When did South China Sea become China's "core interest"?

[huzihaidao12]

Now, focus on my comment #264

Hell, Lý Long Tường also built home for his son in Taiwan
So please forget "build home" argument




You bring Java here, not me

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

1.British named and claim USA as their territory aslo, but USA doesnt belong to Birtish now , same with CHina, you did not send troop to protect, so you lost your claim.

VN and CHina are the member of UN now, so we must follow the UN's rules, we don't play CHina's rule here.

2.They're not belong to Java and not belong to CHina also bcz you fail to send troop to protect them, so they belong to VN bcz we keep sending troop to protect those islands ,

I misunderstood your point, I thought you have the same view, and one of your compatriots. Sorry.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

I misunderstood your point, I thought you have the same view, and one of your compatriots. Sorry.

No, all of my points are totally different from that guy (Nice Guy/Viva_Viet/robinhood)
My point is, according to your argument, if China has the right over Paracel, Vietnam also has the right over ... Taiwan. Both of them are ridiculous
So, in conclusion, China hadn't claimed or set sovereignty in Paracel and Spartly until 1900s, and Vietnam had already claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, Westerners in 18th, 19th Century affirmed it.

 

[huzihaidao12]

God, the Westerners want to conquer Vietnam but don't want to conquer China? Hell, in fact they like China much more than Vietnam (8 nations want to conquer China but only 1 (France) want to conquer Vietnam), so with your argument (Westerners need land), they should say those islands belong to China
In addiction, in early 17th, 18th century, Vietnam was in superb civil wars but still too strong to conquer, Dutch, French had lost every battle they fight with any faction in Vietnam, so I don't think they want to conquer Vietnam that time


No, China is still a vast empire, is daunting. Your point of view that the West has been planning to launch many wars in Vietnam, but until 1840 that started the first war on China, and many voted against the war proposal in the British Parliament , and, you know history, you know they will have many failures in Vietnam, but they do not know at that time, so plan until they have been successful.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

No, all of my points are totally different from that guy (Nice Guy/Viva_Viet/robinhood)
My point is, according to your argument, if China has the right over Paracel, Vietnam also has the right over ... Taiwan. Both of them are ridiculous
So, in conclusion, China hadn't claimed or set sovereignty in Paracel and Spartly until 1900s, and Vietnam had already claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, Westerners in 18th, 19th Century affirmed it.

I do not understand, do you think, what is my point? You can make it clear? By the way, you need not to use too many emoticons, as long as you can seriously discuss, I have the will.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

It's not understanding or something like that, Westerners came and saw Vietnamese troops there and Vietnamese flags were flying over Paracel, so they wrote what they see. Understand? (Do you need me prove that there are Vietnamese troops and flags there? I'm pleased to prove it if you want)


If you have evidence, it is very good, by the way, I have been asked the Vietnamese have any historical records before the colonial era.

 

[huzihaidao12]

If some say Paracels belongs to China, some say it belongs to Vietnam, we have to doubt. But in this situation, from English to Dutch, French, German, Portuguese, Spanish, Belgian, American, Italian... all says that Paracel belongs to Vietnam

No, not all.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/112365-rising-tensions-between-china-vietnam-210.html

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

No, China is still a vast empire, is daunting. Your point of view that the West has been planning to launch many wars in Vietnam, but until 1840 that started the first war on China, and many voted against the war proposal in the British Parliament , and, you know history, you know they will have many failures in Vietnam, but they do not know at that time, so plan until they have been successful.

Nope. The Westerners help one Vietnamese faction attack the other (civil war), but the Westerners always lost
And do not avoid my main point:

God, the Westerners want to conquer Vietnam but don't want to conquer China? Hell, in fact they like China much more than Vietnam (8 nations want to conquer China but only 1 (France) want to conquer Vietnam), so with your argument (Westerners need land), they should say those islands belong to China
In addiction, in early 17th, 18th century, Vietnam was in superb civil wars but still too strong to conquer, Dutch, French had lost every battle they fight with any faction in Vietnam, so I don't think they want to conquer Vietnam that time

I do not understand, do you think, what is my point? You can make it clear? By the way, you need not to use too many emoticons, as long as you can seriously discuss, I have the will.

OK no more emo.

So, in conclusion, China hadn't claimed or set sovereignty in Paracel and Spartly until 1900s, and Vietnam had already claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, Westerners in 18th, 19th Century affirmed it.

If you have evidence, it is very good, by the way, I have been asked the Vietnamese have any historical records before the colonial era.

As I said, Vietnam claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, China first claimed in 1900s. All of them are in colonial age.

