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What students are being taught about the separation of East Pakistan

I donno wat channels you have seen, for me, based on my exposure to PTV and Indian govt channels, I stand by what I wrote earlier.

You are free to have an opinion! I am just telling it how I see it.

Sir, Do you have any idea of the bold that you wrote above ?

Very much so. The conversation is in context of distribution of Indian channels *outside* India. So, I can tell you that while Indian private channels seem to be carried by a lot of satellites and I get them on cable here in Lahore, open sats via receiver and even my microwave receiver, I don't get Doordarshan through any of these sources. This has nothing to do with Pakistan, and everything to do with Doordarshan distribution (i.e. which sats carry it and so on).

Here's a funny thing... 15 years ago, in some parts of Lahore, we used to get a very weak analog Doordarshan signal... it was very grainy and you could never get colour, but you could kinda sorta see it. Even that has disappeared. I don't know if the analog transmission network has been neglected/cut back or whether the jammers the Indian Government (yes, Indian, not Pakistani!!!) has installed to block cell towers around the border area are interfering with these signals.
 
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I wonder if part of the reason many Indians believe Pakistanis do not get to read/hear criticism of Pakistani policies etc. is because they believe that Pakistan would (should?) fall apart and Pakistanis would stop believing in it as a nation-State.

To the contrary, despite a more vocal and pervasive media (from across the border and around the world as well) highlighting past and present policy flaws and taking on all manner of controversial topics for discussion, from all possible sides, the sense of nationhood (according to polls conducted by Western organizations) is stronger than ever.

Pakistani channels are not allowed but that does not stop Indian channels from inviting Pakistani political experts to their shows.

I regularly watch Times Now which invites Pakistani experts to present their opinion quite often.
 
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You are free to have an opinion! I am just telling it how I see it.



Very much so. The conversation is in context of distribution of Indian channels *outside* India. So, I can tell you that while Indian private channels seem to be carried by a lot of satellites and I get them on cable here in Lahore, open sats via receiver and even my microwave receiver, I don't get Doordarshan through any of these sources. This has nothing to do with Pakistan, and everything to do with Doordarshan distribution (i.e. which sats carry it and so on).

Here's a funny thing... 15 years ago, in some parts of Lahore, we used to get a very weak analog Doordarshan signal... it was very grainy and you could never get colour, but you could kinda sorta see it. Even that has disappeared. I don't know if the analog transmission network has been neglected/cut back or whether the jammers the Indian Government (yes, Indian, not Pakistani!!!) has installed to block cell towers around the border area are interfering with these signals.

I have absolutely on idea on the part in bold.

But Wiki says this (I donno how to verify is its true or not, also I do not have complete list of countries but the my focus was on the outreach).

International broadcasting

DD India is broadcast internationally via satellite. It is available in 146 countries worldwide, however information on receiving this channel in other countries is not easily available. In the UK, DD-India was available through the Eurobird Satellite on the Sky system on Channel 833 (the logo is shown as Rayat TV). The timing and programming of DD-India international is different from that of India. Transmissions via Sky Digital (UK & Ireland) ceased in June 2008 and those via DirecTV in the United States in July 2008.
 
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Pakistani channels are not allowed but that does not stop Indian channels from inviting Pakistani political experts to their shows.

I regularly watch Times Now which invites Pakistani experts to present their opinion quite often.

Right, but I wasn't questioning the participation of Pakistani guests on your shows, but rather the possibility that lack of awareness in Indian about the extent of diverse and controversial discourse, on various platforms, lends to the opinion that Pakistan only exists because of 'hate India'.

We read countless times, from Indians, that 'Kashmir and anti-India rhetoric' is used to distract Pakistanis by the politicians and military, so that they can continue to maintain power and build personal assets.

Perhaps awareness of the openness of discourse in Pakistani society on a wide variety of issues would help remove perceptions such as those, that Pakistan exists solely because of 'hate India' or 'not India'?
 
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Your links do not prove that it doesn't happen anywhere else.

This particular comment of yours is a dual edged sword..
Shows you are just here for cynicism..and nothing else.
Shall I bring up the Rape of Kashmiri women?.. will you then cite that it was an isolated incident?..and does not happen everywhere else?
Or should I claim that the killings of bengali intellectuals was an isolated incident.. did not happen everywhere else?

