What will happen to Pakistan as a fallout of unstable Afghanistan

[atatwolf]

We are always there for Pakistani brothers

 

[Armstrong]

@Secur @Icarus - I just ate a Double Decker Cheese Burger with Fries & 1.5 Liters of Coke, perhaps an hour ago & I'm still hungry !

I swear it this Butt inside me is going to be the death of me due to high cholesterol or something else !

 

[karan.1970]

Indeed, Iran however has maintained considerable distance from Afghanistan which I expect it to maintain especially with a government that it sees to be an American placement in the region. With sanctions also in place, Iran is in no need to honour Afghanistan's access to their ports and may indeed use the same as a bargaining chip when approaching the foreign powers which may be forced to think on the matter because they would want to see the Afghan government survive but review wont be necessary if they are already using Pakistani ports.

True, but with reducing tensions between Iran and the US and US making all the right reconciliatory noises, the monopoly Pakistan now enjoys has a danger of being eroded, specially when Afghanistan will start dealing with Iran post reduction of US presence and influence in the area

 

[Icarus]

Yaraa I'm not asking for the Army to step into Politics - that hasn't been good for either the Army or the Nation !

I'm simply asking for the Army to have a more proactive ISPR that has a dedicated setup that writes books, has its own newspaper that is competing with some of the best out there, has a Social Media presence that is very....very active & doesn't just rely on tweets about 'What did XYZ General did or did not say or did or did not visit', enters into Joint Ventures with the Industry to produce Dramas & Films for both domestic & foreign audiences, has representatives that regularly grace these Talk Shows, these Seminars, these Lectures etc. where the Army is talked about etc...etc....etc - So that the Army's view point is there & is conveyed in such a manner so that no one can say 'thats just hearsay' or 'theres no evidence' for that !

If you start doing that now; maybe in 5-10 years time we would've progressed on the Learning Curve so farther ahead that the whenever someone casts aspersions against the Army - historically or currently - we can strike that down by putting convincing evidence before the people for all to see !

For example if there is a seminar about the atrocities committed by the Army in East Pakistan - if the Army had made a concrete case about that they could ask to be invited to that seminar or conduct a seminar of their own to sift fact from fiction & expose the exaggerations, the omissions, the half-truths & the outright lies that are peddled about & so that people who listen can really go back & think 'Haaannn......the ISPR guy made a point & a strong one at that' & his subconscious thinks 'After the evidence put forth before me & the questions raised....I don't think I'm gonna believe the next time someone talks about 3 million dead Bengalis or 300,000 Bengali women raped' !

Use your imagination - Kitnaa faidaaa ho saktaa haiii ?

Tried ans failed, during the 80s and 90s the Services Book Publishers released many books to the public libraries that portrayed the Pakistani take on matters but as time progressed, these events were dismissed as "Propaganda" attempts. Very simply, the people don't want to hear what the Army has to say, the easy availability to information means that they can opt for neutral and not so neutral sources at their discretion. I myself thought that the ISPR should be more proactive in their approach but men who have seen many more decades than me are convinced that this approach will take a suitable turn in the long run.
Even now, the ISI and ISPR use a network of shadow writers and journalists to promote their point of view but that cant match the volume of information coming from abroad. As Ahmed Shuja Pasha once said in front of me when a journalist asked him why the ISI won't pay their side of their story onto the screens, he said that they try but the volume of money coming from other stakeholders is so great that the ISPR and ISI simply cannot compete.

@Secur @Icarus - I just ate a Double Decker Cheese Burger with Fries & 1.5 Liters of Coke, perhaps an hour ago & I'm still hungry !

I swear it this Butt inside me is going to be the death of me due to high cholesterol or something else !

I had a Fauji Jumbo Zinger. Value, Quality and a filling to boot!

True, but with reducing tensions between Iran and the US and US making all the right reconciliatory noises, the monopoly Pakistan now enjoys has a danger of being eroded, specially when Afghanistan will start dealing with Iran post reduction of US presence and influence in the area

Iranians are vary of Afghans and will try to refrain from engaging in too much interaction with them. As far as the reconciliation vibes go, Iran is playing the ages old art of diplomacy by stalling. They are close to the end and they can feel it, they don't need much time. They could be a nuclear power in less than 5 years.

 

[Armstrong]

Tried ans failed, during the 80s and 90s the Services Book Publishers released many books to the public libraries that portrayed the Pakistani take on matters but as time progressed, these events were dismissed as "Propaganda" attempts. Very simply, the people don't want to hear what the Army has to say, the easy availability to information means that they can opt for neutral and not so neutral sources at their discretion. I myself thought that the ISPR should be more proactive in their approach but men who have seen many more decades than me are convinced that this approach will take a suitable turn in the long run.
Even now, the ISI and ISPR use a network of shadow writers and journalists to promote their point of view but that cant match the volume of information coming from abroad. As Ahmed Shuja Pasha once said in front of me when a journalist asked him why the ISI won't pay their side of their story onto the screens, he said that they try but the volume of money coming from other stakeholders is so great that the ISPR and ISI simply cannot compete.

Aaahhh well what do I know - I'm just an aspiring Finance Professional !

