When Islamic atheism thrived

[DaRk WaVe]

the people here are again & again talking about the term 'Islamic Atheism', but not about the content of article

I have seen only first part of Jonathan Mille uptill now

Although many of those thinkers, according to Badawi, did not attempt to disprove the existence of God, they lashed out against the notion of prophethood and argued against the privileged position occupied by the Prophet Muhammad and his followers

This statment above should be enough to tell story of these free thinking scholar's, where they stand.

May GOD protect us from these scholar's midevil or current evil. EmO

thats exactly the point, you are too sacred to even read let alone think about the mentioned point/s

the ultimate thing is non of you have ever thought about challenging the super natural
miracles & divinity of words which are thrown at all of us right from the day we are born....

e.g. if a Kid comes & tell all these things to a grown up person(who has supposedly no knowledge about religion & miracles) then would the grown up person give a damn about words of that Kid which was feed with all the miracles & super natural divine stuff ? NO

 

[sparklingway]

I would highly recommend you study the concept of Hellenization in Religion as well as watch an absolutely fantastic three part Documentary by Jonathan Miller which was aired on BBC four called A History of Disbelief.

Jonathan Miller complained about really interesting conversations being deleted on the cutting room floor. The BBC later released them as The Atheism Tapes. The six episodes involve interviews with Colin McGinn, Steven Weinberg, Arthur Miller, Richard Dawkins, Denys Turner and Daniel Dennett. They aren't just supplementary tapes, they're as interesting, if not more interesting, than the original documentary series.

Also note the fact that Atheism: A Rough History of Disbelief was broadcasted in the US as A Brief History of Disbelief and that too without many sponsors for the US media is highly hijacked by conservative Christians. Atheism/disbelief is considered a suicide in US politics and the word evolution is always accompanied by a negative thought.

If people consider that watching a documentary will "corrupt" their minds than either their beliefs are too weak or too weak to be true. One must analyze one's own beliefs and always be introspective.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

If people consider that watching a documentary will "corrupt" their minds than either their beliefs are too weak or too weak to be true. One must analyze one's own beliefs and always be introspective.

seeing the response on this particular thread I am sure at least 90% of the people here have exactly the same mindset, they think that even 'thinking,seeing & reading' about such stuff can harm their belief, if their particular belief is so weak then its not a belief at all

Because after all the belief must not get disturbed by a few caricatures or by a few stupid(so called) free thinkers

 

[Durran3]

Jonathan Miller complained about really interesting conversations being deleted on the cutting room floor. The BBC later released them as The Atheism Tapes. The six episodes involve interviews with Colin McGinn, Steven Weinberg, Arthur Miller, Richard Dawkins, Denys Turner and Daniel Dennett. They aren't just supplementary tapes, they're as interesting, if not more interesting, than the original documentary series.

negative thought.

Thank you for the information. I did not know that the series itself was heavily edited to cater to the crowd in the US. I'll definitely look into it further.

I have fully read both the books by Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) and Daniel Dennett's (Darwin's Dangerous Idea-Evolution and the Meanings of Life). I've also read a few extracts of John McArthur's reply to Denett's book which basically touched upon the concept of how religion controls morality which i found to be fairly absurd. "Thou shall not kill" is not so much of a religious phrase than one which is based on common sense.

I'd like to know if there are any Athiests like me here in Peshawar though lol?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

this will give you all a fair idea about 'The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins'


The God Delusion - A detailed summary and review of the Richard Dawkins bestseller

 

[Durran3]

lol I already have the full book. It's really well written

 

[sparklingway]

I did not know that the series itself was heavily edited to cater to the crowd in the US. I'll definitely look into it further

Only the name was changed to cater to the US crowd, not the content. I was referring to the fact that the 3 part documentary could not cover the entire length of the interviews as time was the biggest constraint and the The Atheism Tapes cover the interviews to some length. The name of the original series was changed for the US because the word "Atheism" attracts negative publicity in the US.

"Thou shall not kill" is not so much of a religious phrase than one which is based on common sense.

Morality can only be based on religion is indeed the weakest of all religious claims.

I'd like to know if there are any Atheists like me here in Peshawar though lol?

Besides the closet atheists?

There are a bunch of Pakistanis brave enough to express their atheism (obviously they joined this group which does not mean that they're the only ones who're open about their lack of belief).

