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He is going to meet his creator with a resume to get Jannah, defiantly he is happy ...One day Inshallah for Pak Watan I would love to embraced martyrdom same way....

Alhamdolillah...... really a face of satisfied person.


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@Desert Fox @Skies @Taygibay

Thanks for this post. It was good explanation. However @Nilgiri I have a question regarding veda.
Can you tag me and answer me in "whatever" thread?
What is the main part ( like samhita, Brahman , upanishads )of veda, and why Vedas are full of such deity ( I.e indra, agni, Varuna etc) whom you don't worship although Vedas are major scriptures right ? It really puzzle me, can you give me some authentic information and explanation? (Not here as it will be completely off topic as I might ask few more questions for better understanding) , so please in whatever or another thread).
Thanks in advance.

Basically Vedas have many deities because the Vedic religion divested more individual moral authority on them, in effort to give a nuanced message on why even set up a core moral authority and understanding over time (which in essence turned out to be Upanishads). In a way the almighty god, the Brahman, the force of the universe personified in the sound of OM... (and the conclusion of the Vedas itself is really God and Truth are the same thing) set up a process (Samhita i.e underlying esoteric discourse) of how do moral debates and struggles over time (in conflict with: themselves, immoral forces and even the larger layer of absolute Truth)...reveal God in the end.

Take the concept of Indra. The continued story (in Vedas and post-Vedas) is his struggle against the evil/disorder/ego personified by the Asuras. That in itself sets the notion that there is Good and Evil and that the Good must be fought for and preserved. From only that does the understanding of a higher force than Indra himself comes (i.e Indra himself is found within this battle, who surveys it from above and what is the purpose?). This is also why later Indra becomes (after conclusively defeating the Asuras and they become largely irrelevant in further stories) fully invested (in Upanishads and also many Puranas) in asserting his overlordship on mankind because of his Ego..i.e removal from greater truth...becoming the very thing he swore to destroy (the commentary on Indra being a fallen hero is quite significant one in Hinduism).

Any humans trying to achieve the greater truth beyond him (Indra) is a threat and must be swayed and deflected from it. Hence in all post-vedic stories... he sends the seductive apsaras, promise of kingdoms (so man may have dominion over other men, much like Indra revels in in larger scale) and material wealth and the overall message that life is just a material thing to be enjoyed....to each and every greater truth seeker on Earth (the sages, ascetics, warriors, thinkers, philosophers seeking more truth and purpose beyond just the material world). But the few of them find the greater truths anyway, past all these temptations...some dynamically use to defeat Indra (or another worthy quarry) himself in some way and become a scale of untruth themselves in that process/desire (setting up the absolute Truth to defeat them in the end again)...some simply revel there statically (the purpose of Buddhism etc)....others still realise there is no ending for the soul to the search for ultimate truth itself, just like infinity cannot be reached (but the process is itself what matters the most...to create order out of disorder...and that itself becomes the ultimate truth rather than an end defined goal etc)....i.e that order and only order leads to Truth itself.

Hence that is why the forces/deities in the Vedas are symbolic largely to the greater absolute truth (Brahman) that is established in the Upanishads (the refined underlying meanings/debates of the Vedas) and following Puranas. In ritual practice, the myriad of powerful deities in the Vedas were subsumed by Creator, Preserver and Destroyer (since those are the fundamental processes in all life, which is the basis of how we even experience this all in first place) who were generally just hinted at esoterically in the Vedas...and these powers are subsumed by the larger reality/truth/purpose that is the Brahman (or female equivalent of Shakthi).

Why did this process (from many to a few to three to one) happen? Simply put, humans are stupider and weaker now overall (in every way imaginable)....so things have to be simplified for them to hold onto morality wise overall (of course there are those that are exceedingly righteous..i.e heroes despite the deteoriation...but they will find a way to establish good in society anyway). Before there could be many competing conundrum of moral forces (in say Vedas) simply because humans were able to organise intuitively and find the common single message/authority of one single truth, having just awoken to their higher consciousness, the raw nature of civilisation was very much in their souls still. It is seen in the progression of the Yugas (and why Vedas were even split into 4 pieces just before Kaliyug the current and last one started).

