WHO'S KASHMIR HAPPY?

[Raj-Hindustani]

I know Kashmiri history more than your wikipedia copy paste. Even though events around instrument of accession are dubious but still it's no reason for india to claim Kashmir. Junagarh did the same with Pakistan.
Kashmiri Maharaja was not in legal position to do that when princely states standstill agreement was in place. Same is applied to Nizam & Junagarh states. 75 years of indian hypocrisy & lies need to end.

I didn't put any source to claim anything. Although I'm not sure the beating your pilot took in Kashmir counts.

Even it can be said for the king of Khanate of Kalat...

But, the simple truth is that more than 70% of Kashmiris choose to reside in either India or Pakistan. If a referendum were to be held in J&K, GB, or PAK Kashmir, the majority of people there would opt for an independent nation.

 

[mangochutney]

Azad kashmir is safer wealthier cleaner & free er than the rest of Pakistan

If only Pakistan was like azad kashmir

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Partially true.
As a Kashmiri myself my 2 cents down.
90% of Kashmiris want an Independent state (free from India, Pakistan, and China).
However,
If independence is not an option and asked to choose any country among the three mentioned above;
99.9% of AJK nationals will choose Pakistan.
75+% from the Indian-occupied territories will choose Pakistan.
China got no chance either way.

Again, it is not fair to the kashmiri people if 90% of Kashmiris want an Independent state.

It is a kind of hegemony of India and Pakistan, you need to stay with us or them, you don't have any other option.

Even if I were a Kashmiri, I would choose an independent state.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Again, it is not fair to the kashmiri people.

Even if I were a Kashmiri, I would select an independent state.

Kashmir has a Hindu ,Buddhist , Sikh , Shiya and Bakarwal population too and they would always vote in favour of India because everyone knows what would happen with minorities in an independent Islamic state

 

[TopGun786]

Again, it is not fair to the kashmiri people.

Even if I were a Kashmiri, I would select an independent state.

As I said 90% of Kashmiri people want an independent state. I am one of them also. But Pakistan and India will not let that happen (trust issues- One of these countries may invade again). Leaving China out of this discussion.
The most practical and win-win solution is an independent state, under temporary supervision from the UN, having good diplomatic and trade ties with both India and Pakistan.
Pakistan and India both can take benefits from its waters, electricity, and other natural resources and pay for the same. Meanwhile, Kashmir can import all the needed goodies from both.
But I know it is a fantasy. It is not gonna happen. the matter will only be settled after some nuclear war (if anyone survives).

 

[adelphi]

Even it can be said for the king of Khanate of Kalat...

But, the simple truth is that more than 70% of Kashmiris choose to reside in either India or Pakistan. If a referendum were to be held in J&K, GB, or PAK Kashmir, the majority of people there would opt for an independent nation.

Yes Khanate of Kalat had a jirga which voted for Pakistan. It wasn't done on Srinagar Airport just before fleeing. I'm all in for plebiscite though not sure your babu's in new delhi would like the idea.

 

[TopGun786]

Kashmir has a Hindu ,Buddhist , Sikh , Shiya and Bakarwal population too and they would always vote in favour of India because everyone knows what would happen with minorities in an independent Islamic state

Nothing will happen to them.
Plus we also have minorities (shia? They are Muslims btw) like Ahmadies in AJK plus a large number of nonmuslims in Gilgit Baltistan. They do not have any problem. Only Hindus will side with India. Sikh will be 50/50/

 

[my2cents]

I know Kashmiri history more than your wikipedia copy paste. Even though events around instrument of accession are dubious but still it's no reason for india to claim Kashmir. Junagarh did the same with Pakistan.
Kashmiri Maharaja was not in legal position to do that when princely states standstill agreement was in place. Same is applied to Nizam & Junagarh states. 75 years of indian hypocrisy & lies need to end.


I didn't put any source to claim anything. Although I'm not sure the beating your pilot took in Kashmir counts.

Junagarh was not contiguous with Pakistan and had majority hindu population but had Muslim king who aligned with Pakistan. By accepting Junagadh Pakistan defeated its two nation theory it was based on. So much hypocrisy just to grab power and land.
Show me a copy of Pakistan signed Stand still agreement. There is none because your intent was to force the issue by show of military power. British commander did not allow that because Maharaja wanted time. But Pakistan send the Kabali forces and irregulars to invade Kashmir because they were afraid of Maharaja may align with India.

 

[adelphi]

Kashmir has a Hindu ,Buddhist , Sikh , Shiya and Bakarwal population too and they would always vote in favour of India because everyone knows what would happen with minorities in an independent Islamic state

But I doubt it will be as bad for them as it had been for kashmiri muslims for last 75 years under a supposedly secular country.

 

[adelphi]

Junagarh was not contiguous with Pakistan and had majority hindu population but had Muslim king who aligned with Pakistan. By accepting Junagadh Pakistan defeated its two nation theory it was based on. So much hypocrisy just to grab power and land.
Show me a copy of Pakistan signed Stand still agreement. There is none because your intent was to force the issue by show of military power. British commander did not allow that because Maharaja wanted time. But Pakistan send the Kabali forces and irregulars to invade Kashmir because they were afraid of Maharaja may align with India.

