

F

Forget women. At a general level Pakistan is almost in the bottom 5 places to be born for ANYBODY. You want me to give you rankings and proof for this, Mr. Economist. Atleast, come with reasons where you do not get egg on your face

 

[M. Sarmad]

Oh and what you all call "Islamo-socialism" or Hazarat Umer's welfare state are all in fact marxist ideals

Innalillahi wa inna alihi rajion !!!



Please dont talk about things when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about !!!

you will realize that our society is drenched in marxist approach and policies.

Yes... if idealising welfare state of Hazrat umer is Marxism (as per your definition) , Then most of the muslims worldwide are marxists ...

May I ask you your age by the way ?

ONLY if you study, study, and study.

Yes brother , you surely need to follow this yourself

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
Yes... if idealising welfare state of Hazrat umer is Marxism (as per your definition) , Then most of the muslims worldwide are marxists ...

That's true. But before we proceed,

Let me see how much study have you done on this topic.

1. A welfare state needs a budget to support government run programs. Agreed?
2. Find out how many programs were run by Hazrat Umer's government
3. Number of citizens supported by such welfare programs
4. Total amount of funding in dollars or Ashrafis or coins needed to run such welfare system
5. Source of that funding


Please. Let's hear something concrete instead of some Arabic mumbo jumbo Astaghfrullis.


Thank you

 

[M. Sarmad]

That's true. But before we proceed,

First of all i request you to define "Marxism" before we proceed on to any further discussion on this topic

 

[FaujHistorian]

First of all i request you to define "Marxism" before we proceed on to any further discussion on this topic

Saary raat Yusaf Zulaikha ka Qissa suntay rahay, Subha poochtay hain, Zulaikha Mard this, keh aurat key khusra. hahahahahah.


Marxism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many of the modern day (post industrial era) economists have you studied?

Just curious.

Please do not say, you learned your economics from the mohllah masjid.

Thank you.


p.s. My questions re: Hazrat Umar welfare state still stand.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Saary raat Yusaf Zulaikha ka Qissa suntay rahay, Subha poochtay hain, Zulaikha Mard this, keh aurat key khusra. hahahahahah.

Please do not say, you learned your economics from the mohllah masjid

meray bhai no need to get frustrated ...

And as I know now that your source of information on socialism is Wikipedia only , I am not much surprised , Let me make it easier for you :

Marxism (as evident from the word itself) is a political and economic system(or approach) derived from theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, later developed by their followers

Please tell honestly if you ever had a chance to read either of them ? If yes , please explain what you understood from it

 

[FaujHistorian]

meray bhai no need to get frustrated ...

And as I know now that your source of information on socialism is Wikipedia only , I am not much surprised , Let me make it easier for you :

Marxism (as evident from the word itself) is a political and economic system(or approach) derived from theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, later developed by their followers

Please tell honestly if you ever had a chance to read either of them ?

I assume you have read Marx.

But I do not see your answers to my questions on this fairy-tail mumbo jumbo about welfare system of Hazrat Umer.

Just 5 questions meray bhai

Just 5


Can you answer any of these if not all?


Thank you



=================================

Let me see how much study have you done on this topic of welfare shellfare system of Hazrat Umer rah. .

1. A welfare state needs a budget to support government run programs. Agreed?
2. Find out how many programs were run by Hazrat Umer's government
3. Number of citizens supported by such welfare programs
4. Total amount of funding in dollars or Ashrafis or coins needed to run such welfare system
5. Source of that funding


Please. Let's hear something concrete instead of some Arabic mumbo jumbo Astaghfrullis.

 

[RiazHaq]

#Indian diplomat arrested in New York is Women's Rights Advocate. Paid Her Nanny Three Dollars An Hour

Women's Rights Advocate Paid Her Nanny Three Dollars An Hour #India

That's true. But before we proceed,

Let me see how much study have you done on this topic.

1. A welfare state needs a budget to support government run programs. Agreed?
2. Find out how many programs were run by Hazrat Umer's government
3. Number of citizens supported by such welfare programs
4. Total amount of funding in dollars or Ashrafis or coins needed to run such welfare system
5. Source of that funding


Please. Let's hear something concrete instead of some Arabic mumbo jumbo Astaghfrullis.


Thank you

Hazrat Umar's welfare program in Media is generally recognized as the first such program in the history of mankind. The money came from Bait-ul-Maal which was funded by zakat, jizya and maal-e-ghanimat ( the spoils of wars of conquest) undertaken in that period.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I assume you have read Marx.

Yes brother , And trust me that whoever has read him , and also knows about hazrat umer , will never try to make a comparison or relate their ideologies

In words of Karl Marx :

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions.

It is the opium of the people .

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.

The criticism of religion disillusions man, so that he will think, act, and fashion his reality like a man who has discarded his illusions and regained his senses, so that he will move around himself as his own true Sun. Religion is only the illusory Sun which revolves around man as long as he does not revolve around himself. "

And I think that I do not need to elaborate the ideology of Hazrat Umer ..

So in fact They work in total opposite directions ..

Marx and Engels saw socialism essentially in world terms: a global alternative to the system of global capitalism.

So In their own interpretation , Communism was a alternative to capitalism and religious conservatism ..

Marxism , as generally understood , is leninism in fact ... And interestingly lenin`s view contradict with those of Marx .. But that is a totally different discussion ...

Islamic socialism , unlike marxism , does not idealise a ultimate classless , wageless , and moneyless universal society

 

[FaujHistorian]

#Indian diplomat arrested in New York is Women's Rights Advocate. Paid Her Nanny Three Dollars An Hour

Women's Rights Advocate Paid Her Nanny Three Dollars An Hour #India



Hazrat Umar's welfare program in Media is generally recognized as the first such program in the history of mankind. The money came from Bait-ul-Maal which was funded by zakat, jizya and maal-e-ghanimat ( the spoils of wars of conquest) undertaken in that period.