Now as civilisation deteoriates, the moral system for truth naturally is propelled to be crystallised/refined to such extent such that it imprints in large enough audience to begin with...because humans have now removed themselves more and more with their own ego/materialism, and thus cannot as readily access truth from perceived cacophony, it has to be crystallised and given as simple as possible (and then the few astonishing ones can explore deeper from there etc). It is an interesting inverse relationship imo.

You see Hinduism is just a longer drawn out purpose of how humans found meaning from that which they saw around them and then crystallised it....recognising that which is good is fundamentally which creates order....and the opposite for evil....harnessing concept of the Hero (since the good is embodied and personified most readily there).

We see similar parallels with the story of Garden of Eden, the great flood and the Exodus in the Abrahamic world (their earliest extant stories with the concept of the hero).

If you do have some time to spare, please go through this (it gets really interesting around the middle, and explains a lot of what I am trying to describe here more generally as it applies to our core psyche and self-realisation of existence/purpose). It also touches a lot of what I was trying to explain to @Mage, he should watch it too i feel:

 
@Desert Fox @Skies @Taygibay



Basically Vedas have many deities because the Vedic religion divested more individual moral authority on them, in effort to give a nuanced message on why even set up a core moral authority and understanding over time (which in essence turned out to be Upanishads). In a way the almighty god, the Brahman, the force of the universe personified in the sound of OM... (and the conclusion of the Vedas itself is really God and Truth are the same thing) set up a process (Samhita i.e underlying esoteric discourse) of how do moral debates and struggles over time (in conflict with: themselves, immoral forces and even the larger layer of absolute Truth)...reveal God in the end.

Take the concept of Indra. The continued story (in Vedas and post-Vedas) is his struggle against the evil/disorder/ego personified by the Asuras. That in itself sets the notion that there is Good and Evil and that the Good must be fought for and preserved. From only that does the understanding of a higher force than Indra himself comes (i.e Indra himself is found within this battle, who surveys it from above and what is the purpose?). This is also why later Indra becomes (after conclusively defeating the Asuras and they become largely irrelevant in further stories) fully invested (in Upanishads and also many Puranas) in asserting his overlordship on mankind because of his Ego..i.e removal from greater truth...becoming the very thing he swore to destroy (the commentary on Indra being a fallen hero is quite significant one in Hinduism).

Any humans trying to achieve the greater truth beyond him (Indra) is a threat and must be swayed and deflected from it. Hence in all post-vedic stories... he sends the seductive apsaras, promise of kingdoms (so man may have dominion over other men, much like Indra revels in in larger scale) and material wealth and the overall message that life is just a material thing to be enjoyed....to each and every greater truth seeker on Earth (the sages, ascetics, warriors, thinkers, philosophers seeking more truth and purpose beyond just the material world). But the few of them find the greater truths anyway, past all these temptations...some dynamically use to defeat Indra (or another worthy quarry) himself in some way and become a scale of untruth themselves in that process/desire (setting up the absolute Truth to defeat them in the end again)...some simply revel there statically (the purpose of Buddhism etc)....others still realise there is no ending for the soul to the search for ultimate truth itself, just like infinity cannot be reached (but the process is itself what matters the most...to create order out of disorder...and that itself becomes the ultimate truth rather than an end defined goal etc)....i.e that order and only order leads to Truth itself.

Hence that is why the forces/deities in the Vedas are symbolic largely to the greater absolute truth (Brahman) that is established in the Upanishads (the refined underlying meanings/debates of the Vedas) and following Puranas. In ritual practice, the myriad of powerful deities in the Vedas were subsumed by Creator, Preserver and Destroyer (since those are the fundamental processes in all life, which is the basis of how we even experience this all in first place) who were generally just hinted at esoterically in the Vedas...and these powers are subsumed by the larger reality/truth/purpose that is the Brahman (or female equivalent of Shakthi).

