What would you like to have in the JF-17

[uzair ramay]

3d vectoring thrust nozzle would b a great thing to add to thunder coz it will increase the manuverability of the aircraft.

 

[MastanKhan]

Lots of improvements are needed.
1)Increased range and payload
2)Incresed speed
3)Addition of atleast two more hard points
4)Increased service ceiling (coz no fighter in pak inventory is capable of going above 55000/60000 feet while india has mig 25 which can go way above that.As in the past india has conducted flyovers with mig25 and pak could not anything about it as pak also do not have high altitude air defence SAM`s).
Please tell me,Are these improvements not possible????????And iff possible then why not??????????

Hi,

Currently---india has no mig25's----. What you need is long range SA missiles---.

As for the JF 17---it is a 3rd tier aircraft for Pakistan----paf needed something bigger and more potent than the F16 in at least 2 sqdrn strengths---.

The saving grace for this aircraft would be an aesa radar, 2 + hours of LOITER TIME with full weapons load and at least 20% higher thrust.

Every aircraft has inherent design limitations and beyond a certain limit additional improvements are not cost effective. JF-17 is a relatively inexpensive aircraft, I would like to keep it that way so that PAF can afford to acquire 200 or about 2 Naval plus 10 Airforce version squadrons.

In my humble opinion, all that is needed on block –II air frame is a western avionics suite similar to the one with Grippen before AESA or Mirage 2000-9 and a more powerful engine with additional 10 -15% thrust. This should enable Thunder bursts of speed higher than Mach 1 at Sea level with max speed of Mach 2. I would also like it to have a more potent gun (27 mm or 30 mm) to give better ground attack capability.

For deep interdiction and air superiority missions, one would need F1-6 and/ or J-20.

Niaz,

Sorry I read your post later-----.

Well, the plane will "NEVER EVER BE " stealth no wonder how much lubricant (or composite) dream boys would put on the plane


A cow will be a cow

However what the JF17 Thunder could do is following

a) Get a better engine , the engine will naturally enhance performance and payload , more weapons could be carried
b) Alternatively if we can may be make our bombs and missiles which are lighter in weight that works as well
c) The Radar integration with SAAB or Chinese awacs could be enhanced
d) AESA integration would allow it to engage more "ENEMIES" as same time great feature achievable
e) Targeting POD could be enhanced with new POD for ground recon in future


But we can show make the cow , 200% even more lethal

Man,

What's wrong with your eye sight----you made a full blooded bull a cow---can't you see those massive family jewels hanging in front of the hind legs----

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

New western engine might be enough to give thunder a better range and payload capability.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Hi,
Currently---india has no mig25's----

Thanks for the information

 

[shanis]

in block 2 i think not to much changing except fuel refilling or some upgrade ...


now we must have in block 3 ... AESA upgraded engine, double engine and change in shape too.

like modern jets ( when anybody will see, sound will come out automatic from heart ... MA SHA ALLAH awesome beautiful monster fighter jet with all latest upgrade abilities )

 

[Syed Hussain]

Salam,
to all members, It's my first ever post on this forum.
I am not a professional but just an enthusiast with little knowledge, & I think what is seriously needed by JF-17 is some money to be put in to the project. Because even the block 2 is going to be with same RD-93 engine & pulse dopler radar. F-414 EPE would have been a perfect choice for engine & Chinese AESA radar was ready to be installed but both options required money which our policy makers weren't willing to pay.So this discussion in the first place is just a cave to dump our wishes in

 

[The SC]

Salam,
to all members, It's my first ever post on this forum.
I am not a professional but just an enthusiast with little knowledge, & I think what is seriously needed by JF-17 is some money to be put in to the project. Because even the block 2 is going to be with same RD-93 engine & pulse dopler radar. F-414 EPE would have been a perfect choice for engine & Chinese AESA radar was ready to be installed but both options required money which our policy makers weren't willing to pay.So this discussion in the first place is just a cave to dump our wishes in

It does not seem to be a money problem, it is more like waiting for something, like a Chinese engine, an AESA radar and/or many more tech to be readily available. PAF should know better if it has to wait six more month for something it wants in its JF-17 or not.
This is a project backed by China and Pakistan, and is vital to the latter, so money is already saved for it and budgeted in advance.
There are also other possibilities, like the purchase of more used F-16s for MLU or buying the UAE Mirage 2K-9s.
JF-17 is a reality already and not a wish!

