Who will be Pakistan’s next Army Chief and Joint Chief of the military

[Jango]

At this point, I prefer someone with a radical vision rather than just 'experience' (which most of them have in spades).

Who is the onve with a radical vision, and what do you mean by that?

 

[R Wing]

Who is the onve with a radical vision, and what do you mean by that?

None.

Jango bhai, very simple.

The Army (with the ISI) acts as the very definition of the deep state. This means it can exceed its constitutional limits with little to no oversight or accountability. It can meddle in affairs far beyond its Constitutional limits and duties with essentially no consequences.

Now, this formidable capacity includes surveillance/eavesdropping, spec ops and covert action, etc. Essentially, everything you need (especially given the above) to totally cleanse our system. Baloch militants and even radical students go missing, right? Children of judges and politicians can too. The capability is there. The capacity is also there, though it could use some refining. Remember those bloggers who disappeared in a highly coordinated fashion with no trace of their existence till they were finally released (only to leave the country and criticize the army even more harshly; what a retarded op)?

But... the Army never considered our treasonous and treacherous politicians as enemies of the state or, at the very least, (economic) terrorists. Can 1,000 TTP bombers do the long-term institutional damage that N League's nepotism or PPP's corruption did? Not in a million years.

Let's quickly analyze the reasons given that the real terrorists (political parties) are not touched. It would be wrong, it would create some backlash, it would be unconstitutional, and - my personal favorite - "how can we do that?!"

Now let's analyze what happens when it's another citizen of Pakistan who happens to be a poor Baloch guy with limited economic opportunities and who gets sucked into RAW-backed/funded militant propaganda. He disappears. No Constitution. Nothing.

What happens when a COAS forces his own extension? A known criminal and potential Indian agent (Nawaz) is sprung out of jail in the same month that parliament is made to vote on the extension. N League, naturally, votes in favor, and Nawaz enjoys freedom in London. The judges, curiously and kindly, give the good general and the government a few months to create a provision to allow the extension to happen legally. Why didn't the SC extend such generosity to the government over the NCM? Hmmm....

The institution of the army incentivizes and rewards loyalty above all else. Loyalty not to what's right or moral necessarily, but simply to the CO specifically and chain of command generally. This is not abnormal, as most militaries operate this way out of necessity. Critical, analytical, and questioning minds are weeded out early on, as they naturally can't survive or stay in such a system.

Therefore, no such general exists in the system. There is no incentive in the system to radically improve Pakistan. In fact, if anything, the opposite incentive may be there: a strong, popular, honest PM may one day truly clip the army's wings, bring the ISI under control, end the power monopoly concentrated in the single seat of the COAS, and even readjust perks, privileges, and plots to reflect Pakistan's dire economic situation.

The problem is, this mentality slowly eats you up from the inside. DHA / Cantts (including Lahore Cantt, once spotlessly clean) is home to trash heaps and regular rule breaking (even by soldiers on bikes in uniform). A former COAS told me this December that it's simply "qualitative deterioration." Each newer lot seems to be so enamored by the positive upward mobility that the fauj offers that the getting-dirtier Lahore Cantt is still 10000x better than his village/town. For him, it's heaven. It's all good. What's the problem?

Therein lies the problem...

My 2c after working with and helping our forces and other orgs mentioned above for several years with a clearance

 

[Jango]

None.

Jango bhai, very simple.

The Army (with the ISI) acts as the very definition of the deep state. This means it can exceed its constitutional limits with little to no oversight or accountability. It can meddle in affairs far beyond its Constitutional limits and duties with essentially no consequences.

Now, this formidable capacity includes surveillance/eavesdropping, spec ops and covert action, etc. Essentially, everything you need (especially given the above) to totally cleanse our system. Baloch militants and even radical students go missing, right? Children of judges and politicians can too. The capability is there. The capacity is also there, though it could use some refining. Remember those bloggers who disappeared in a highly coordinated fashion with no trace of their existence till they were finally released (only to leave the country and criticize the army even more harshly; what a retarded op)?

But... the Army never considered our treasonous and treacherous politicians as enemies of the state or, at the very least, (economic) terrorists. Can 1,000 TTP bombers do the long-term institutional damage that N League's nepotism or PPP's corruption did? Not in a million years.

Let's quickly analyze the reasons given that the real terrorists (political parties) are not touched. It would be wrong, it would create some backlash, it would be unconstitutional, and - my personal favorite - "how can we do that?!"

Now let's analyze what happens when it's another citizen of Pakistan who happens to be a poor Baloch guy with limited economic opportunities and who gets sucked into RAW-backed/funded militant propaganda. He disappears. No Constitution. Nothing.

