What’s Wrong With Iran’s Fake Aircraft Carrier

[QWECXZ]

Many of Iranian long range ballistic missiles can be used for this role, an example I have used is the missiles with cluster warhead. The issue is not the missiles, but being able to detect and track the surface fleets at range. Being able to accurately (in case of MaRV) target the ships is not an issue for Iran.

I know. I thought we actually had tested missiles designed for targeting naval vessels at a distance of 2000 kilometers.
It can be useful against oil tankers in the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Those huge objects are too heavy to be able to change course rapidly and their course of movement can be more or less predicted in a few minutes later. And they will blow up easily.

100 such missiles will be more than enough to halt the Saudi oil exports.

 

[Philosopher]

I know. I thought we actually had missiles designed for targeting naval vessels at a distance of 2000 kilometers.

They may do, whether they are exactly the same missiles I am referring to or different ones is another story. In terms of missiles specifically designed for naval vessels, these missiles can be used for the same purposes. A system like Khoramshahr can be used for both ground based systems and surface fleet. Like mention before, the issue is one of detection/tracking the fleet.

 

[QWECXZ]

They may do, whether they are exactly the same missiles I am referring to or different ones is another story. In terms of missiles specifically designed for naval vessels, these missiles can be used for the same purposes. A system like Khoramshahr can be used for both ground based systems and surface fleet. Like mention before, the issue is one of detection/tracking the fleet.

I thought you meant that they already have developed such missiles.

I am rather focusing on the strategic importance of such a development for Iran. If Iran manages to do that, we will be able to stop the flow of oil and petrochemicals, particularly from Saudi Arabia, to Europe.

Tracking can be done using satellites obviously. The inertia of oil tankers is high and they have little room for maneuvering against such an incoming threat. Cluster munitions will increase the chance of hitting an oil tanker.

 

[Philosopher]

I thought you meant that they already have developed such missiles.

They have developed them. Like I said, there are many missiles that could be candidates for this.

 

[QWECXZ]

They have developed them. Like I said, there are many missiles that could be candidates for this.

I think you and I have different definitions of having something developed. To me, something that has been developed is no longer about "candidates". They have already tried the candidates and found the one that suits their purpose the most.

 

[Philosopher]

I think you and I have different definitions of having something developed. To me, something that has been developed is no longer about "candidates". They have already tried the candidates and found the one that suits their purpose the most.

Your comment makes zero sense. I am saying from my point of view the anti-ship ballistic could be one of many candidates, this does not mean the system has not been developed. Furthermore, I have already posted the video showing the head of IRGC aerospace force stating they have such a missile.

 

[QWECXZ]

Your comment makes zero sense. I am saying from my point of view the anti-ship ballistic could be one of many candidates, this does not mean the system has not been developed. Furthermore, I have already posted the video showing the head of IRGC aerospace force stating they have such a missile.

And yet such a system has never been tested publicly.
And you had said earlier Iran possesses 2000 km anti-ship missiles. Something that caught my attention and initiated this conversation in the first place.

 

[Philosopher]

And yet such a system has never been tested publicly.
And you had said earlier Iran possesses 2000 km anti-ship missiles. Something that initiated all of this in the first place.

You're talking as if there is something completely different about a ballistic missile used to target ships as opposed to the whole array of pinpoint ballistic missiles Iran has already developed. Explain to me why a Khoramshahr ballistic missile with a MaRV would not be able to target a ship at sea.

I don't need them to test this concept "publicly" to put 2+2 together to know they have it. This is despite the fact Hajizadeh has confirmed their existence.

 

[QWECXZ]

You're talking as if there is something completely different about a ballistic missile used to target ships as opposed to the whole array of pinpoint ballistic missiles Iran has already developed. Explain to me why a Khoramshahr ballistic missile with a MaRV would not be able to target a ship at sea.

I don't need them to test this concept "publicly" to put 2+2 together to know they have it. This is despite the fact Hajizadeh has confirmed their existence.

You're way off topic now. And the discussion is really fruitless at this point.

So, the short answer is: No, Iran does not have any public 2000 kilometers anti-ship missiles and we know nothing about such a system at the moment.

I think that's it for now.

 

[Philosopher]

You're way off topic now. And the discussion is really fruitless at this point.

You raised a question, and I answered it.

So, the short answer is: No, Iran does not have any public 2000 kilometers anti-ship missiles and we know nothing about such a system at the moment.

This statement just shows you do not even understand what such a system is. I have already asked you to explain to me why Iran's existing missiles (K-1) cannot be used as an anti-ship ballistic missile.

 

[Mithridates]

And yet such a system has never been tested publicly.
And you had said earlier Iran possesses 2000 km anti-ship missiles. Something that caught my attention and initiated this conversation in the first place.

there were news about Iranian long range anti ship ballistic missile in the past, we in the forum speculated that it might be something like khorramshahr missile. it has enough space in it's tip for a radar to track a ship in middle of sea. it's not confirmed but yes possibly we have something similar.