Why did this process (from many to a few to three to one) happen? Simply put, humans are stupider and weaker now overall (in every way imaginable)....so things have to be simplified for them to hold onto morality wise overall (of course there are those that are exceedingly righteous..i.e heroes despite the deteoriation...but they will find a way to establish good in society anyway). Before there could be many competing conundrum of moral forces (in say Vedas) simply because humans were able to organise intuitively and find the common single message/authority of one single truth, having just awoken to their higher consciousness, the raw nature of civilisation was very much in their souls still. It is seen in the progression of the Yugas (and why Vedas were even split into 4 pieces just before Kaliyug the current and last one started).

Now as civilisation deteoriates, the moral system for truth naturally is propelled to be crystallised/refined to such extent such that it imprints in large enough audience to begin with...because humans have now removed themselves more and more with their own ego/materialism, and thus cannot as readily access truth from perceived cacophony, it has to be crystallised and given as simple as possible (and then the few astonishing ones can explore deeper from there etc). It is an interesting inverse relationship imo.

You see Hinduism is just a longer drawn out purpose of how humans found meaning from that which they saw around them and then crystallised it....recognising that which is good is fundamentally which creates order....and the opposite for evil....harnessing concept of the Hero (since the good is embodied and personified most readily there).

We see similar parallels with the story of Garden of Eden, the great flood and the Exodus in the Abrahamic world (their earliest extant stories with the concept of the hero).

If you do have some time to spare, please go through this (it gets really interesting around the middle, and explains a lot of what I am trying to describe here more generally as it applies to our core psyche and self-realisation of existence/purpose). It also touches a lot of what I was trying to explain to @Mage, he should watch it too i feel:

Interesting read. Thanks for the tag. The parallels between Norse mythology, Zoroastrianism, and Hindu mythology is something that does not go unnoticed. Could there be a common origin of these religions? Interestingly Evola's touches on this in Metaphysics of War.
 
The parallels between Norse mythology, Zoroastrianism, and Hindu mythology is something that does not go unnoticed.

Indeed.

Could there be a common origin of these religions?

Yes there was....there was some well spring from somewhere (still a point of study, but not much focus there)...Avestan and Sanskrit share many links (in fact Ahura comes from the same cognate as Asura, just in their version they were the good guys I believe...its not strange given even in the Vedas there was an early time of Asura-Deva unity in heaven....and many Devas in the bulk of the stories were originally Asur in their original identity (perhaps an earlier broader union between the Vedic and Zoroastrian religions)....Asur is also a cognate with AEsir of the Norse religion).

It also extends to the Greek pagan religion to some extent (Zeus being a cognate with Dyaus - Indra's father in the Vedas). If you read the Illiad there are many sections that have near exact same rituals as the Vedic religion (the fire altars for oblations, mourning rituals after a warrior death, and the intermediary worship/symbology of idols to the greater forces).

In fact in South India, there is still an understanding/reference to "Aryan" parts of the rituals in the broader Hindu matrix...things like oblations over stone idols (similar to that can be read in the Illiad) are very much considered to be "Aryan" innovation/imposition compared to the precursor base religion found in the South during say the Sangam era (which was more meditation/formless worship but of similar or same forces in nature, with an underlying larger truth). These layers make for interesting study (esp if you go from formal urban to more rural settings), but again not really being researched/compiled actively.
 
@Desert Fox @Skies @Taygibay



Basically Vedas have many deities because the Vedic religion divested more individual moral authority on them, in effort to give a nuanced message on why even set up a core moral authority and understanding over time (which in essence turned out to be Upanishads). In a way the almighty god, the Brahman, the force of the universe personified in the sound of OM... (and the conclusion of the Vedas itself is really God and Truth are the same thing) set up a process (Samhita i.e underlying esoteric discourse) of how do moral debates and struggles over time (in conflict with: themselves, immoral forces and even the larger layer of absolute Truth)...reveal God in the end.

