What will happen to Pakistan as a fallout of unstable Afghanistan

[Secur]

i agree with you ... but you know i think that as soon as Allied forces withdraw from Afghanistan , there will be peace in pakistan , cause Pakistan can use their Contacts in Afghan talibans to force the TTP for dialogs , i am not sure about this , but as far as i know this could and will happen, but of course not openly

What will you want to talk about with Pakistani Taliban ? Seriously , I do not understand the assumption of finding a common ground with the terrorists somehow , mate .

 

[Icarus]

You know, if you take a sample size of a 100 talk-show programs on the Afghan Issue, on Terrorism etc. happening in Pakistan, I could bet you a 3 course meal, none of them would mention 1-6 but most of them would blame Pakistan, the Pakistani Establishment etc. for everything from their increased weight to playing table tennis with OBL for a few years & everything in between !

From other side - There is a deafening silence; I sincerely hope that the ISPR gets to be a bit more pro-active & employs a proper PR department that, doesn't just regurgitate statements, but goes into an Anti-Propaganda Mode to give their point of view along with the facts & the figures to shut others up !

Talk shows are outlets for public fears and concerns, they hardly contain any matter of significance and are more or less the echoes of the public's own fears. Anchors and Politicians seek to hit a common cord with the public and thereby increase their popularity at the expense of the military, the government and even the accuracy of history.

The problem with the ISPR is, that when and if they try to speak, political and civil forces cry foul. They argue that PR is not the PA's problem and they should leave that to the government. In pursuit of the military's new found policy of non-confrontationalism, the ISPR proceeds then to mellow down.

 

[rockstar08]

What will you want to talk about with Pakistani Taliban ? Seriously , I do not understand the assumption of finding a common ground with the terrorists somehow , mate .

Yaar in the End we have to talk with them sooner or later , or else media , judges , NGO's and mullah party make chaos in this country and start barking on Army ... and even Americans and Nato are failed to win this war , so what our army will do ?? we have more black sheep's in our country

 

[Armstrong]

Talk shows are outlets for public fears and concerns, they hardly contain any matter of significance and are more or less the echoes of the public's own fears. Anchors and Politicians seek to hit a common cord with the public and thereby increase their popularity at the expense of the military, the government and even the accuracy of history.

And yet they do not only influence but at times dramatically change Public Perception; take India's example - Saurab Kalia - that poor chap - is eulogized & incessantly brought up again & again & again till after a few dozen talk shows, a dozen interviews of his Dad, more than few dozen articles written on him with provocative punchlines & after a return to the 'Tortured Fauji by the Evil, Vicious, Inhuman Pakistanis' theme, at every opportune moment & doing this again & again with not only the deceased Fauji but quite a few other issues as well, they - the Indians - not only influence & shape domestic opinion but also sell their version of the story, because its been so oft repeated & by so many people, as the Gospel Truth, to the International Community to the detriment of Pakistan whereas we sit back & say with a very straight face 'We didn't do anything' as if thats going to suffice !

Pataa nahin hum kaun saa satuuu peii kar soiii hoii hain because this has been happening to us for the past 65 years & we still can't appreciate the power of perception management till now even our own people are thinking 'maybe they - the others - were correct maybe our boys in East Pakistan were indeed a bunch of rapists & murderer prowling the streets of Dhaka with a machete in their hands & their trousers brought down' !

The problem with the ISPR is, that when and if they try to speak, political and civil forces cry foul. They argue that PR is not the PA's problem and they should leave that to the government. In pursuit of the military's new found policy of non-confrontationalism, the ISPR proceeds then to mellow down.

I think the ISPR should really think about this....really...really think about this !

Everyone knows about Saurab Kalia.....whereas who knows about Sipahi Maqbool Hussain - Not even most Pakistanis do & a beat up Drama Serial isn't going to change things - Learn this Art for godsake !