---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

If some say Paracels belongs to China, some say it belongs to Vietnam, we have to doubt. But in this situation, from English to Dutch, French, German, Portuguese, Spanish, Belgian, American, Italian... all says that Paracel belongs to Vietnam

No, not all.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/112365-rising-tensions-between-china-vietnam-210.html

So what? There is even no China in the map

 

[huzihaidao12]

As I said, Vietnam claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, China first claimed in 1900s. All of them are in colonial age.

You see your fellow's point of view, my view is to refute him, this is your misunderstanding.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

You see your fellow's point of view, my view is to refute him, this is your misunderstanding.

OK I don't care about him or his points.
So now focus on my comments.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Nope. The Westerners help one Vietnamese faction attack the other (civil war), but the Westerners always lost
And do not avoid my main point:





OK no more emo.




As I said, Vietnam claimed, set sovereignty since 17th, 18th Century, China first claimed in 1900s. All of them are in colonial age.

Yes, they think they can conquer Vietnam, otherwise they would not have such a plan, for china, they just want to start trading in the first, because China is still a huge empire at that time they have no war plans, also did not use agent, or that Vietnam is a piece of meat in his mouth, the Chinese still need to consider a more long-term approach.

---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

It's not understanding or something like that, Westerners came and saw Vietnamese troops there and Vietnamese flags were flying over Paracel, so they wrote what they see. Understand? (Do you need me prove that there are Vietnamese troops and flags there? I'm pleased to prove it if you want)


If you have evidence, it is very good.

 

[huzihaidao12]

I said the West always have a uniform diameter in their interests, I ask you, all Western countries have claimed that a massacre occurred in TIANMEN Square, you think, this is true or collective lie?

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Yes, they think they can conquer Vietnam, otherwise they would not have such a plan, for china, they just want to start trading in the first, because China is still a huge empire at that time they have no war plans, also did not use agent, or that Vietnam is a piece of meat in his mouth, the Chinese still need to consider a more long-term approach.

I don't think that Westerners think they can conquer Vietnam. At that time, all the Vietnamese factions' army were already reformed, their main weapons are muskets and cannons, soldiers were trained by Western officers, they fought with Western tactics. They can't invade Vietnam until late 19th century when Nguyễn dynasty was heavily corrupted so they had to disband most of their army.
And do not try to invade my main point

God, the Westerners want to conquer Vietnam but don't want to conquer China? Hell, in fact they like China much more than Vietnam (8 nations want to conquer China but only 1 (France) want to conquer Vietnam), so with your argument (Westerners need land), they should say those islands belong to China
In addiction, in early 17th, 18th century, Vietnam was in superb civil wars but still too strong to conquer, Dutch, French had lost every battle they fight with any faction in Vietnam, so I don't think they want to conquer Vietnam that time

If you have evidence, it is very good.

Soldiers:

You can read that think, right? They tell about "Hải đội Hoàng Sa" (Paracel naval troops) which garrison in Paracel.

Flags:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...qMGZ0TkpCTHZ6TVE&hl=en&authkey=COyTzIwK#gid=0
The Italian book "Del vario grado d'importanza degli stati odierni" was published in Milano, 1841. Page 421 mentions about the event Gia Long emperor pitch the flag to own Paracels in 1816 (Western standard), but Paracels belongs to Cocochina many years ago, according to Western documents.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

I said the West always have a uniform diameter in their interests, I ask you, all Western countries have claimed that a massacre occurred in TIANMEN Square, you think, this is true or collective lie?

Of course it's true, lol You don't know that there was a massacre at that square? Oh hell

 

[huzihaidao12]

I don't think that Westerners think they can conquer Vietnam. At that time, all the Vietnamese factions' army were already reformed, their main weapons are muskets and cannons, soldiers were trained by Western officers, they fought with Western tactics. They can't invade Vietnam until late 19th century when Nguyễn dynasty was heavily corrupted so they had to disband most of their army.
And do not try to invade my main point

No, China is still a vast empire, is daunting. Your point of view that the West has been planning to launch many wars in Vietnam, but until 1840 that started the first war on China, and many voted against the war proposal in the British Parliament , and, you know history, you know they will have many failures in Vietnam, but they do not know at that time, so plan until they have been successful.

Yes, they think they can conquer Vietnam, otherwise they would not have such a plan, for china, they just want to start trading in the first, because China is still a huge empire at that time they have no war plans, also did not use agent, or that Vietnam is a piece of meat in his mouth, the Chinese still need to consider a more long-term approach.



I think I have done enough to show and that was very clear, until 1840, the West does not have any military action in China, including the use of agents. It is clear, when the British Parliament to discuss the proposal on the Opium War, or even nearly half of the members against it. Until 1840, Western policy is to conduct trade and China, all of which have been sufficiently clear.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Soldiers:

You can read that think, right? They tell about "Hải đội Hoàng Sa" (Paracel naval troops) which garrison in Paracel.