 

[Secur]

brother i appreciate your concerns , but i did not loose hope , i know that our army can take some bunch of mullah easily if Govt and peoples support them , and for them to be defeat its hard , when army try to start big Operation they runs to Afghanistan and than US drones and Nato heli's never detect them and rest runs towards our cities and hide in masjid and madarsaas ... and lots of political parties are their sympathizers so they will hide with pride ....few hide in places like liyari , banaras , kati pahari , and aghan basti , safora goth etc ... if you ever been to karachi you must known these places
our nation is divided on the matter of taliban , unless we unite and take a strange stand against them , you can not expect victory

You know , one doesn't always have to wait for consent , sometimes its wiser to act on one's own accord and deal with the reservations/concerns of others afterwards . I know what you are talking about and what are you concerned of , but mate , this indecisiveness and fear of the thing isn't going to help for long . Act fast is the message , the military had gained considerable success in the tribal areas , Swat and other areas . Hadn't it been for the radicalized population and the " democratic Govt " acting on the wishes of the public , it wouldn't have risen to such extent and level as today . Sometimes , its good to take action without seeking permission , for the greater good .

P.S I live in Karachi , mate

 

[Icarus]

True, but with reducing tensions between Iran and the US and US making all the right reconciliatory noises, the monopoly Pakistan now enjoys has a danger of being eroded, specially when Afghanistan will start dealing with Iran post reduction of US presence and influence in the area

Initially there was a reconciliation vibe but my channels are increasingly filled with chatters that the US is apparently unconvinced that Iran is serious in limiting its proliferation of weapons and honestly speaking, so am I. If I were their guy, I would never give up on the hunt when the bison is subdued and all that remains is to strike the final blow.
As per my sources, our monopoly is safe for the next half decade. Even if the sanctions are lifted, the Iranians are vary of the Afghans and will try to maintain their distance.

Aaahhh well what do I know - I'm just an aspiring Finance Professional !

Its good to question and better to ask. Never kill a question on the pretext of "What do I know".

 

[Armstrong]

I live in Karachi , mate

You don't live anywhere near the M.A Jinnah road do you ?

Iranians are vary of Afghans and will try to refrain from engaging in too much interaction with them. As far as the reconciliation vibes go, Iran is playing the ages old art of diplomacy by stalling. They are close to the end and they can feel it, they don't need much time. They could be a nuclear power in less than 5 years.

Waisee did we really help the Iranians as is often asserted in most circles & sometimes by people in authority ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

What the Pak Army is fighting against is the TTP or Pakistani Taliban and NOT the Afghan Taliban.

So now an authentic saffron Indian wants to talk like Zaid Hamid's $hit philosophy about good Talibarbarians and Baddies.,

hahahahah

Saffornites talking like Lal topi wala

hahahahah

 

[Secur]

You don't live anywhere near the M.A Jinnah road do you ?

Not even close , my friend . I am in the North of the city .

 

[Armstrong]

Not even close , my friend . I am in the North of the city .

Good because it was dirty as hell; I remember staying there a few years ago at my Uncle's & even 3-4 weeks after Eid had passed the place had the entrails & freaky eyed heads of every herbivore you can think of lying about in puddles of blood mixed with motor oil, grease, water & even pissss !

 

[SinaG]

Pakistan needs to secure her borders and bring in proper rule in the FATA areas. I don't know why you guys just allow some tribes to rule themselves with no state wide responsibilities. If you can manage this, then the fallout from Afghanistan will be seriously reduced on Pakistan.

 

[Icarus]

Waisee did we really help the Iranians as is often asserted in most circles & sometimes by people in authority ?

I can't say for sure, but in my assessment our help to them can only be advisory in nature. Our nuclear program began to weaponize in the 70s after Smiling Budhha and reached operational maturity in the mid 80s. That's when we were in any position to offer anyone any help but back then, we were enamoured with the US and that didn't sit well with Iran. Naturally, our relations were not particularly cosy, seeing as we had been keen supporters of the Shah as well.
In the 90s, relations began to improve but were there was still a degree of unease and that's why too much information cannot have been exchanged.
In the 2000s, we were again playing buddy with the US so relations became slightly tense.
Then in early 2005, the grand expose happened and since then, we are at a great deal of scrutiny and cant exchange info about nuclear proliferation.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....

Waisee did we really help the Iranians as is often asserted in most circles & sometimes by people in authority ?

If you say "We" as in "pakistan gov". then the answer is NO!

However

We had few rogue elements like AQ Khan namak Haram (yeah yea he is a Hero of many Pakistani Zeros) and a couple of smugglers who guided Iran to contact the international suppliers for the acquisition of centrifuges and raw U.

This list of suppliers is highly guarded secret that Pakistan got a hold during the years when Munir mian was the chairman of IAEA or some similar agency.

peace

 

[rockstar08]

You know , one doesn't always have to wait for consent , sometimes its wiser to act on one's own accord and deal with the reservations/concerns of others afterwards . I know what you are talking about and what are you concerned of , but mate , this indecisiveness and fear of the thing isn't going to help for long . Act fast is the message , the military had gained considerable success in the tribal areas , Swat and other areas . Hadn't it been for the radicalized population and the " democratic Govt " acting on the wishes of the public , it wouldn't have risen to such extent and level as today . Sometimes , its good to take action without seeking permission , for the greater good .

P.S I live in Karachi , mate

lo phr tu hum ek thaali chatay batay hai
still yaar i have no hope with govt and many many peoples who support political parties like JI and JUI and other religious parties , desperately need a national leader, i had hope with IK even i give vote to him but he failed me