The purpose of such forums is debate.. and counter debate..
Point taking... low level jabs.. is for your local tea house.

There are other similar forums.. where you may dish out continuous cynics at us..and where we may boast "one pakistani is as good as a hundred Indians".
But somewhere in these forums.. there are still more from all three countries.. that despite all of their differences...would not tolerate nonsensical accusations against the other..
Let us not forget..as I still believe..
come a foreign country.. if I had the choice to buy a bag of chips from a foreign vendor.. and one that is from the sub-continent.. I would choose the latter.
Tomorrow.. I know for certain.. when I go to America..
and am without a roof..against the wall.. I dont have to beg in the streets. I have an Indian friend who can give me a roof and a job.


Back to the topic at hand.. and specifically at Markus.
The mindset has been cultured.. take an example of quite a few of the 60's generation..
Many of those hold Ayub khan as their hero.. and lay the blame on his son..Gohar Ayub for his downfall.. and wont accept anything else.
Can the same not be said of people in India??
If.. for eg tomorrow.. hypothetically.. concrete proof came out against say Indra Gandhi having an affair(hypothetical!!!!!!)..
Would not those that lived during her rule vehemently defend her??
especially those who prospered?

For years the Americans fed a whole heap of anti-communism to their population....eventually..when the wall fell...many new truth's unfolded..and many untruth's did.

How much of what is said about North Korea is true??.. how much isnt?

Imagine.. if a person who wished to know about Kazakhstan....was shown "Borat".. what would be his impression?

There are people in Pakistan..and elsewhere in the Muslim world.. who preach America as a godless nation..full of sex, Injustice and atheists.
Yet..if one was to visit America...you would find all the above..
but that is not all you would find..
you would find welcome gifts when you move into a neighborhood.
you would find people going to Church..there are more practicing Christians in America as a ratio than in the UK.

The same goes for you and me..
The greatest example ..would be bollywood..afterall...it reflects a lot about what is the message given about us?
Did anybody check "veer zaara".. god knows what Pakistan was being talked about there.. never seen anything like it.

A good family friend of ours visited us from India(muslim)..
He was all about how good India is and extremism here etc etc.
But he was eventually forced to admit.. after touring Karachi..Lahore..and the nothern Areas.. that what he thought was all wrong.
He was surprised to enjoy Dosa's here.. and pav bhaji..

The only way to end misconceptions.. is for people to meet.. and then see for themselves what they are taught..and what is there..

back to the topic..
As I mentioned before... had the people of West and East Pakistan had a lot more interaction.. things might have been very different.
Yet.. it was physically impossible...and impractical..we had India between us.. and nothing else to culturally hold us together.
 
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About the FAKE accusations of mass rape and killings on Pakistan Army, now the truth is coming out slowly.

BLOOD AND TEARS

The book ‘Blood and Tears’ by Qutubuddin Aziz is a must read for all Pakistanis. It provides a hundred and seventy eye-witness accounts of the atrocities committed by Indian-supported Mukti Bahini on the people of East-Pakistan and the non-Bengali West Pakistanis in what was then East Pakistan.

This book can be read online here or download as PDF from this link (right click, save as)

EXCERPTS FROM THE BOOK ‘BLOOD & TEARS’


Typical of the open-air, human abattoirs operated by the Awami League-led rebels in East Pakistan in 1971 is this photograph of multiple-executions done by a Mukti-Bahini killer squad in Dacca Race Course. The pro-Pakistan Bengali and non-Bengali victims were tortured before being slain

Looking at the tragic events of March 1971 in retrospect, I must confess that even I, although my press service commanded a sizeable network of district correspondents in the interior of East Pakistan, was not fully aware of the scale, ferocity and dimension of the province-wide massacre of the non-Banglis.

I must stress, with all the force and sincerity at my command, that this bock is not intended to be a racist indictment of the Bengalis as a nation. In writing and publishing this book, I am not motivated by any revanchist obsession or a wish to condemn my erstwhile Bengali compatriots as a nation. Just as it is stupid to condemn the great German people for the sins of the Nazis, it would be foolish to blame the Bengali people as a whole for the dark deeds of the Awami League militants and their accomplices.
A scene of Mukti Bahini mass murder of Biharis in Dacca on December 18, 1971. A rebel soldier lifts his boot to strike a bleeding bayoneted boy who showed signs of life. Dead bodies of other slain non-Bengalis lie in the foreground.