Advanced Search Results - Atheist Nexus

And this short lived blog

http://pakistaniatheist.wordpress.com/

and there's a members only Yahoo Group (old school)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PakistaniAtheists/

 

[Durran3]

There is another website you should check out. It's fairly hard hitting and although some of what's in there does show a slight bias from the creators who want to full fill their personal agenda like Bill Mahar (although i like the guy), most of whats in there is painfully true.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/islam-quran/faq

 

[sparklingway]

Being agnostic is far from being atheistic and that is far from being anti-religion. Maher and Dawkins are both anti-religion for various reasons. But being agnostic or atheistic doesn't mean one has to necessarily criticize the role of religion in society or even faith as a personal choice.

In The Atheism Tapes, McGinn and Miller go over a debate that they find the label "Atheist" to be wrong in the dictionary of a non believer for being a non-believer implicitly implies that the existence is the truth and there's somebody denying the truth; therefore the non-believer. They ended up saying that disbelief is a more appropriate word and the best way would be to use theists for people of faith and no title for themselves.

 

[ice_man]

the people here are again & again talking about the term 'Islamic Atheism', but not about the content of article

I have seen only first part of Jonathan Mille uptill now



thats exactly the point, you are too sacred to even read let alone think about the mentioned point/s

the ultimate thing is non of you have ever thought about challenging the super natural
miracles & divinity of words which are thrown at all of us right from the day we are born....

e.g. if a Kid comes & tell all these things to a grown up person(who has supposedly no knowledge about religion & miracles) then would the grown up person give a damn about words of that Kid which was feed with all the miracles & super natural divine stuff ? NO

correct agree with you 100%!

HOWEVER, the basis of islam are on "leap of faith"!

none of us ever saw the prophet or his companions! we never saw gabriel or Allah either! YET our whole belief is on complete faith! now if we doubt the super natural then we doubt the prophet and eventually doubt our god Allah!

so either we start questioning everything even the book! you can't pick & choose and challenge what you like & what you dislike.

as for believing in the "super natural" well you can have a whole world of non believers in any faith.

Because every religion has had some element of super natural:

1)Moses split the sea
2) David twisted iron & made body armour
3)Solomon ruled every living thing including jins!
4)Jesus could cure leper

now please tell me if we sit down to question all these events in every religion then we will have no religion left!

as for us not understanding these "supernatural events"

well i am sure if someone in the 700A.D said the world was round people would have laughed at him. Or in the 1500s if we go back in time in a plane i am sure they would think we are "supernatural" beings!


so just because we don't understand something because we lack knowledge doesn't make things UNTRUE.

 

[JonAsad]

correct agree with you 100%!

HOWEVER, the basis of islam are on "leap of faith"!

none of us ever saw the prophet or his companions! we never saw gabriel or Allah either! YET our whole belief is on complete faith! now if we doubt the super natural then we doubt the prophet and eventually doubt our god Allah!

so either we start questioning everything even the book! you can't pick & choose and challenge what you like & what you dislike.

as for believing in the "super natural" well you can have a whole world of non believers in any faith.

Because every religion has had some element of super natural:

1)Moses split the sea
2) David twisted iron & made body armour
3)Solomon ruled every living thing including jins!
4)Jesus could cure leper

now please tell me if we sit down to question all these events in every religion then we will have no religion left!

as for us not understanding these "supernatural events"

well i am sure if someone in the 700A.D said the world was round people would have laughed at him. Or in the 1500s if we go back in time in a plane i am sure they would think we are "supernatural" beings!


so just because we don't understand something because we lack knowledge doesn't make things UNTRUE.

Prophet Muhammad split the Moon... NASA confirms that the moon was indeed split.. off topic i guess.
Cheers

 

[sparklingway]

NASA confirms that the moon was indeed split.. off topic i guess.

The image used by all pseudo-scientific Islamic websites which conjure facts to justify something that is based on faith is entirely misleading.

The picture concerned is of a deep crater and a horizontal split, called a linear or straight rille. The said picture is of Ariadaeus on the shores of Mare Tranquillitatis, specifically the Rima Ariadaeus. Linear rilles are geographical features caused when the land sinks between the parallel faults. And the rille in this case does not extend across the Moon's surface as fallaciously claimed by most websites that claim to give conclusive evidence and are actually misleading.

This is a Google Moon picture:-



Do you see a splitting line anywhere? I don't.