What happens when a COAS forces his own extension? A known criminal and potential Indian agent (Nawaz) is sprung out of jail in the same month that parliament is made to vote on the extension. N League, naturally, votes in favor, and Nawaz enjoys freedom in London. The judges, curiously and kindly, give the good general and the government a few months to create a provision to allow the extension to happen legally. Why didn't the SC extend such generosity to the government over the NCM? Hmmm....

The institution of the army incentivizes and rewards loyalty above all else. Loyalty not to what's right or moral necessarily, but simply to the CO specifically and chain of command generally. This is not abnormal, as most militaries operate this way out of necessity. Critical, analytical, and questioning minds are weeded out early on, as they naturally can't survive or stay in such a system.

Therefore, no such general exists in the system. There is no incentive in the system to radically improve Pakistan. In fact, if anything, the opposite incentive may be there: a strong, popular, honest PM may one day truly clip the army's wings, bring the ISI under control, end the power monopoly concentrated in the single seat of the COAS, and even readjust perks, privileges, and plots to reflect Pakistan's dire economic situation.

The problem is, this mentality slowly eats you up from the inside. DHA / Cantts (including Lahore Cantt, once spotlessly clean) is home to trash heaps and regular rule breaking (even by soldiers on bikes in uniform). A former COAS told me this December that it's simply "qualitative deterioration." Each newer lot seems to be so enamored by the positive upward mobility that the fauj offers that the getting-dirtier Lahore Cantt is still 10000x better than his village/town. For him, it's heaven. It's all good. What's the problem?

Therein lies the problem...

My 2c after working with and helping our forces and other orgs mentioned above for several years with a clearance

I will reply to this in a while...

 

[SaadH]

Lt. Gen Nadeem Anjum..dah

You mean that dude who moonlights as the creepy jagga haircut sporting B-grade villian in Punjabi films.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Well right now I can only say who is NOT going to be a COAS …

 

[ziaulislam]

You mean that dude who moonlights as the creepy jagga haircut sporting B-grade villian in Punjabi films.

مریم نواز کے لیے اس کے علاوہ اور کوئی قابل قبول نہیں ہے

 

[Falcon26]

General Bajwa.

COAS for life.

The whole crisis now engulfing PM Imran Khan was partly engineered to solicit another extension.

 

[Jango]

Let's quickly analyze the reasons given that the real terrorists (political parties) are not touched. It would be wrong, it would create some backlash, it would be unconstitutional, and - my personal favorite - "how can we do that?!"

You missed the main point...because they want to use these people as and when they see fit. Permanently dispatching them to the history books will make these political pawns useless in the future, whenever the need arises.

You always need something in the reserve tank, and that is what we see every time.

Therefore, no such general exists in the system. There is no incentive in the system to radically improve Pakistan. In fact, if anything, the opposite incentive may be there: a strong, popular, honest PM may one day truly clip the army's wings, bring the ISI under control, end the power monopoly concentrated in the single seat of the COAS, and even readjust perks, privileges, and plots to reflect Pakistan's dire economic situation.

The problem is, this mentality slowly eats you up from the inside. DHA / Cantts (including Lahore Cantt, once spotlessly clean) is home to trash heaps and regular rule breaking (even by soldiers on bikes in uniform). A former COAS told me this December that it's simply "qualitative deterioration." Each newer lot seems to be so enamored by the positive upward mobility that the fauj offers that the getting-dirtier Lahore Cantt is still 10000x better than his village/town. For him, it's heaven. It's all good. What's the problem?

Therein lies the problem...

My 2c after working with and helping our forces and other orgs mentioned above for several years with a clearance

I wrote a post a few days ago, where I said keh har koi banda apni dedh eent ki masjid bana kar khush hai. And this is a manifestation of that.

There is no incentive to improve the system because everyone is happy. The fauj, judges, politicians, and so on. As long as everyone gets a piece of the pie, all is well. Jab koi banda beech main akar thora masla karay, then we've got major problems.

Look at the COAS extension issue for example. If you actually read the rules and the laws, PTI and the government were completely in the right on the issue, there is actually no proper law governing the extension. But kyunkay pehle sab mamla isi tarah chal raha tha, to bas kaam chik kay rakho. Beech main aik banda agaya, who actually said keh hold on, what is the actual rule for this? To phir maslay agaye.