 

[Icarus]

And yet they do not only influence but at times dramatically change Public Perception; take India's example - Saurab Kalia - that poor chap - is eulogized & incessantly brought up again & again & again till after a few dozen talk shows, a dozen interviews of his Dad, more than few dozen articles written on him with provocative punchlines & after a return to the 'Tortured Fauji by the Evil, Vicious, Inhuman Pakistanis' theme, at every opportune moment & doing this again & again with not only the deceased Fauji but quite a few other issues as well, they - the Indians - not only influence & shape domestic opinion but also sell their version of the story, because its been so oft repeated & by so many people, as the Gospel Truth, to the International Community to the detriment of Pakistan whereas we sit back & say with a very straight face 'We didn't do anything' as if thats going to suffice !

Pataa nahin hum kaun saa satuuu peii kar soiii hoii hain because this has been happening to us for the past 65 years & we still can't appreciate the power of perception management till now even our own people are thinking 'maybe they - the others - were correct maybe our boys in East Pakistan were indeed a bunch of rapists & murderer prowling the streets of Dhaka with a machete in their hands & their trousers brought down' !

Pakistan has always found itself with a rich supply of soldiers to die for it, people to sacrifice for it, youngsters to try to improve it but at the same time we have always found ourselves with a class of people who would at the given opportune moment, and forgive my blatant use of the words, sell their mothers for a minute or two of fame. The fact remains that military bashing gets ratings in Pakistan and there is also a machismo where people want to be seen as the aggressors, it fits their self created image of the "Conquerer Ummah". They would much rather associate themselves with an act of aggression that they did not commit rather than try to be seen as anything less than merciless warriors. So even though soldiers might contend that Surab Kalia was found dead, or killed trying to escape, our people would like to hear how his plane (sarcasm, I know he wasn't on a plane before an Indian corrects me) was brought down by a single soldier and then he could not take their beating. The same however, breeds a subconscious hatred and image of the Army as an overkill organization.
Finally, there is the matter of payrolls and vested interests. That's the most simple explanation.

 

[Armstrong]

Pakistan has always found itself with a rich supply of soldiers to die for it, people to sacrifice for it, youngsters to try to improve it but at the same time we have always found ourselves with a class of people who would at the given opportune moment, and forgive my blatant use of the words, sell their mothers for a minute or two of fame. The fact remains that military bashing gets ratings in Pakistan and there is also a machismo where people want to be seen as the aggressors, it fits their self created image of the "Conquerer Ummah". They would much rather associate themselves with an act of aggression that they did not commit rather than try to be seen as anything less than merciless warriors. So even though soldiers might contend that Surab Kalia was found dead, or killed trying to escape, our people would like to hear how his plane was brought down by a single soldier and then he could not take their beating. The same however, breeds a subconscious hatred and image of the Army as an overkill organization.
Finally, there is the matter of payrolls and vested interests. That's the most simple explanation.

I hear you but what is the Army doing about it ? Are they going to sit back with their hands firmly clasped over each other at ease in their certainty of being 'right' or are they going to take the 'initiative' in their hands & stop such venomous serpents creating disinformation in the country to the detriment of the Armed Forces ?

Nothing can shame such people & reduce their credibility to naught in the eyes of the gullible masses then evidence backed talk that is sold to the public the way a good salesman sells a product he believes in !

I hope....I sincerely hope that the Army honors those soldiers & our martyrs by providing their side of the story through the force of 'evidence' & 'eloquence' so that the despondency & the disinformation that has seeped this society & even amongst those who can read or write, who would never get the Army's side of the story but would instead find Books written by self-styled military strategists, journalists & what giving their side of the story.

Wake Up....for godsake Wake Up - Learn that Public Perception Management can accrue us more benefits than a Nuke ever could & if we can't manage it & the enemy continues to do that better & better - Not even the hand of Providence would be able to save us !

