What went wrong to India ?

[YeBeWarned]

I learn some new things about India from the historical prospectus from the video below , that makes me wonder what and where did the Indians went wrong ? Once a very cultured and Advance Civilization with so many Great mind within them how can it turn into the India we are seeing today ??

@Kaniska @padamchen @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Indus Pakistan @Awan68 @ranjeet @Roybot Please tag more members whom you think will have good and positive things to share, Please Avoid trolling and don't let it turn into religions Vs battle ..

 

[Jlaw]

After the Brits left india became the India as we know it.

 

[Roybot]

I learn some new things about India from the historical prospectus from the video below , that makes me wonder what and where did the Indians went wrong ? Once a very cultured and Advance Civilization with so many Great mind within them how can it turn into the India we are seeing today ??

@Kaniska @padamchen @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Indus Pakistan @Awan68 @ranjeet @Roybot Please tag more members whom you think will have good and positive things to share, Please Avoid trolling and don't let it turn into religions Vs battle ..

Isn't it obvious? Foreign invasions.

Look at the state of Afghanistan after 40- 50 years of foreign invasion and civil war, look at Iraq, look at Libya, look at Yemen. Now imagine North India and Pakistan facing foreign invasion and being ruled by foreign powers for almost 1000 years.

 

[seesonic]

Isn't it obvious? Foreign invasions.

Look at the state of Afghanistan after 40- 50 years of foreign invasion and civil war, look at Iraq, look at Libya, look at Yemen. Now imagine North India and Pakistan facing foreign invasion and being ruled by foreign powers for almost 1000 years.

Textbook respond

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I learn some new things about India from the historical prospectus from the video below , that makes me wonder what and where did the Indians went wrong ? Once a very cultured and Advance Civilization with so many Great mind within them how can it turn into the India we are seeing today ??

@Kaniska @padamchen @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Indus Pakistan @Awan68 @ranjeet @Roybot Please tag more members whom you think will have good and positive things to share, Please Avoid trolling and don't let it turn into religions Vs battle ..

What went wrong?
Simple brutal racist trollish crude answer would be -
Caste,Islam and the White man.

(I will expand more one each of these if you want to)

 

[YeBeWarned]

What went wrong?
Simple brutal racist trollish crude answer would be -
Caste,Islam and the White man.

(I will expand more one each of these if you want to)

sure .. but the other way to see it that Islam , White man could be see as positive influence as well over the Indian civilization ? if Islam didn't came in subcontinent maybe the Hindu's will have a empire of their own like a Ottomans..

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

sure .. but the other way to see it that Islam , White man could be see as positive influence as well over the Indian civilization ? if Islam didn't came in subcontinent maybe the Hindu's will have a empire of their own like a Ottomans..

Let me explain.
The primary internal problem was caste.As it became more rigid it destroyed the creative potential of a large part of indian society for thousands of years and caused suffering and loss of self esteem,internalized inferiority in lower castes .It divided indian society ,and weakened its manpower base in warfare with external societies(the turk afghans with their tribal organization on the other hand mobilized their entire male population) as only the limited kshatriya castes along with mercenaries fought.No chance of a 'people's war',no popular conscience.Hereditary caste was and still remains the biggest barrier along with poverty and lack of education to successful indian nationbuilding.

As for Islam,i'm not talking of the religion as such.The initial invasion wave wiped out the centres of learning.Nalanda,vikramashila -the great universities burned down and residents massacred.The loss of life was huge over the centuries.The states that were formed were essentially 'conquest' states -the ethos and court culture of the states was alien to the majority of populace.The thing with islam and all abrahamic religions is their path is the only path which is directly contradictory with indian cultural tradition.2nd problem was most of these sultanates that were formed spent money/patronage on building of monuments/mosques/madrassas/upkeep of religious figures.The royal patronage that indian indigineous philosophers/scientists enjoyed under the 'hindu' kings was gone to a large extent with a few exceptions.There is a reason all the great indian scientists/philosophers you hear of are either of ancient or early medieval India - the 'hindu' period.You will find no aryabhatta,brahmagupta,sushruta,kanad during the whole muslim period of 1200-1700.Only some poets at best.They also wiped out the ashrama system of education with the loss of patronage.Essentially the traditional knowledge transferance system was destroyed.Purda system was also introduced in the period.
Islamic empires did a few good things for the subcontinent.The turks brought with them water wheel technology from central asia and persia as well as architectural techniques of their own,being centralized empires and because the vast countryside was dominated by hindu zamindars they built a lot of towns and cities with forts which facilitated communications and trade.Indian subcontinent being connected with rest of islamic world led to greater trade also and increased circulation of coin currency.Last good thing is that monotheism and no-caste system features of islamic practice put pressure on hindu orthodoxy,reduced brahamanical power and led to reform movements like bhakti under chaitanya,kabir,nanak and in the south nayanars and alvars.