Now this is an older cropped picture for study of the rille:-

The Rima Ariadaeus is 300km long, while the diameter of the moon is around 3475km.

Search around, you'll only find Islamic blogs/forums citing this as evidence and quoting NASA or "American scientist" falsely.

For a detailed study on the nature of the concerned crater, read about linear rilles of the moon. Google it up.

If you believe in something based on faith, believe it but don't cite scientific support when it's not there, don't fake scientific evidence and don't use science to justify religion in the wider context for they are mutually exclusive domains.

 

[JonAsad]

The image used by all pseudo-scientific Islamic websites which conjure facts to justify something that is based on faith is entirely misleading.

The picture concerned is of a deep crater and a horizontal split, called a linear or straight rille. The said picture is of Ariadaeus on the shores of Mare Tranquillitatis, specifically the Rima Ariadaeus. Linear rilles are geographical features caused when the land sinks between the parallel faults. And the rille in this case does not extend across the Moon's surface as fallaciously claimed by most websites that claim to give conclusive evidence and are actually misleading.

This is a Google Moon picture:-



Do you see a splitting line anywhere? I don't.

Now this is an older cropped picture for study of the rille:-

The Rima Ariadaeus is 300km long, while the diameter of the moon is around 3475km.

Search around, you'll only find Islamic blogs/forums citing this as evidence and quoting NASA or "American scientist" falsely.

For a detailed study on the nature of the concerned crater, read about linear rilles of the moon. Google it up.

If you believe in something based on faith, believe it but don't cite scientific support when it's not there, don't fake scientific evidence and don't use science to justify religion in the wider context for they are mutually exclusive domains.

The Splitting of the Moon

Crack on moon confirms Prophet Muhammad (S) had split it | Jafariya News Network

^^^ This oblique view of the Moon's surface was photographed by the Apollo 10 astronauts in May of 1969. Center point coordinates are located at 13 degrees, 3 minutes east longitude and 7 degrees, 1 minute north latitude. One of the Apollo 10 astronauts attached a 250mm lens and aimed a handheld 70mm camera at the surface from lunar orbit for a series of pictures in this area.


Quranic Miracles site.

Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an :: HARUN YAHYA ::

 

[JonAsad]

The Splitting of the moon "historically"

Historical documentation of the splitting of the moon:

The Indian history has recorded the name of one of their kings, Chakrawati Farmas, who is claimed to have witnessed the event of the splitting of the moon. An Indian historical manuscript [The Indian manuscript is kept in the India Office Library, London, which has reference number: Arabic, 2807, 152-173. It is quoted in the book “Muhammad Rasulullah,” by M. Hamidullah (2)] reports that: “There is a very old tradition in Malabar, South-West Coast of India, that Chakrawati Farmas, one of their kings had observed the splitting of the moon, the celebrated miracle of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) at Mecca, and learning, on inquiry, that there was a prediction of the coming of a Messenger of God from Arabia, he appointed his son as regent and set out to meet him. He embraced Islam at the hand of the Prophet, and when returning home, at the direction of the Prophet, he died at the port of Zafar. This information is in an Indian manuscript kept in the “India Office Library”, which contains several other details about King Chakrawati Farmas.

The Indian king that visited the Prophet (peace be upon him) is mentioned in the Books of Hadith. In al-Hakim’s Mustadrak[3] it is reported that Abu Sa’id al-Khudri said: “Then the King of India gave Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) a gift, a bottle of pickle that had ginger in it. The Holy Prophet distributed it among his Companions. I also received a piece of it to eat.”

It is known that the king became a Companion through meeting the Messenger (peace be upon him) and believing in him and dying as such.

Islamic references preserve the story of this Companion, who came from India. Imam Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani has mentioned him in al-Isabah and in Lisan al-Mizan.[4] He says that his name was (Sirbanak), the name he is known by among the Arabs.

I will also like if some indian members contribute on this.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Was Iqbal an Islamic Atheist,..

I greatly admire his philosophical work especially in context of comparison of cultures and religion of the east and west.

was Einstein an atheist..!!! Some people think that the Prophet Muhammad's Waqia of Miraje (When the Prophet Mohammad(PBUM) travelled on the Back of Burrak(a special horse whose speed is said to be equal to the speed of light) to meet GOD almighty, is a Quranic justification of Einstein's Theory of Relativity.