Flags:



---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

On this picture, there are no more pictures? I can only tell that there is a "武". Or can you tell me more details on this image, its source and more content.

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Of course it's true, lol You don't know that there was a massacre at that square? Oh hell

Are you sure?

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

No information about the Navy that it could be a person's name, it is "武文雄" , and some numbers.

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 PM ----------

The second picture, though not very clear, but I think that it has no information about the Navy, or you have a bigger picture?

 

[huzihaidao12]

I have carefully read, it is a person's name, there may be some information in the sailor, the other does not have enough letters and you have more information about this picture?

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

Can you provide a clear version, it can tells me all the Chinese word in this picture?

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

No, China is still a vast empire, is daunting. Your point of view that the West has been planning to launch many wars in Vietnam, but until 1840 that started the first war on China, and many voted against the war proposal in the British Parliament , and, you know history, you know they will have many failures in Vietnam, but they do not know at that time, so plan until they have been successful.

Yes, they think they can conquer Vietnam, otherwise they would not have such a plan, for china, they just want to start trading in the first, because China is still a huge empire at that time they have no war plans, also did not use agent, or that Vietnam is a piece of meat in his mouth, the Chinese still need to consider a more long-term approach.

I think I have done enough to show and that was very clear, until 1840, the West does not have any military action in China, including the use of agents. It is clear, when the British Parliament to discuss the proposal on the Opium War, or even nearly half of the members against it. Until 1840, Western policy is to conduct trade and China, all of which have been sufficiently clear.

Hell, you haven't read a word from my previous comment.

On this picture, there are no more pictures? I can only tell that there is a "武". Or can you tell me more details on this image, its source and more content.
No information about the Navy that it could be a person's name, it is "武文雄" , and some numbers.
The second picture, though not very clear, but I think that it has no information about the Navy, or you have a bigger picture?

It's talk about Nguyễn dynasty call to arms some-ten men (70-80 men if I'm not mistaken) from Lý Sơn island, they will go to Paracel to protect the islands, collect goods from sunk ships...
Other version?
tờ chiếu gia tộc họ Đặng Lý SƠn - Google Search
Choose any version you want.

Are you sure?

Hell, yes. Ask everybody in the world, they will all say that the massacre was existed.

BTW, earliest time when Vietnamese dynasty claim sovereignty over Paracel is around 1460-1497.
Earliest time when Chinese dynasty claim sovereignty over Paracel is around 1900s.
Much more different at all.

 

[meocoi]

Finally, it seems to be that China claimed that it possessed these two islands for two thousands years but there were no official map that included these islands during that time. All the maps given by you show quite clear that Hainan is the southernmost part of China. This is very consistent with the views of most expert through out the world, of course except those from China, that China did not care about these islands at least until 19 century. They only need these islands recently for oil and their energy policy, also they can cut down all the material and energy supply line for Japan and Korea when they want. This is also the reason of their refuse to settle the dispute in the international court when Philippine recently suggest them. This is very ridiculous when China always say that they have all legal prove and their sovereignty is indisputable but do not want to use law to solve the problem but instead use the army or aircraft carrier. The situation now is exactly described by a Prof from Stanford University:

"For countries that are littoral to the South China Sea, China’s claims are analogous to one of your neighbors claiming that the entire street in front of your home is his personal property. Furthermore, he claims that your sidewalk, driveway, and front yard clear up to the doorstep also belong to him. His armed guards park their cars in your driveway and he picks flowers out of your garden. If you or your neighbors protest he denies the validity of your title and refuses to settle in court. If someone insists on his property rights then the guards beat him."

Just think how does it look like in the court, the judge will ask Chinese: you say you possessed these islands for two thousands years so were they include in your official maps. Chinese will answer: sorry, only Hainan can be seen in these maps, you must read different writings of us or look into other records in order to "see" these islands. Very funny, lol.

 

[Star√ation]

...

The Chinese have valid proofs to claim the South China Sea, bro.
The Vietnamese also have valid proofs too.
The Philippines bases its claims on the EEZ.
The peculiar thing is that both Vietnam and China did practise a "closed policy" in which people were forbidden from free roaming the blue water for a long time (many centuries). So, those islands and islets along the West Pacific rim were long-time bases for pirate groups rather than directly governed by any govs.
That's the reason why neither Vietnam nor China has strong, decisive proofs for their claims.

Every country involved in the South China Sea are crazy for its wealth oil reserve, not only China. But the most controversy was that China did claim so much, the entire South China Sea. It's sorta historical mistakes made by the Chiang Kai Shek gov, even now if Chinese gov want to seriously resolve the issue by stepping back and making compromises (claiming less), it still seems to be impossible due to China's internal nationalism movement.

The problem with your Chinese counterpart huzihaidao12 that he did not do a good digging-work of finding the the appropriate proof does not mean that there are no proof from Chinese at all.