 

[Philosopher]

there were news about Iranian long range anti ship ballistic missile in the past, we in the forum speculated that it might be something like khorramshahr missile. it has enough space in it's tip for a radar to track a ship in middle of sea. it's not confirmed but yes possibly we have something similar.

As long as Iran can detect and track the surface fleet and allow for trajectory correction, then most of these missiles with MaRV are basically also "anti-ship ballistic missiles". Furthermore, when considering the cluster warhead systems, Iran in reality had anti-ship ballistic missiles for years. General Safavi said in an interview (I believe in 06) about use of such system against carriers in the Persian Gulf. The main technical issues are not the missiles but that surface detection and tracking.

 

[Mithridates]

US Lexington class carrier was able to carry 90 aircraft, 4*200mm cannons and 12*127mm cannons. this things weight ~350 tons overall.
each oto melara-76mm multi purpose weights ~7.5 tons empty. each kamand/ak-630 point defense weights 1 ton empty. two 76mm+six 30mm cannons=21 tons empty.
240*6.296 kg (76mm ordinary ammunition weight)=1.5 tons==>1.5*2=3 tons
4000*853g (30*165mm ammunition weight)=~3.5 tons==>3.5*6=21 tons
overall weapons and ammunition weight=21+21+3=45 tons
each sayyad-2 missile alongside with it's canister weights 1.8 tons. considering this with a wild guess, sayyad 4 would weight around 6 tons with it's canister.
20*SD-4=120 tons
each hawk/shaheen missile weight 590 kg (shalamcheh-2 looks lighter but anyway we consider worst case scenario). if we consider the same canister weight to missile weight of sayyad-2 for shalamcheh-2, meaning 0.8 missile weight:
590 kg*40=23.6 tons==>23.6*1.8=42.5 tons.
overall air defenses weight=120+42.5=162.5 tons

350-207.5=142.5 tons weight saved for aerial vehicles and cruise missiles
each mil mi-17 has 13 tons max take off weight:
5*13=65 tons
each ah-1j has 4.5 max take off weight:
4.5*6=27 tons.
overall helicopters weight:
65+27=92 tons

162.5-92=70.5 tons weight saved for cruise missiles and drones

considering that the shahed s-191 uses tj-100 engine, and the fact that another small homemade airplane uses the same engine and it's range is similar and it weights around 600 kg, i assume each s-191 drone weights the same. so for 50 s-191 drones we will spare 30 tons.
considering the thrust/weight ratio of kh-55 missile and using tj-100 thrust (which we use it in ya ali cruise missile), each ya ali missile will weight around 600 kg. with 40.5 tons remaining after adding drones we can have around 70 ya ali missiles onboard of our aircraft cruiser. or 27 soumar cruise missiles.

so lets review our new aircraft carrier/aircraft cruiser capabilities:

-two oto melara-76/fajr-27 with 240 round per cannon
-six ak-630/kamand CIWS with 4000 rounds per cannon
-20 sayyad-4 long range missiles
-40 shalamcheh-2 short range missiles
-5 mil mi-17 medium transport helicopters
-6 ah-1j attack helicopters
-50 stealth s-191 drones
-70 ya ali or 27 soumar/kh-55 cruise missile

consider this fact that lexington used 16 water boilers to power it's propulsion, while we can use two or three of our f-4s engines with free running turbine in tandem to make more power compared to Lexington. it translates into lighter weights.

Lexington class carrier:

 

[Hack-Hook]

You're talking as if there is something completely different about a ballistic missile used to target ships as opposed to the whole array of pinpoint ballistic missiles Iran has already developed. Explain to me why a Khoramshahr ballistic missile with a MaRV would not be able to target a ship at sea.

I don't need them to test this concept "publicly" to put 2+2 together to know they have it. This is despite the fact Hajizadeh has confirmed their existence.

yes they are a lot different

You raised a question, and I answered it.




This statement just shows you do not even understand what such a system is. I have already asked you to explain to me why Iran's existing missiles (K-1) cannot be used as an anti-ship ballistic missile.

the answer is in targetting system and will thwe misile wll be able to correct course fast enough.from what range the missile can lock on its target and how fast it travel that distance.
there is a reason we use quasi balistic missile to target ships not balistic missiles. they are a lot slower at final stage of their path

there were news about Iranian long range anti ship ballistic missile in the past, we in the forum speculated that it might be something like khorramshahr missile. it has enough space in it's tip for a radar to track a ship in middle of sea. it's not confirmed but yes possibly we have something similar.

the must we said is that we are increasing the range og Persian gulf missile twice its current range that again point to another quasi ballistic missile

 

[Philosopher]

yes they are a lot different
the answer is in targetting system and will thwe misile wll be able to correct course fast enough.from what range the missile can lock on its target and how fast it travel that distance.
there is a reason we use quasi balistic missile to target ships not balistic missiles. they are a lot slower at final stage of their path

I already explained the MaRV in missiles like K-1/2 can do what you just said. Course correction is possible. The missiles do not need to "lock" on anything. Certain guidance systems can utilise locking mechanism, i.e thermal, but that is not a necessity.