I just can't wrap my head around this. A letter comes from the US. US officials meet a horde of people, who they haven't met in 3 years. They meet Fazlu, and Maryam ffs, a woman who has been convicted, and is on bail, and is not even a member of the assembly or anything. They meet unknown MNA's and MPA's. They meet govt MNA's and ministers on a pretext, and then ask them questions like "What do you think of Bilawal as PM, what do you think of Fazl Ur Rehman, what do you think of a NCM movement, what do you think of your CM, you had a fight with him didn't you" and so on.

In what world is this not enough to raise a few eyebrows and warrant an investigation?

Ok, let's leave this aside as well.

You have a video of the son of a candidate distributing money for votes. No action taken. You have a defected member saying he got a N league ticket in return, nothing. You have all these things, and no action takes place. You have a presidential reference regarding the disqualification of MNA's, and nothing happens. It honestly makes you pull your hair out.

Is mulk ki jamhuriat ko democracy kehna aisa hi hai jaisay aap Ayesha Market ya Saddar say aik t-shirt lo aur usay kaho yeh Gucci hai. Is say behtar martial law hi laga do, at least they don't spit in your face by saying keh ham jamhuriat chala rahay hain. They admit it is a military rule. Aam admi kay liay it's totally the same. The only people who make a fuss are the media (because someone finally checks their false stories), and the politicians. Baki sab ko kuch fark nhn parta.

Bull-fckn-sh!t...that's what it is.

Excuse the language please.

Rant over now.

Also, if I were a betting man, I would bet a fair amount on the the fact that it was Gen Kayani that said that.

And back to the original question, who do you think would be the most suitable candidate for the post?

I might not be able to answer that question, but what I do know is that if PML comes to power, they'll pick the guy who they think is the most timid and controllable, only for that move to blow up in their face a year later.

 

[Maula Jatt]

مریم نواز کے لیے اس کے علاوہ اور کوئی قابل قبول نہیں ہے

I am sensing you don't like the man?
Want ik to be carried?

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

Who will be Pakistan’s next Army Chief and Joint Chief of the military​

January 27, 2022

General Qamar Javed Bajwa, Pakistan’s Army head, and Joint Chief General Nadeem Raza is set to retire in November. Imran Khan’s PTI-led government will have to choose the next Chief of Army Staff (COAS) and Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (CJCSC). While the Pandits have begun discussing the future of the country’s most powerful seat after Prime Minister Khan stated that he has not yet decided on any extension for General Bajwa.
The possible looking at the existing Corp Commanders can help us see some of the seniors and prospective contenders for the positions of COAS and CJCSC.


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Lt Gen. Sehr Shamshad Mirza

After the Army Chief and Joint Chiefs of Staff, he is the most senior lieutenant General. He is an officer of the Pakistan Army’s Sindh Regiment. So far, General Mirza has had a distinguished career. Lt. Gen. Sahir Shamshad Mirza is now serving as the X Corps’ Commander in Rawalpindi.

He was previously the Chief of General Staff at the Pakistan Army’s General Headquarters. Prior to his CGS assignment, he served as Adjutant General. Vice Chief of General Staff (A), Director General Military Operations, and General Officer Commanding at Dera Ismail Khan were among his previous positions. He led the 40th Infantry Division throughout his time at Military Operations.

Lt. Gen Azhar Abbas

General Abbas is the army’s 35th Chief of General Staff. After the army chief, the CGS is regarded as the most powerful position inside the army. The Directorates of Military Operations and Military Intelligence are responsible for operational and intelligence affairs at General Headquarters under the command of the CGS.

Abbas was commissioned into the Baloch Regiment’s 41st Battalion. He formerly held the positions of Commandant School of Infantry and Tactics in Quetta, Division Commander in Murre, Brigade Commander in the Operations Directorate, and Personal Secretary to General Raheel Sharif, the former Chief of Army Staff. Interestingly, five CGS have been named CJCSC thus far.

Lt. Gen Nouman Mahmood Raja

He is President of the National Defence University in Islamabad. He was previously the Corp Commander of Peshawar. In On 1987, General Raja was commissioned into an Infantry Battalion. He attended the Command and Staff College in Quetta, Egypt, as well as the Command and Staff College in Cairo and the National Defence University in Islamabad.

Brigade Major of an Infantry Brigade, Commanding Officer of an Infantry Regiment, Brigade Commander of two Infantry Brigades, Chief of Staff of a Corps, General Officer Commanding of an Infantry Division, Director General (Analysis), Directorate General ISI, Inspector General Communication & Information Technology Branch General Headquarters Rawalpindi, and Corps Commander of a Corps are among his various Command, Staff, and Instructional assignments.