 

[Secur]

Yaar in the End we have to talk with them sooner or later , or else media , judges , NGO's and mullah party make chaos in this country and start barking on Army ... and even Americans and Nato are failed to win this war , so what our army will do ?? we have more black sheep's in our country

You might as well hand over the country to the extremists quietly and wait for them to kill you , seeing the already defeated tone of your posts on " What will we do " , as simple as that . @Icarus But aren't they barking already when we are even talking with them or trying to ? Aren't they causing chaos already ? What does it change ? It is clear that every mishap/disaster always will be blamed on army , no matter what happens . The precise reason why the people still find the military guilty for " Swat ceasefire agreement breaking up " and " negotiations fail at Red Mosque " . Kill some of them and make an example for the rest , I know I am oversimplifying things . But well ...

 

[Icarus]

I hear you but what is the Army doing about it ? Are they going to sit back with their hands firmly clasped over each other at ease in their certainty of being 'right' or are they going to take the 'initiative' in their hands & stop such venomous serpents creating disinformation in the country to the detriment of the Armed Forces ?

Nothing can shame such people & reduce their credibility to naught in the eyes of the gullible masses then evidence backed talk that is sold to the public the way a good salesman sells a product he believes in !

I hope....I sincerely hope that the Army honors those soldiers & our martyrs by providing their side of the story through the force of 'evidence' & 'eloquence' so that the despondency & the disinformation that has seeped this society & even amongst those who can read or write, who would never get the Army's side of the story but would instead find Books written by self-styled military strategists, journalists & what giving their side of the story.

Wake Up....for godsake Wake Up - Learn that Public Perception Management can accrue us more benefits than a Nuke ever could & if we can't manage it & the enemy continues to do that better & better - Not even the hand of Providence would be able to save us !

To be very honest with you, this time, the cavalry isn't coming, the Pakistan Army has tried to correct the course of this nation enough times in the past. Each time, the Army's top brass has been jeered at, spat at, called names and had to deal with the disdain of a nation that itself had asked for their intervention. So this time, the Army thought "Screw this". The Army will watch as people try to make sense of their own world and learn to live through their own trial and error.
Put as simply as possible, the Army thought:

"Aap ko aap ki democracy bari mubarak ho, app eid manain, hum chaltay hain apnay ghar".

The nation will now have to fend for itself, the Army is NOT coming back into politics. The public will have to learn the use of their vote through trial and error, the Army will perform the duties delegated to it, nothing less and nothing more.

 

[Secur]

The nation will now have to fend for itself, the Army is NOT coming back into politics. The public will have to learn the use of their vote through trial and error, the Army will perform the duties delegated to it, nothing less and nothing more.

I say it often , mate .

Time isn't a luxury which we have much of , as a nation .

 

[Icarus]

You might as well hand over the country to the extremists quietly and wait for them to kill you , seeing the already defeated tone of your posts on " What will we do " , as simple as that . @Icarus But aren't they barking already when we are even talking with them or trying to ? Aren't they causing chaos already ? What does it change ? It is clear that every mishap/disaster always will be blamed on army , no matter what happens . The precise reason why the people still find the military guilty for " Swat ceasefire agreement breaking up " and " negotiations fail at Red Mosque " . Kill some of them and make an example for the rest , I know I am oversimplifying things . But well ...

The Army has taken a non-confrontational approach. Allow people to slug it out between themselves, the Army will just keep on working undeterred.

 

[rockstar08]

You might as well hand over the country to the extremists quietly and wait for them to kill you , seeing the already defeated tone of your posts on " What will we do " , as simple as that . @Icarus But aren't they barking already when we are even talking with them or trying to ? Aren't they causing chaos already ? What does it change ? It is clear that every mishap/disaster always will be blamed on army , no matter what happens . The precise reason why the people still find the military guilty for " Swat ceasefire agreement breaking up " and " negotiations fail at Red Mosque " . Kill some of them and make an example for the rest , I know I am oversimplifying things . But well ...

brother i appreciate your concerns , but i did not loose hope , i know that our army can take some bunch of mullah easily if Govt and peoples support them , and for them to be defeat its hard , when army try to start big Operation they runs to Afghanistan and than US drones and Nato heli's never detect them and rest runs towards our cities and hide in masjid and madarsaas ... and lots of political parties are their sympathizers so they will hide with pride ....few hide in places like liyari , banaras , kati pahari , and aghan basti , safora goth etc ... if you ever been to karachi you must known these places
our nation is divided on the matter of taliban , unless we unite and take a strange stand against them , you can not expect victory

 

[Icarus]

I say it often , mate .

