Whatever

[Itachi]

57% approval rating for PM IK

That's it? If it's 57% for IK then what was it for the previous govt's lol?

 

[ghazi52]

Old Jamia Masjid, Built by Jam Tamachi a Famous ruler of Sindh from Samma dynasty, in 793 A.H, 1391 A.D

 

[Salik]

The question salik bai is not seeking evidence, proof and confirmation for a conversation ...... but existence of everyone involved in that conversation. Its the matter of belief and this particular question cannot be asked nor answered in isolation as a totally separate happening, without taking into account many other clear signs pointing to existence ...... as I already said .... People can believe whatever they want. By the way Slaik bai the answer to this question may already be in the same book where this conversation is mentioned, possible?

I am not tasked to prove it true........ I am asked to believe it.

Let me now ask you one question ...... based purely on what we Muslims believe and understand.

Can anyone denying Quran's words be a Muslim? and

Can anyone denying traditions be a Muslim? Before you answer this one, please keep in mind every sect has its own set of books and their interpretation ......... but none of the sect can openly and publicly claim their Quran being different from others'.

Talking about signs, traditions also have signs and very clear ones.

Let's sum up this discussion. We believe in Quran because someone trustworthy told us that "it is Quran". We believe in traditions because some trustworthy people collected them and told us that these are the Hadiths.

Believing or not believing in traditions is not matter of being Muslim or non Muslim. It shouldn't be matter of contention either.

There's another angle. If Islam couldn't produce trustworthy people then what's the solidness of its foundations?

 

[ghazi52]

Ancient City Lahore c.1910s.

 

[monitor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1106973553738407937

 

[I.R.A]

Let's sum up this discussion. We believe in Quran because someone trustworthy told us that "it is Quran". We believe in traditions because some trustworthy people collected them and told us that these are the Hadiths.

Salik bai ......... The messengers of ALLAH before given any divine message to convey their families and people, were shown the working of this universe ... how each and everything is in its place, following the inbuilt divine instructions. Please refrain from equating a petty nobody to someone who is a blessing and mercy for not only this world but all the worlds known or unknown to us. The role and responsibilities are not same ... Bukhari can never be compared with Muhammad Peace be upon him .......

Believing or not believing in traditions is not matter of being Muslim or non Muslim. It shouldn't be matter of contention either.

There is no contention if traditions are simply treated as stories told by men which have nothing to do with actual message of Islam. But the problem is 95% of these traditions are circulated and believed as Islam .... where as Islam remains within Quran only. Salik bai I think you have no clue about how and when enemies of Islam tried what.

There's another angle. If Islam couldn't produce trustworthy people then what's the solidness of its foundations?

Islam doesn't need people .......... if you wish you can read the clear verses about Muhammad Peace be upon him and him being immortal. You are under the influence of misinformation that has been fed to you via traditions that Quran was never in a book form ....... I will suggest Salik bai ........ do more research on that, Quran always existed in a book form from start.

 

[jamahir]

@padamchen , welcome back from your ban. What happened this time ??

 

[Salik]

Salik bai ......... The messengers of ALLAH before given any divine message to convey their families and people, were shown the working of this universe ... how each and everything is in its place, following the inbuilt divine instructions. Please refrain from equating a petty nobody to someone who is a blessing and mercy for not only this world but all the worlds known or unknown to us. The role and responsibilities are not same ... Bukhari can never be compared with Muhammad Peace be upon him .......



There is no contention if traditions are simply treated as stories told by men which have nothing to do with actual message of Islam. But the problem is 95% of these traditions are circulated and believed as Islam .... where as Islam remains within Quran only. Salik bai I think you have no clue about how and when enemies of Islam tried what.



Islam doesn't need people .......... if you wish you can read the clear verses about Muhammad Peace be upon him and him being immortal. You are under the influence of misinformation that has been fed to you via traditions that Quran was never in a book form ....... I will suggest Salik bai ........ do more research on that, Quran always existed in a book form from start.