The british hurt India in several ways.They consciously exploited and widened cultural,caste,communal division and tried to plant a cultural narrative that would have internalized inferiority of the indian people .But primarily the damage was economic.They in a planned manner destroyed the manufacturing base of India and turned it into a raw material supplier,looted trillions in their 150 yr rule.The farmers were exploited to a never before degree with frequent famines.The british courts gave protection to moneylenders who now exploited farmers unopposed,before they were kept in check by the village panchayats.The primary damage to india in british period was economic.Total loss of manufacturing base,total loss in skilled labour and technical personnel.The british didn't do all the economic damage by design,they were also doing scientific discoveries on their own which rendered earlier modes of manufacture obsolete.It was a combination of malevolent design and genuine progress of their own making that hurt us.
On the good side they created institutions that are still the backbone of the country -civil services,united army,legal instutions,colleges and universities.they brought political unity.British cultural pressure led to weakening of caste system,women's rights mobvement and social reforms.The railway network was also their achievement.(though their aim was to integrate indian market and movement of british army to put down rebellions)They introduced new technologies.

 

[hussain0216]

Let me explain.
The primary internal problem was caste.As it became more rigid it destroyed the creative potential of a large part of indian society for thousands of years and caused suffering and loss of self esteem,internalized inferiority in lower castes .It divided indian society ,and weakened its manpower base in warfare with external societies(the turk afghans with their tribal organization on the other hand mobilized their entire male population) as only the limited kshatriya castes along with mercenaries fought.No chance of a 'people's war',no popular conscience.Hereditary caste was and still remains the biggest barrier along with poverty and lack of education to successful indian nationbuilding.

As for Islam,i'm not talking of the religion as such.The initial invasion wave wiped out the centres of learning.Nalanda,vikramashila -the great universities burned down and residents massacred.The loss of life was huge over the centuries.The states that were formed were essentially 'conquest' states -the ethos and court culture of the states was alien to the majority of populace.The thing with islam and all abrahamic religions is their path is the only path which is directly contradictory with indian cultural tradition.2nd problem was most of these sultanates that were formed spent money/patronage on building of monuments/mosques/madrassas/upkeep of religious figures.The royal patronage that indian indigineous philosophers/scientists enjoyed under the 'hindu' kings was gone to a large extent with a few exceptions.There is a reason all the great indian scientists/philosophers you hear of are either of ancient or early medieval India - the 'hindu' period.You will find no aryabhatta,brahmagupta,sushruta,kanad during the whole muslim period of 1200-1700.Only some poets at best.They also wiped out the ashrama system of education with the loss of patronage.Essentially the traditional knowledge transferance system was destroyed.Purda system was also introduced in the period.
Islamic empires did a few good things for the subcontinent.The turks brought with them water wheel technology from central asia and persia as well as architectural techniques of their own,being centralized empires and because the vast countryside was dominated by hindu zamindars they built a lot of towns and cities with forts which facilitated communications and trade.Indian subcontinent being connected with rest of islamic world led to greater trade also and increased circulation of coin currency.Last good thing is that monotheism and no-caste system features of islamic practice put pressure on hindu orthodoxy,reduced brahamanical power and led to reform movements like bhakti under chaitanya,kabir,nanak and in the south nayanars and alvars.

The british hurt India in several ways.They consciously exploited and widened cultural,caste,communal division and tried to plant a cultural narrative that would have internalized inferiority of the indian people .But primarily the damage was economic.They in a planned manner destroyed the manufacturing base of India and turned it into a raw material supplier,looted trillions in their 150 yr rule.The farmers were exploited to a never before degree with frequent famines.The british courts gave protection to moneylenders who now exploited farmers unopposed,before they were kept in check by the village panchayats.The primary damage to india in british period was economic.Total loss of manufacturing base,total loss in skilled labour and technical personnel.The british didn't do all the economic damage by design,they were also doing scientific discoveries on their own which rendered earlier modes of manufacture obsolete.It was a combination of malevolent design and genuine progress of their own making that hurt us.
On the good side they created institutions that are still the backbone of the country -civil services,united army,legal instutions,colleges and universities.they brought political unity.British cultural pressure led to weakening of caste system,women's rights mobvement and social reforms.The railway network was also their achievement.(though their aim was to integrate indian market and movement of british army to put down rebellions)They introduced new technologies.