Thanks Riaz bhai.

However my questions were very specific.

Your answers (like most other stories about Hazrat Umer) are very general.

And thus not applicable in real sense. but only meant to put kids to sleep at night.

As your able posts show, economy is a game of numbers.

like number of people in the system, number of dollars and Ashrafis spent on them

like the ratio between different income sources (zakat vs. Jizya vs. war-loot).


So please treat this subject as diligently as you treat economic discussion in your analysis.

Thank you.




p.s.

if you make a pie-chart for Hazrat Umer's budget, what is the percentage income from Zakat vs. jizya vs. war-looting.

Why I ask

Well,

War-booty or the loot from the war could have been 90% of the pie. In that case the whole system will crumble if there is no booty from yearly wars.

Similarly

if Jizya was let's say 60% of the pie, then the system will crumble if whole bunch of non-Muslims convert to Islam


Or

you must support your argument that zakat was 80% of the pie, then perhaps the system was stable over long period like 2 5 year budgets at least.


Please be serious as these are serious questions. Thank you.

.... knows about hazrat umer , will never try to make a comparison or relate their ideologies

Please use a pie chart if you can. See my reply to Riaz bhai.

Thank you

 

[M. Sarmad]

Please use a pie chart if you can. See my reply to Riaz bhai.
Thank you

Now what has that got to do with our disussion "Islamic socialism is marxism"(your original claim)???

We are comparing "ideologies" here ..

And asking for stats from the time of hazrat umer (to disprove something)is like asking the blood group of Alexander the great (to disprove Rh antigens)!!

 

[FaujHistorian]

....
And asking for stats from the time of hazrat umer is like asking the blood group of Alexander the great !!

I don't think your analogy is correct.

If we are discussing Alexander's wars and conquest,

you should be asking questions about his troop strength, his generals, number of divisions, cavalry vs. foot soldiers, vs. armored group.

you should be asking how he arranged his troops of different strengths on a particular battlefield.

Things like that.


Similarly when someone says Hazrat Umar invented the concept of welfare state (which by the way is untrue as tribal kings of his time did pretty much the same thing).

Then you must look for number of welfare programs, and their funding source(s).

Now what has that got to do with our disussion "Islamic socialism is marxism"(your original claim)???

We are comparing "ideologies" here .. )

Off course. comparing and contrasting ideologies is one way to learn our world. Do that and you may get enlightened.


peace

 

[RiazHaq]

Thanks Riaz bhai.

However my questions were very specific.

Your answers (like most other stories about Hazrat Umer) are very general.

And thus not applicable in real sense. but only meant to put kids to sleep at night.

As your able posts show, economy is a game of numbers.

like number of people in the system, number of dollars and Ashrafis spent on them

like the ratio between different income sources (zakat vs. Jizya vs. war-loot).


So please treat this subject as diligently as you treat economic discussion in your analysis.

Thank you.




p.s.

if you make a pie-chart for Hazrat Umer's budget, what is the percentage income from Zakat vs. jizya vs. war-looting.

Why I ask

Well,

War-booty or the loot from the war could have been 90% of the pie. In that case the whole system will crumble if there is no booty from yearly wars.

Similarly

if Jizya was let's say 60% of the pie, then the system will crumble if whole bunch of non-Muslims convert to Islam


Or

you must support your argument that zakat was 80% of the pie, then perhaps the system was stable over long period like 2 5 year budgets at least.


Please be serious as these are serious questions. Thank you.




Please use a pie chart if you can. See my reply to Riaz bhai.

Thank you

We are talking about the Medieval period when governance and economics were not as well developed as we know it today. The economic figures you are demanding did not exist until just a couple centuries ago anywhere in the world.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I don't think your analogy is correct.

Alexander was well known man , long dead , whose burial place is not known now ...
stats from the time of Hazrat Umer are not preserved , and cant be reproduced now...

So asking to provide something (as a proof)which is lost in history , does not win you a argument ..
hope you understand now that this was a analogy which had got nothing to do with "wars of Alexander" .. And if u still dont understand , then better leave it

Off course. comparing and contrasting ideologies is one way to learn our world. Do that and you may get enlightened.
peace

Same goes for you too brother ..
You should always know what you are saying ...
peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

We are talking about the Medieval period when governance and economics were not as well developed as we know it today. The economic figures you are demanding did not exist until just a couple centuries ago anywhere in the world.

If we can't support something with numbers, then we should not be repeating falsehood related to medieval period.

That's the point of me asking those hard and tough questions.

If we cannot prove with numbers the core of Hazrat Umer's welfare system, then we should not be making any claims about it.

Hope you understand.

When Pakistanis talk about welfare state, their underpinning is really marxist ideals covered with green Islamist cloth.

Because as you say, economic figures and even ideals are based on European philosophers like Marx

but

Pakistanis refuse to see the light and accept the reality.

Alexander was well known man , long dead , whose burial place is not known now ...
stats from the time of Hazrat Umer are not preserved , and cant be reproduced now...

So asking to provide something (as a proof)which is lost in history , does not win you a argument ..
hope you understand now that this was a analogy which had got nothing to do with "wars of Alexander" .. And if u still dont understand , then better leave it
e

you are now playing classic bait and switch.

As you could not prove and support Hazrat Umer's supposed welfare state

you throw in another false hood regarding Alexander's blood group.

then claim that Hazrat Umer's related lies, and Alexander's blood group related lies will make your argument as true.


hahahah