Time isn't a luxury which we have much of , as a nation .

We've continued to defy odds since our inception, we shall continue to do so. But, if and when time's up, its up and there's no two ways to it.

 

[Secur]

The Army has taken a non-confrontational approach. Allow people to slug it out between themselves, the Army will just keep on working undeterred.

Please , its useless , this approach and the situation resulting from it . They know the civilians cant deal with it and most of the civilians know that too , so what good is the non confrontation thing ? . The enemy within is far more dangerous than the one at the borders .

We've continued to defy odds since our inception, we shall continue to do so. But, if and when time's up, its up and there's no two ways to it.

I do not believe much in miracles , mate . This threat is of entirely different nature and threatens to do away the all of Pakistan's federation and all that we stand for . Are we waiting for angels to descend down this time ?

 

[Icarus]

The nation lacks identity and cohesion, it can only be protected from itself for so long. When parents let their children out into the real world, they understand the risk involved but must take it regardless for the greater good of the child. Pakistan is at a similar crossroads. The people have remained safe from the realities of life because the Army was protecting them but it was time to let them out of the nest to learn to live on their own.
If the Army continues to nurse the nation, it will tear itself apart just to see what life without military nursing is like.

 

[Armstrong]

To be very honest with you, this time, the cavalry isn't coming, the Pakistan Army has tried to correct the course of this nation enough times in the past. Each time, the Army's top brass has been jeered at, spat at, called names and had to deal with the disdain of a nation that itself had asked for their intervention. So this time, the Army thought "Screw this". The Army will watch as people try to make sense of their own world and learn to live through their own trial and error.
Put as simply as possible, the Army thought:

"Aap ko aap ki democracy bari mubarak ho, app eid manain, hum chaltay hain apnay ghar".

The nation will now have to fend for itself, the Army is NOT coming back into politics. The public will have to learn the use of their vote through trial and error, the Army will perform the duties delegated to it, nothing less and nothing more.

Yaraa I'm not asking for the Army to step into Politics - that hasn't been good for either the Army or the Nation !

I'm simply asking for the Army to have a more proactive ISPR that has a dedicated setup that writes books, has its own newspaper that is competing with some of the best out there, has a Social Media presence that is very....very active & doesn't just rely on tweets about 'What did XYZ General did or did not say or did or did not visit', enters into Joint Ventures with the Industry to produce Dramas & Films for both domestic & foreign audiences, has representatives that regularly grace these Talk Shows, these Seminars, these Lectures etc. where the Army is talked about etc...etc....etc - So that the Army's view point is there & is conveyed in such a manner so that no one can say 'thats just hearsay' or 'theres no evidence' for that !

If you start doing that now; maybe in 5-10 years time we would've progressed on the Learning Curve so farther ahead that the whenever someone casts aspersions against the Army - historically or currently - we can strike that down by putting convincing evidence before the people for all to see !

For example if there is a seminar about the atrocities committed by the Army in East Pakistan - if the Army had made a concrete case about that they could ask to be invited to that seminar or conduct a seminar of their own to sift fact from fiction & expose the exaggerations, the omissions, the half-truths & the outright lies that are peddled about & so that people who listen can really go back & think 'Haaannn......the ISPR guy made a point & a strong one at that' & his subconscious thinks 'After the evidence put forth before me & the questions raised....I don't think I'm gonna believe the next time someone talks about 3 million dead Bengalis or 300,000 Bengali women raped' !

Use your imagination - Kitnaa faidaaa ho saktaa haiii ?