Take the concept of Indra. The continued story (in Vedas and post-Vedas) is his struggle against the evil/disorder/ego personified by the Asuras. That in itself sets the notion that there is Good and Evil and that the Good must be fought for and preserved. From only that does the understanding of a higher force than Indra himself comes (i.e Indra himself is found within this battle, who surveys it from above and what is the purpose?). This is also why later Indra becomes (after conclusively defeating the Asuras and they become largely irrelevant in further stories) fully invested (in Upanishads and also many Puranas) in asserting his overlordship on mankind because of his Ego..i.e removal from greater truth...becoming the very thing he swore to destroy (the commentary on Indra being a fallen hero is quite significant one in Hinduism).

Any humans trying to achieve the greater truth beyond him (Indra) is a threat and must be swayed and deflected from it. Hence in all post-vedic stories... he sends the seductive apsaras, promise of kingdoms (so man may have dominion over other men, much like Indra revels in in larger scale) and material wealth and the overall message that life is just a material thing to be enjoyed....to each and every greater truth seeker on Earth (the sages, ascetics, warriors, thinkers, philosophers seeking more truth and purpose beyond just the material world). But the few of them find the greater truths anyway, past all these temptations...some dynamically use to defeat Indra (or another worthy quarry) himself in some way and become a scale of untruth themselves in that process/desire (setting up the absolute Truth to defeat them in the end again)...some simply revel there statically (the purpose of Buddhism etc)....others still realise there is no ending for the soul to the search for ultimate truth itself, just like infinity cannot be reached (but the process is itself what matters the most...to create order out of disorder...and that itself becomes the ultimate truth rather than an end defined goal etc)....i.e that order and only order leads to Truth itself.

Hence that is why the forces/deities in the Vedas are symbolic largely to the greater absolute truth (Brahman) that is established in the Upanishads (the refined underlying meanings/debates of the Vedas) and following Puranas. In ritual practice, the myriad of powerful deities in the Vedas were subsumed by Creator, Preserver and Destroyer (since those are the fundamental processes in all life, which is the basis of how we even experience this all in first place) who were generally just hinted at esoterically in the Vedas...and these powers are subsumed by the larger reality/truth/purpose that is the Brahman (or female equivalent of Shakthi).

Why did this process (from many to a few to three to one) happen? Simply put, humans are stupider and weaker now overall (in every way imaginable)....so things have to be simplified for them to hold onto morality wise overall (of course there are those that are exceedingly righteous..i.e heroes despite the deteoriation...but they will find a way to establish good in society anyway). Before there could be many competing conundrum of moral forces (in say Vedas) simply because humans were able to organise intuitively and find the common single message/authority of one single truth, having just awoken to their higher consciousness, the raw nature of civilisation was very much in their souls still. It is seen in the progression of the Yugas (and why Vedas were even split into 4 pieces just before Kaliyug the current and last one started).

Now as civilisation deteoriates, the moral system for truth naturally is propelled to be crystallised/refined to such extent such that it imprints in large enough audience to begin with...because humans have now removed themselves more and more with their own ego/materialism, and thus cannot as readily access truth from perceived cacophony, it has to be crystallised and given as simple as possible (and then the few astonishing ones can explore deeper from there etc). It is an interesting inverse relationship imo.

You see Hinduism is just a longer drawn out purpose of how humans found meaning from that which they saw around them and then crystallised it....recognising that which is good is fundamentally which creates order....and the opposite for evil....harnessing concept of the Hero (since the good is embodied and personified most readily there).

We see similar parallels with the story of Garden of Eden, the great flood and the Exodus in the Abrahamic world (their earliest extant stories with the concept of the hero).

If you do have some time to spare, please go through this (it gets really interesting around the middle, and explains a lot of what I am trying to describe here more generally as it applies to our core psyche and self-realisation of existence/purpose). It also touches a lot of what I was trying to explain to @Mage, he should watch it too i feel:

Thanks @Nilgiri ,Well explained ! And I have downloaded this youtube video . Will watch it in few hours.