 

[The SC]

I do not know if this engine can be fitted to the JF-17 or not:

Shenyang WS-10

... Development of the WS-10 started in 1987 by Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of the China Aviation Industry Corporation and was based upon the core of CFM International CFM56 engines imported from the United States in 1982

...The overall situation had steadily improved by the end of 2009, after which the WS-10A had reportedly proved mature enough to power the J-11B Block 02 aircraft. By late 2013, the improved WS-10A engine has reached a new level of maturity and performance, it powered the J-16 throughout its entire flight test program and now the J-16 is starting to reach IOC and begin small batch production. By early 2014, pictures of J-15S a twin seated variant of Shenyang J-15 naval fighter is spotting using WS-10A engine. This further proves WS-10A engine's maturity level has reached satisfactory level.

Derivatives of the WS-10 are under development, such as a high-bypass turbofan variant for propelling large transport aircraft and marine gas turbine variant for propelling ships. The high-bypass turbofan is called WS-20 which is derived from the WS-10A's core to power the Y-20 strategic transport currently under development by XAC.

A thrust-vectoring variant with higher thrust (132 kilonewtons (30,000 lbf)), called the WS-10B, is ready for combat aircraft installation, while an even further upgrade with higher thrust (155 kilonewtons (35,000 lbf)), designated the WS-10G, is also under testing.

According to the latest reports from Chinese air force the PLAAF, high ranking Chinese air force officers are well satisfied with WS-10A's performance and have ordered Sheng Yang Liming to increase WS-10A engine's production capacity.

Shenyang WS-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But this one is already available for both JF-17 and the J-31:

Guizhou WS-13

The WS-13 ,codename Taishan, is a turbofan engine designed and manufactured by Guizhou Aircraft Industry Corporation to power the Pakistan-China jointly developed JF-17 Thunder light-weight multi-role fighter, and in the near future the Shenyang J-31 fifth generation stealth fighter currently under development.
China began development of the Taishan in 2000 to replace the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, which had been selected in the 1990s to power the JF-17 light-weight fighter. It is designed to have a life span of 2,200 hours and an improved version, providing around 100 kN (22,450 lb) of thrust with afterburner, is under development.

The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009 The 18 March 2010 edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.
Officials at the Farnborough International Airshow in August 2010 stated that a JF-17 development aircraft is flying with a Chinese engine, which is most likely to be the WS-13.
In November 2012, Aviation Week reported that a JF-17 Thunder is flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine.

Guizhou WS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So why people are still talking about the Russian engines?

I would like to see a chinese engine with no strings attached and a better performance than a Russian one.

 

[The SC]

Multiple airborne missile launcher

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
The need in the art is addressed by the system and method of the present invention. In accordance with the present teachings, a bomb rack is adapted to carry a missile launcher.

In the illustrative embodiment, a BRU-33, 55 or 57 is adapted to carry two LAU-117 missile launchers. However, other missile launcher/missile combinations may be used as well. The missile launchers are secured to the bomb rack with a suspension unit of unique and novel design. This new multiple missile launcher configuration allows for releasable engagement of the missile launchers in the vertical plane. This allows for different missile packages to be deployed in the field.

Hence, the need in the art is addressed by the provision of a lightweight multiple missile launch assembly adapted to carry two LAU-117 launchers and all versions of the Maverick missiles (including AGM-65D, E, F, G or K) with improved aerodynamic properties and simplified missile loading procedures.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS
FIG. 1 is a side view showing the multiple missile launcher of the present invention loaded with LAU-117 missile launchers with missiles.

FIG. 2 is a top view showing the multiple missile launcher of the present invention loaded with LAU-117 missile launchers and missiles.

FIG. 3 is a front view showing the multiple missile launcher of the present invention loaded with LAU-117 missile launchers and missiles.

FIG. 4 is a perspective view of an illustrative embodiment of a multiple missile launcher implemented in accordance with the teachings of the present invention with LAU-117 missile launchers. The arrows illustrate vertical loading of the LAU-117 launcher onto the multiple missile launcher.

FIG. 5 is a perspective view of an illustrative embodiment of the multiple missile launcher implemented in accordance with the teachings of the present invention.

FIG. 6 is a disassembled perspective view of the illustrative embodiment of the of the multiple missile launcher implemented in accordance with the teachings of the present invention.

FIG. 7 is a side view of a suspension unit of the support assembly utilized in the illustrative embodiment of a multiple missile launcher implemented in accordance with the teachings of the present invention.