Good post

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Delhi Sultanate, 712-1526
The Mughal Period, 1526-1858
British 1857-1947
USSR 1947-1989
USA 1989-2004
Russia 2004-2014
USA 2014 - till date

India has lost culture and freedom for more than 1300 years now.

Let me explain.
The primary internal problem was caste.As it became more rigid it destroyed the creative potential of a large part of indian society for thousands of years and caused suffering and loss of self esteem,internalized inferiority in lower castes .It divided indian society ,and weakened its manpower base in warfare with external societies(the turk afghans with their tribal organization on the other hand mobilized their entire male population) as only the limited kshatriya castes along with mercenaries fought.No chance of a 'people's war',no popular conscience.Hereditary caste was and still remains the biggest barrier along with poverty and lack of education to successful indian nationbuilding.

As for Islam,i'm not talking of the religion as such.The initial invasion wave wiped out the centres of learning.Nalanda,vikramashila -the great universities burned down and residents massacred.The loss of life was huge over the centuries.The states that were formed were essentially 'conquest' states -the ethos and court culture of the states was alien to the majority of populace.The thing with islam and all abrahamic religions is their path is the only path which is directly contradictory with indian cultural tradition.2nd problem was most of these sultanates that were formed spent money/patronage on building of monuments/mosques/madrassas/upkeep of religious figures.The royal patronage that indian indigineous philosophers/scientists enjoyed under the 'hindu' kings was gone to a large extent with a few exceptions.There is a reason all the great indian scientists/philosophers you hear of are either of ancient or early medieval India - the 'hindu' period.You will find no aryabhatta,brahmagupta,sushruta,kanad during the whole muslim period of 1200-1700.Only some poets at best.They also wiped out the ashrama system of education with the loss of patronage.Essentially the traditional knowledge transferance system was destroyed.Purda system was also introduced in the period.
Islamic empires did a few good things for the subcontinent.The turks brought with them water wheel technology from central asia and persia as well as architectural techniques of their own,being centralized empires and because the vast countryside was dominated by hindu zamindars they built a lot of towns and cities with forts which facilitated communications and trade.Indian subcontinent being connected with rest of islamic world led to greater trade also and increased circulation of coin currency.Last good thing is that monotheism and no-caste system features of islamic practice put pressure on hindu orthodoxy,reduced brahamanical power and led to reform movements like bhakti under chaitanya,kabir,nanak and in the south nayanars and alvars.

The british hurt India in several ways.They consciously exploited and widened cultural,caste,communal division and tried to plant a cultural narrative that would have internalized inferiority of the indian people .But primarily the damage was economic.They in a planned manner destroyed the manufacturing base of India and turned it into a raw material supplier,looted trillions in their 150 yr rule.The farmers were exploited to a never before degree with frequent famines.The british courts gave protection to moneylenders who now exploited farmers unopposed,before they were kept in check by the village panchayats.The primary damage to india in british period was economic.Total loss of manufacturing base,total loss in skilled labour and technical personnel.The british didn't do all the economic damage by design,they were also doing scientific discoveries on their own which rendered earlier modes of manufacture obsolete.It was a combination of malevolent design and genuine progress of their own making that hurt us.
On the good side they created institutions that are still the backbone of the country -civil services,united army,legal instutions,colleges and universities.they brought political unity.British cultural pressure led to weakening of caste system,women's rights mobvement and social reforms.The railway network was also their achievement.(though their aim was to integrate indian market and movement of british army to put down rebellions)They introduced new technologies.

Caste is not the problem. Greed is the real problem.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Delhi Sultanate, 712-1526
The Mughal Period, 1526-1858
British 1857-1947
USSR 1947-1989
USA 1989-2004
Russia 2004-2014
USA 2014 - till date

India has lost culture and freedom for more than 1300 years now.



Caste is not the problem. Greed is the real problem.

Delhi sultanate formed 1206.
Mughal period 1526-1707
British period 1805-1947

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Delhi sultanate formed 1206.

Yes. I casually included these too into that period.

711–713 Conquest of Sind and Multan by Muhammad ibn Qasim.
998–1030 Reign of Mahmud of Ghazni. Raids on India.
1020 Lahore becomes part of Ghaznavid empire.
1151 Rise of Ghuri empire.
1186 Capture of Lahore by Muhammad Ghuri.
1192 Defeat of Prithvi Raj by Muhammad Ghuri at Tarain.

Mughal period 1526-1707
British period 1805-1947

It depends..