So actually we can compare vedic deities with good forces aka loyal angels of Christianity who fought against evil spirits/fallen angles? And can take demons like ahi/vritra/Vala for the fallen angles aka devil ,and his fellows right ?

And two more question, the first one is, in Hinduism why the creator prajapati/brahma/hiranyagarbha isn't popular and worshiped like Vishnu and Shiva? Found some different stories when searched net .
Better one was the creator lost importance because the creation is over and now only preservation (Vishnu ) ,and destruction ( Shiva) is working. Is it the real reason ?

And the second question is,
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva represent the 3 gunas rajas, Sattva and tamas.
It's surprising that Shiva is the representative of tamas gunas/darkness/ignorance!!
I found Shiva the most impartial God (imo) in this triad despite his anger .
He is both sage and family person,mean he has a great balance. Also he is widely worshiped by non aryan tribal, and by Asuras too , and he is also kind to them too, so Shiva doesn't care about the races,caste but only care about his devotes right?
Imo he is the most ideal person in Hindu pantheon.

(So Shiva is nearer to Abrahamic God)

Still what made him the representative of tamas gunas?
 
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Interesting how balance came with the
opposing of good and evil, huh?
The restructuration of Ahura Mazda as
a premiss to a single god with a cohort
of lesser ex-devas now sorts of angels
and fighting a limited Satan by the Iran
half of the original while India went with
Indra and the Vedas as forces of good.

At least as interesting to me is the part
on personal truth being an attack on the
truth, on truth itself
that some how derives
to a very Nietzschean view regarding process.
A move found in various religions/philosophy.

Why did this process (from many to a few to three to one) happen? Simply put, humans are stupider and weaker now overall (in every way imaginable)...

Yeah, well, historically the answer might be
as simple as morphing away after buddhism
as came to be with the nascent hinduism.
That in itself is fundamentally Bharati ( beyond Agni )
and by extending the Vedas beyond the elite
to most of the population which in itself is a
turn from quality to quantity, opening Kali yuga.

Humans always mix up source and effects and
in that spirit, it is almost logical that with such
a multitude of Indians ( and of "Indian" kingdoms )
there would be a multitude of Gods to pick from,
thus lessening the value of truth again.

Brahmans going from the sense to the word is
also logical, keeping only the formalism of an
essence
long since lost.


All this picking and choosing prompted the image
of a market place for people looking for God
[/ a god].
The Indians go in and wander between the stands.

By contrast whatever his origin, the philosopher is
going straight to the stand, the original stand.

The lines drawn by the former zig-zag; the one by
the philosopher doesn't. Or at least seems not too
on a macrocosmic level because if we look inside,

it is evident that tension keeps the bridge tight.

Without the goal of his quest, he'd be wavering too.
Without the realm of his quest, he in fact does just
as easily as anybody, say in the romance/love arena
for example.

Excited atoms looking to fission at all times we are.

Thnx my friend, Tay.

P.S. First, just saw your answer to Desert Fox so sorry for expounding
needlessly at the beginning. Oh! And, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, why
not Karen Straughan while you're at it, you dirty little right wing extremist? :D
 
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o_O

[ Open quote ]

I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

[ Close quote ]

The relationship to God is quite singular.

Personally, I don't feel God has ever tried
to do me in as much as its creatures and
even tough as in Indila's immortal words :
je suis un peu paro ... ( Slightly paranoid boy )

to suppose that no one brought about the
whole lot of you mofos just to annoy me ...
that it was a mere fluke of non-existence, is
a much taller fairy-tale than what you reject.

Just saying, not annoyed by you in particular
and in fact : have the best possible day, Tay.

P.S. Glad you're still here; hope I helped :tup:
 
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I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

Great song, I quoted this exact in another thread earlier lol.
 