Lt. Gen Faiz Hameed

At the moment, he is the Commander of the XI Corps in Peshawar. He served as the 24th Director-General of the Intelligence Agency ISI. He was commissioned in the Baloch Regiment. Previously, Faiz served as Adjutant General in Rawalpindi’s General Headquarters (GHQ). Also, in his military career, he was the chief of the ISI’s counter-intelligence wing.

He was also the Chief of Staff to then-Corps Commander Rawalpindi, General Bajwa, who is currently the COAS. Only three XI Corp Commanders have ever been promoted to four-star general rank: General Sawar Khan, General Mirza Aslam Baig, and General Ahsan-ul-Haq. Gen. Faiz as DG ISI remained in limelight.

He also visited Kabul soon after the Afghan Taliban’s takeover of Afghanistan. Many circles are talking about the positioning of Gen. Faiz as possible next COAS. However, only the exact time will decide the future command of the Pakistan Army.

Lt. Gen Muhammad Amir

He is currently serving as Corp Commander of the Gujranwala Corps. Before this, he served as Advocate General. As a Major General, Amir served as GOC 10 Infantry Division, Lahore.

He also served as DG Staff at COAS Secretariat.

Lt. Gen Muhammad Chiragh Haider

He is currently serving as Corps Commander Multan, Prior to being Corp Commander Multan, Haider was serving as DG Joint Staff Headquarters.

Previously, he also undertook responsibilities as DG Military training and GOC Infantry Division Jhelum.

Lt. Gen Nadeem Anjum
He is serving as the Director-General of Inter-Services Intelligence (DG ISI). He was commissioned in the 28th Punjab Regiment of infantry.

He has also served as Inspector-General of the Frontier Corps, Brigadier Commander Waziristan, and Kurram Agency. Anjum also served as Corp Commander of V Corps at Karachi.

The Army contenders for the future COAS are promoted by name through the outgoing Chief of Army Staff, from whom the Prime Minister selects the new COAS and CJCSC, according to protocol. Now it’s up to Prime Minister Imran Khan to decide whether to stick to the seniority list or choose any senior official from the list who meets his criteria.

The one more loyal to America...

 

[Green Angel]

US Loyality checker tool will surely decide.

 

[Dreamer.]

After Raheel Sharif and Qamar Bajwa, Nawaz Sharif will also pick the next army chief now. 3 in a row, wow what a great achievement! Maybe he should now be named as the "Chief Selector". Since he is barred from any other office.

Unless somehow elections can be held earlier. But even then election comission will see to it that they aren't.

 

[S.Y.A]

chairman jcsc should now come from PAF or PN, as it was originally done, the post should be rotated between the three forces. army general should be shown the door. the post should be empowered.

 

[Dreamer.]

Hope you read the petition filed just now in the IHC to stop the former PMIK, just in case, from extending Bajwa's appointment. The opposition's assessment is exactly opposite yours. Had the CoAS conspired with anyone, the opposition would not have had someone file a pre-emptive case against the possibility of PMIK extending Gen Bajwa's tenure. The best option for Gen Bajwa to see his extension would have been by supporting the PTI government to stay in power.

So all this talk of Gen Bajwa orchestrating his own extension is nonsense. If PMIK did not extend his tenure (meaning he was not conspiring with the then sitting PM) and the opposition is putting safeguards so he won't get an extension, just who in the world is the CoAS conspiring with?

This is the height of withdrawal symptom here. Firing in all directions hoping to land some shots on anyone, anything.

Errr... didn't you get it totally opposite to the facts? The petition filed was to stop IK from removing Bajwa....not to give him extension. Better read the links you post before you post them!

 

[Falcon26]

Hope you read the petition filed just now in the IHC to stop the former PMIK, just in case, from extending Bajwa's appointment. The opposition's assessment is exactly opposite yours. Had the CoAS conspired with anyone, the opposition would not have had someone file a pre-emptive case against the possibility of PMIK extending Gen Bajwa's tenure. The best option for Gen Bajwa to see his extension would have been by supporting the PTI government to stay in power.

So all this talk of Gen Bajwa orchestrating his own extension is nonsense. If PMIK did not extend his tenure (meaning he was not conspiring with the then sitting PM) and the opposition is putting safeguards so he won't get an extension, just who in the world is the CoAS conspiring with?

This is the height of withdrawal symptom here. Firing in all directions hoping to land some shots on anyone, anything.

Based on the information I have been seen people post on social media, the petition was moved to stop the de-notification of COAS.

I am not a PTI supporter, or even a Pakistani for that matter, but it’s obvious the role played by general Bajwa brought things to this sad end for Pakistan. Military lovers can continue to deny, but the evidence is overwhelming.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512848574698373120