British East India company got Surat in a deal with Jahangir in 1612 while British did not directly take control of British India until the revolt of 1857 against the East India company.


1526 First Battle of Panipat: Mughals defeat the Lodis.
1526–1530 Reign of Babur
1530 Accession of Humayun.
1540–1555 The Sur dynasty.
1556 Second Battle of Panipat: Humayun regains power.
1556–1605 Reign of Akbar.
1605–1627 Reign of Jahangir.
1627–1658 Reign of Shah Jahan.
c.1646–1680 Rise of the Marathas under Shivaji.
1658–1707 Reign of Aurangzeb.
1713–1719 Reign of Farrukhsiyar.
1719–1748 Reign of Muhammad Shah.
1720–1740 Maratha expansion under Baji Rao I.
1739 Sack of Delhi by Nadir Shah.
c.1720–1750 Establishment of Hyderabad, Oudh, and Bengal as independent states.
1757 Battle of Plassey: Clive defeats Nawab of Bengal. Ahmad Shah Abdali sacks Delhi.
1759–1806 Reign of Shah Alam II.
1761 Third Battle of Panipat: Afghans and Mughals defeat Marathas.
1765 Diwani of Bengal granted to East India Company.
1774–1785 Warren Hastings, Governor-General.
1775–1782 First Anglo-Maratha war.
1798–1805 Lord Wellesley, Governor-General.
1803 Delhi taken by the British.
1806–1837 Reign of Akbar Shah II.
1837–1858 Reign of Bahadur Shah II.
1843 British take Sind.
1849 British annex Punjab.
1856 Annexation of Oudh.
1857–1858 Mutiny and revolt.
1858 British India placed under the Crown. Bahadur Shah deposed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I learn some new things about India from the historical prospectus from the video below , that makes me wonder what and where did the Indians went wrong ? Once a very cultured and Advance Civilization with so many Great mind within them how can it turn into the India we are seeing today ??

@Kaniska @padamchen @Joe Shearer @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Indus Pakistan @Awan68 @ranjeet @Roybot Please tag more members whom you think will have good and positive things to share, Please Avoid trolling and don't let it turn into religions Vs battle ..

Too broad a phrasing to be answered, although @AUSTERLITZ gave us a very intelligent reply. IMHO it isn't complete, and its fit to the situation depends entirely on the period under consideration.

When do you think it was a very cultured and advanced civilisation?

 

[jhungary]

Textbook respond

I am not the one that said "Stop Derailing the Thread" when I responded to your question.

Read this

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/huaw...hy-system-and-4000-mah-battery.550629/page-12

To this day, I still have not hear the response from that. So….

Well, No Response? Chicken go Chook LOL.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Too broad a phrasing to be answered, although @AUSTERLITZ gave us a very intelligent reply. IMHO it isn't complete, and its fit to the situation depends entirely on the period under consideration.

When do you think it was a very cultured and advanced civilisation?

my knowledge in this regard is limited to few books and some not so brief Documentaries , so i don't i am qualified to give a worthy opinion here, but to some extent i do agree with @AUSTERLITZ , and i will respond to his reply soon when i am free from my Niece and nephew ..

I think Invasion of India serve as both beneficial and disastrous .. Beneficial in a sense that India absorb the multiple religions , culture and way of life into its Society and create balance between the various religions like Hinduism , Jainism and Buddism . I personally would not blame Islam but the Invaders who happen to be Muslims , Part of me believe that if it wasn't the Muslim than some other religion or power house that would take hold in India and than there were Internal conflicts ( without going into details ) .

Indian Key to its Advance Civilization was somehow related to its Superior Religion of that time , along with a very distinctive linguistics ..I will try to elaborate further soon ..

 

[Joe Shearer]

my knowledge in this regard is limited to few books and some not so brief Documentaries , so i don't i am qualified to give a worthy opinion here, but to some extent i do agree with @AUSTERLITZ , and i will respond to his reply soon when i am free from my Niece and nephew ..

I think Invasion of India serve as both beneficial and disastrous .. Beneficial in a sense that India absorb the multiple religions , culture and way of life into its Society and create balance between the various religions like Hinduism , Jainism and Buddism . I personally would not blame Islam but the Invaders who happen to be Muslims , Part of me believe that if it wasn't the Muslim than some other religion or power house that would take hold in India and than there were Internal conflicts ( without going into details ) .

Indian Key to its Advance Civilization was somehow related to its Superior Religion of that time , along with a very distinctive linguistics ..I will try to elaborate further soon ..

It will be worth the wait.

If I am there to read it, that is.....