So actually we can compare vedic deities with good forces aka loyal angels of Christianity who fought against evil spirits/fallen angles? And can take demons like ahi/vritra/Vala for the fallen angles aka devil ,and his fellows right ?

Yes similar phenomenon overall. The concept has many links to Abrahamic religion also having connection to Zoroastrianism mythologies and also if you read epic of gilgamesh etc.

And two more question, the first one is, in Hinduism why the creator prajapati/brahma/hiranyagarbha isn't popular and worshiped like Vishnu and Shiva? Found some different stories when searched net .
Better one was the creator lost importance because the creation is over and now only preservation (Vishnu ) ,and destruction ( Shiva) is working. Is it the real reason ?

Yes, the actual creation can be subsumed by preserver and destroyer (depending on which one of those two one can argue is the ultimate reality). This stems from the process of sustenance and destruction (and the creation resulting only from that) being very much more observable and apparent. Whereas the process of initial creation (and its nature) of all this matter etc around us remains much much more mysterious (and will forever remain so given nature of infinity)...and thus not so relevant for a philosophical dialogue (which needs bounded set to some degree to create ordered systems).

It is encapsulated by the (albeit Vaishnavite) story of Sage Brighu (father of Shukra), when the other great sages ask who is the greatest of the trinity (Creator, Preserver or Destroyer)?...and they elected him (Brighu), the first among of them and greatest (and he had a "third eye" in his foot, a mark of great vestigial power) .... to be their emissary to ask the trinity themselves.

Brighu first goes to the abode of Brahma, but Brahma is so enamoured by Saraswati (his consort)...he fails to see Brighu has arrived....in return Brighu curses him (in his ego)...."O Creator, thou'st is irrelevant, you no longer care about thy creation....thou shall never be worshipped on Earth henceforth".

Brighu then goes to visit the abode of Shiva, but again Shiva is so enamoured by Parvati, he fails to see Brighu and Brighu again curses him (again in his ego) to be worshipped only in the form of the Lingam ("for thoust only seem to be concerned with such base activity").

Finally Brighu visits Vishnu...resting on the sea serpent on the cosmic ocean...with Laxmi massaging his feet (so clearly Vishnu at least is not focused on his consort) and again waits for Vishnu to acknowledge him....but Vishnu does not. In his anger at being rejected by the entire trinity, hot tempered Brighu runs to Vishnu and kicks him in the chest...hurling insults and anger....and Vishnu finally acknowledges and pacifies the Sage (explaining he is eternally focused on the entire universe, thus cannot be focused on one individual)...and massages the Sage's foot (removing the "third eye" the sage has there....and also the ego that consumed him). Thus Brighu comes to conclusion that Vishnu is the greatest and the most worthy of worship for mankind...(the story proceeds from there and very long one, involving the abode of Laxmi, the heart of the preserver, being dishnoured in this way and thus she takes birth on Earth to understand why such an Earth creature could do such...and Vishnu is one that goes to liberate her etc...)....but Vishnu in effect through rest of story shows the worth/relevance in the other trinity as well (given the curses were given by the sage's ego)....though of course many elements of the sage's curses remain esp in the kaliyug (in fact the whole story conclusion is to find Vishnu as repository of the saviour for mankind in the end of days - similar stories exist for Shiva and other gods too).

There are other stories that take Shiva more positive light/powerful than the other 2 (like the infinite pillar of light that Shiva creates....and challenges the other two to find the start and end of.....that Brahma neither Vishnu could find .....but Brahma lies he did...that he found there is a beginning (being the creator and all himself) but Vishnu accepts he didn't ....thus Shiva proclaims Vishnu to be his worthy and Brahma to have too much ego to be worshipped on Earth.

The only instance of Brahma being powerful/relevant over the other 2 (and its not really worship based) is the Brahmastra which is the most powerful cosmic missile (more than Trishul and Chakra) given it was created by the creator himself (and thus literally ends creation, i.e antimatter...whereas the others are just very high energy weapons that cannot uncreate like this...i.e they are still bound by the envelope creation sets on them).