"Believing or not believing in traditions isn't matter of being Muslim or non Muslim", so there is no question of comparing Bukhari with Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

If someone has a strong source of a tradition, one has no option but to believe it. For him it is matter of following the Prophet. So consequently for him it is Islam. Your contention in this matter is not really rightly placed.

Islam doesn't need people but Islam is meant for people. Their work in the religion and conveying the message to others cannot be neglected altogether.

 

[I.R.A]

If someone has a strong source of a tradition, one has no option but to believe it. For him it is matter of following the Prophet. So consequently for him it is Islam. Your contention in this matter is not really rightly placed.

I don't think you have missed that part when I said that no one from any of the sects has ever come forward disowning and scratching the real insulting ones. I don't say that all traditions are fake, I only say that a lot of them need to be thrown out of the books, because the real intent of those was and is to confuse and mislead the followers. Such traditions are totally in contradiction with Quran and have nothing to do with Islam, they were invented.

Islam doesn't need people but Islam is meant for people. Their work in the religion and conveying the message to others cannot be neglected altogether.

Everything we received needs to be revisited in light of Quran only. All that contradicts with Quran needs to be thrown out. We shouldn't be blindly following interpretations of people like Ibne Kathir etc. They were not more knowledgeable than us.

 

[Salik]

I don't think you have missed that part when I said that no one from any of the sects has ever come forward disowning and scratching the real insulting ones. I don't say that all traditions are fake, I only say that a lot of them need to be thrown out of the books, because the real intent of those was and is to confuse and mislead the followers. Such traditions are totally in contradiction with Quran and have nothing to do with Islam, they were invented.



Everything we received needs to be revisited in light of Quran only. All that contradicts with Quran needs to be thrown out. We shouldn't be blindly following interpretations of people like Ibne Kathir etc. They were not more knowledgeable than us.

What we think disgusting today might be a norm at that time. For example slavery was a norm at that time, both male, female and even child slavery. If a source is strong we will have to accept all the traditions reported by him. We cannot pick and choose depending on what we feel disgusting today.

Talking about contradictions between traditions and the holy Quran, critics even bring one verse of the holy Quran that apparently contradicts other verse of the holy Quran. So contradictions might happen between traditions and verses of different timeline. We are to find the correct message after reconciliation among them.

Respect for messenger is main thing and of utmost importance once his integrity is established.

 

[I.R.A]

What we think disgusting today might be a norm at that time. For example slavery was a norm at that time, both male, female and even child slavery.

Seriously! And you asked me why I have issues with traditions. These are lies these traditions have propagated.

Talking about contradictions between traditions and the holy Quran, critics even bring one verse of the holy Quran that apparently contradicts other verse of the holy Quran. So contradictions might happen between traditions and verses of different timeline. We are to find the correct message after reconciliation among them.

Salik please I would request to read and understand Quran without referring to these century old interpretations, the people who invented traditions are the ones who told you there are contradictions in Quran مَعاذ الله. They would go to any length just to safeguard their own invented lies.

 

[Salik]

Seriously! And you asked me why I have issues with traditions. These are lies these traditions have propagated.

Excuse me but slavery is mentioned in the Holy Quran.

 

[I.R.A]

Excuse me but slavery is mentioned in the Holy Quran.

And the order to spend your wealth and money to free those slaves is also mentioned in the same Quran. You are excused.

 

[BHarwana]

Over speeding ticket given to PAF on motorway.

 

[Salik]

And the order to spend your wealth and money to free those slaves is also mentioned in the same Quran.

Only if one has killed a believer by mistake. One must set free a believing slave and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain. Otherwise Quran talks about slaves in this way;

24:31 "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves." and

33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."


Here are some weird and disgusting things considered normal in the past:

Don't blame traditions for reporting these disgusting otherwise normal things.