Patent US6655254 - Multiple airborne missile launcher - Google Patents

This is an example of a multiple airborne missile launcher than can be fitted to an airplane instead of adding more hard-points, Something like this will allow the JF-17 to carry much more missiles. In thi example it will carry 3 more missiles per hard-point. Let's say that Pakistan (and China) can come up with one that carries just 2 missiles, that will double the missile load capacity of the JF-17 and have it carry 10 missiles and a central pod or fuel tank, and will exceed the 9 hard points design that carries 1 missile per hard-point.

 

[niaz]

We must not forget that if we increase weapons loaded to the aircraft; a more powerful engine is needed just to compensate for the additional weight. Else its performance such as acceleration and manoeuvrability is seriously compromised. I endorse Hon Mastan Khans’ post. Don’t try to make Thunder into something it was never meant to be. We need it to be light, agile and affordable.

Increase in loiter time will be thru aerial refuelling probe, already incorporated in Block 2. Additionally, all that is required is a slightly more powerful engine and a better avionics suite.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We must not forget that if we increase weapons loaded to the aircraft; a more powerful engine is needed just to compensate for the additional weight. Else its performance such as acceleration and manoeuvrability is seriously compromised. I endorse Hon Mastan Khans’ post. Don’t try to make Thunder into something it was never meant to be. We need it to be light, agile and affordable.

Increase in loiter time will be thru aerial refuelling probe, already incorporated in Block 2. Additionally, all that is required is a slightly more powerful engine and a better avionics suite.

Affordability is directly related to Economy. From Pakistan's perspective anything above $30m is expensive. Eventually Block III/IV would not be cheaper any longer. With time and age better avionics/electronics/radar would be required that don't come cheap you want a better product you pay more for it.

 

[The SC]

Actually the US defines a 4.5 generation fighter, by an AESA radar, powerful data link, enhanced avionics and the ability to deploy current and future weapon systems.
So, if this is what makes a 4.5 generation aircraft, from an initial point of 4th generation aircrafts, than they are all being incorporated into the JF-17. I will add one thing which is supercruise.
I have also read in an old article that After the first 100 JF-17, meaning that after block 2, all the next JF-17 blocks (3,4and5) will be stealth aircrafts that Pakistan and China were working on since the beginning of the program.
Or will it be a co-production of the J-31, since I've seen in other articles that it will be operational in the next 2 to 3 years, which coincide with the end of production of the block 2; 2017.
The J-20 is also supposed to be available at that time, predicted by some Western experts in the military aviation field.
Any inputs and wish lists for the JF-7 block 2 and the stealth one afterwards, for stealth JF-17 or the J-31?

 

[544_delta]

truck art OH YEAH !

 

[MastanKhan]

I will add one thing which is supercruise.

I have also read in an old article that After the first 100 JF-17, meaning that after block 2, all the next JF-17 blocks (3,4and5) will be stealth aircrafts that Pakistan and China were working on since the beginning of the program.?

Sir,

You are a good poster----but when you start believing in your own BS and want others to do so because you said it---it is time to slow down.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Actually the US defines a 4.5 generation fighter, by an AESA radar, powerful data link, enhanced avionics and the ability to deploy current and future weapon systems.
So, if this is what makes a 4.5 generation aircraft, from an initial point of 4th generation aircrafts, than they are all being incorporated into the JF-17. I will add one thing which is supercruise.
I have also read in an old article that After the first 100 JF-17, meaning that after block 2, all the next JF-17 blocks (3,4and5) will be stealth aircrafts that Pakistan and China were working on since the beginning of the program.
Or will it be a co-production of the J-31, since I've seen in other articles that it will be operational in the next 2 to 3 years, which coincide with the end of production of the block 2; 2017.
The J-20 is also supposed to be available at that time, predicted by some Western experts in the military aviation field.
Any inputs and wish lists for the JF-7 block 2 and the stealth one afterwards, for stealth JF-17 or the J-31?

Pakistan-China is not working on any stealth together as such, some features were mentioned we heard of JF-17 with diamond shape nose cone but that is something which could be introduced in Block IV. About supercruise no information is posted but tell me something does supercruise has importance when super maneuverable fast BVR/WVR achieve lock on. Again ppl are believing that J-20/J-31 could end up soon in PAF I doubt project 310/J-31 would land sooner in Pakistan not in 12 Years atleast, we are busy with tasks to replace atleast 180-200 older Types Aircraft in service.