Thus yes, the creator notion of the trinity worship wise is quite limited...rather it is something to be understood and the worship of the other two forces covers the creation side of things largely in practice.
 
Yes similar phenomenon overall. The concept has many links to Abrahamic religion also having connection to Zoroastrianism mythologies and also if you read epic of gilgamesh etc.



Yes, the actual creation can be subsumed by preserver and destroyer (depending on which one of those two one can argue is the ultimate reality). This stems from the process of sustenance and destruction (and the creation resulting only from that) being very much more observable and apparent. Whereas the process of initial creation (and its nature) of all this matter etc around us remains much much more mysterious (and will forever remain so given nature of infinity)...and thus not so relevant for a philosophical dialogue (which needs bounded set to some degree to create ordered systems).

It is encapsulated by the (albeit Vaishnavite) story of Sage Brighu (father of Shukra), when the other great sages ask who is the greatest of the trinity (Creator, Preserver or Destroyer)?...and they elected him (Brighu), the first among of them and greatest (and he had a "third eye" in his foot, a mark of great vestigial power) .... to be their emissary to ask the trinity themselves.

Brighu first goes to the abode of Brahma, but Brahma is so enamoured by Saraswati (his consort)...he fails to see Brighu has arrived....in return Brighu curses him (in his ego)...."O Creator, thou'st is irrelevant, you no longer care about thy creation....thou shall never be worshipped on Earth henceforth".

Brighu then goes to visit the abode of Shiva, but again Shiva is so enamoured by Parvati, he fails to see Brighu and Brighu again curses him (again in his ego) to be worshipped only in the form of the Lingam ("for thoust only seem to be concerned with such base activity").

Finally Brighu visits Vishnu...resting on the sea serpent on the cosmic ocean...with Laxmi massaging his feet (so clearly Vishnu at least is not focused on his consort) and again waits for Vishnu to acknowledge him....but Vishnu does not. In his anger at being rejected by the entire trinity, hot tempered Brighu runs to Vishnu and kicks him in the chest...hurling insults and anger....and Vishnu finally acknowledges and pacifies the Sage (explaining he is eternally focused on the entire universe, thus cannot be focused on one individual)...and massages the Sage's foot (removing the "third eye" the sage has there....and also the ego that consumed him). Thus Brighu comes to conclusion that Vishnu is the greatest and the most worthy of worship for mankind...(the story proceeds from there and very long one, involving the abode of Laxmi, the heart of the preserver, being dishnoured in this way and thus she takes birth on Earth to understand why such an Earth creature could do such...and Vishnu is one that goes to liberate her etc...)....but Vishnu in effect through rest of story shows the worth/relevance in the other trinity as well (given the curses were given by the sage's ego)....though of course many elements of the sage's curses remain esp in the kaliyug (in fact the whole story conclusion is to find Vishnu as repository of the saviour for mankind in the end of days - similar stories exist for Shiva and other gods too).

There are other stories that take Shiva more positive light/powerful than the other 2 (like the infinite pillar of light that Shiva creates....and challenges the other two to find the start and end of.....that Brahma neither Vishnu could find .....but Brahma lies he did...that he found there is a beginning (being the creator and all himself) but Vishnu accepts he didn't ....thus Shiva proclaims Vishnu to be his worthy and Brahma to have too much ego to be worshipped on Earth.

The only instance of Brahma being powerful/relevant over the other 2 (and its not really worship based) is the Brahmastra which is the most powerful cosmic missile (more than Trishul and Chakra) given it was created by the creator himself (and thus literally ends creation, i.e antimatter...whereas the others are just very high energy weapons that cannot uncreate like this...i.e they are still bound by the envelope creation sets on them).

Thus yes, the creator notion of the trinity worship wise is quite limited...rather it is something to be understood and the worship of the other two forces covers the creation side of things largely in practice.
@Nilgiri , thanks a lot for your detail answer of my first question.
 

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