Neither was East Pakistan. Being contiguous is no reason for indian or Pakistani claim. Jungarh is mere an example of indian hypocrisy. On one hand you justify it based on hindu majority while kashmiris don't get that right.
Pakistan didn't send any tribals. It was an uprising by locals initially against dogra genocide which was later joined by pashtun tribes influenced by religion.
Despite all above events still it does't justify indian claim. In the end it's about what Kashmiri's want not what Pakistan or india want to impose.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Yes Khanate of Kalat had a jirga which voted for Pakistan. It wasn't done on Srinagar Airport just before fleeing. I'm all in for plebiscite though not sure your babu's in new delhi would like the idea.

Sending the armed individuals to Jammu and Kashmir was a blunder made by Pakistan.

The Pakistani government at the time engaged in a depressing deed.

Learn about the three parties' Standstill agreement. The King of Kashmir would not have needed to fly jammu and sign the accession to India if Pakistan had not broken the deal after she signed it.

Jammu and Kashmir would be independent states in the present day.

As I said 90% of Kashmiri people want an independent state. I am one of them also. But Pakistan and India will not let that happen (trust issues- One of these countries may invade again). Leaving China out of this discussion.
The most practical and win-win solution is an independent state, under temporary supervision from the UN, having good diplomatic and trade ties with both India and Pakistan.
Pakistan and India both can take benefits from its waters, electricity, and other natural resources and pay for the same. Meanwhile, Kashmir can import all the needed goodies from both.
But I know it is a fantasy. It is not gonna happen. the matter will only be settled after some nuclear war (if anyone survives).

You are forgetting, there are jammu and ladakh areas.. Pakistan will have very few votes if you talk only between India and Pakistan.

Pakistan will get the vote from the majority of Kashmir areas.. Again, if you select the third option for Independent, the story will be very different.

 

[TopGun786]

Sending the armed individuals to Jammu and Kashmir was a blunder made by Pakistan.

The Pakistani government at the time engaged in a depressing deed.

Learn about the three parties' Standstill agreement. The King of Kashmir would not have needed to fly Kashmir and sign the accession to India if Pakistan had not broken the deal after she signed it.

Jammu and Kashmir would be independent states in the present day.



You are forgetting, there are jammu and ladakh areas.. Pakistan will have very few votes if you talk only between India and Pakistan.

Pakistan will get the vote from the majority of Kashmir areas.. Again, if you select the third option for Independent, the story will be very different.

Jammu was a Muslim-majority area deliberately converted to a Muslim minority area by India. Rest do not want to say anything about Ladakh. Perhaps India will get more votes from there but in that case, it will also go to Pakistan same as Jungarrh and Manawaridh etc.

Sending the armed individuals to Jammu and Kashmir was a blunder made by Pakistan.

It was done when many local Kashmiri were murdered by dogra raj and locals were the first to raise arms.

 

[adelphi]

Sending the armed individuals to Jammu and Kashmir was a blunder made by Pakistan.

The Pakistani government at the time engaged in a depressing deed.

Learn about the three parties' Standstill agreement. The King of Kashmir would not have needed to fly Kashmir and sign the accession to India if Pakistan had not broken the deal after she signed it.

That's a very pathetic excuse for indian kashmiri occupation. Your govt sided with genociding forces & you expect indivitual pashtun tribes to sit aside and watch dogra forces comit Kashmiri genocide?

you are forgetting, there are jammu and ladakh areas.. pakistan will bet very less vote if you talk only between India and Pakistan.

Pakistan will get the vote from the Kashmir areas.. Again, if you select the third option for Independent, the story will be very different.

As stated earlier do it. The earlier the better. Not a youtube PTV or Doordarshan voting.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Jammu was a Muslim-majority area deliberately converted to a Muslim minority area by India. Rest do not want to say anything about Ladakh. Perhaps India will get more votes from there but in that case, it will also go to Pakistan same as Jungarrh and Manawaridh etc.


It was done when many local Kashmiri were murdered by dogra raj and locals were the first to raise arms.

Hindu kings of Kashmir weren’t anti Muslim they had Muslim wives but what happened in jammu with Muslims was retaliation to what happened with hindus in Kashmir and it was done by locals of Jammu not the king
Hindus were only 20% of the population of Jammu but they were well prepared after what happened with in Kashmir with the minority Hindus

 

[Olympus81]

Jammu was muslim majority. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see what are the demographics now. Most of the Muslims in Jammu fled to Azad Kashmir and the remaining were massacred.

Some Kashmiri families were massacred by militants, and the remaining were asked to migrate to India by their very own PM, with the promise that he will sort out the militants.

Coming back to the topic, Azad Kashmir is more developed than most areas of Pakistan. Higher capita probably from the fact that incoming remittances from their families abroad. And has a thriving business environment.