I have incorporated in this book the acts of heroism and courage of those brave and patriotic Bengalis who sheltered and protected, at great peril to themselves, their terror-stricken non-Bengali friends and neighbours. On the basis of the heaps of eye-witness accounts, which I have carefully read, sifted and analysed, I do make bold to say that the vast majority of Bengalis disapproved of and was not a party to the barbaric atrocities inflicted on the hapless non-Bengalis by the Awami League’s terror machine and the Frankensteins and vampires it unloosed. This silent majority, it seemed, was awed, immobilised and neutralised by the terrifying power, weapons and ruthlessness of a misguided minority hell-bent on accomplishing the secession of East Pakistan.

The sheaves of eye-witness accounts, documented in this book, prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the massacre of West Pakistanis, Biharis and other non-Bengalis in East Pakistan had begun long before the Pakistan Army took punitive action against the rebels late in the night of March 25, 1971. It is also crystal clear that the Awami League’s terror machine was the initiator and executor of the genocide against the non-Bengalis which exterminated at least half a million of them in less than two months of horror and trauma. Many witnesses have opined that the federal Government acted a bit too late against the insurgents. The initial success of the federal military action is proved by the fact that in barely 30 days, the Pakistan Army, with a combat strength of 38,717 officers and men in East Pakistan, had squelched the Awami League’s March-April, 1971, rebellion all over the province.

The hundreds of eye-witnesses from towns and cities of East Pakistan, whose testimonies are documented in this book, are unanimous in reporting that the slaughter of West Pakistanis, Biharis, and other non-Bangalis and of some pro-Pakistan Bengalis had begun in the early days of the murderous month of March 1971.

Looking at the tragic events of March 1971 in retrospect, I must confess that even I, although my press service commanded a sizeable network of district correspondents in the interior of East Pakistan, was not fully aware of the scale, ferocity and dimension of the province-wide massacre of the non-Banglis.

I must stress, with all the force and sincerity at my command, that this bock is not intended to be a racist indictment of the Bengalis as a nation. In writing and publishing this book, I am not motivated by any revanchist obsession or a wish to condemn my erstwhile Bengali compatriots as a nation. Just as it is stupid to condemn the great German people for the sins of the Nazis, it would be foolish to blame the Bengali people as a whole for the dark deeds of the Awami League militants and their accomplices.

I have incorporated in this book the acts of heroism and courage of those brave and patriotic Bengalis who sheltered and protected, at great peril to themselves, their terror-stricken non-Bengali friends and neighbours. On the basis of the heaps of eye-witness accounts, which I have carefully read, sifted and analysed, I do make bold to say that the vast majority of Bengalis disapproved of and was not a party to the barbaric atrocities inflicted on the hapless non-Bengalis by the Awami League’s terror machine and the Frankensteins and vampires it unloosed. This silent majority, it seemed, was awed, immobilised and neutralised by the terrifying power, weapons and ruthlessness of a misguided minority hell-bent on accomplishing the secession of East Pakistan.

The 170 eye-witnesses, whose testimonies or interviews are contained in this book in abridged form have been chosen from a universe of more than 5,000 repatriated non-Bengali families. I had identified, after some considerable research, 55 towns and cities in East Pakistan where the abridgement of the non-Bengali population in March and early April 1971 was conspicuously heavy. The collection and compilation of these eye-witness accounts was started in January 1974 and completed in twelve weeks. A team of four reporters, commissioned for interviewing the witnesses from all these 55 towns and cities of East Pakistan, worked with intense devotion to secure their testimony. Many of the interviews were prolonged because the Witnesses broke down in a flurry of sobs and tears as they related the agonising stories of their wrecked lives. I had issued in February 1974 an appeal in the newspapers for such eye-witness accounts, and I am grateful to the many hundreds of witnesses who promptly responded to my call.

“I am the lone survivor of a group of ten Pathans who were employed as Security Guards by the Delta Construction Company in the Mohakhali locality in Dacca; all the others were slaughtered by the Bengali rebels in the night of March 25, 1971”, said 40-year-old Bacha Khan.

“I heard the screams of an Urdu-speaking girl who was being ravished by her Bengali captors but I was so scared that I did not have the courage to emerge from hiding” said a 24-year-old Zahid Abdi, who was employed in a trading firm in Dacca. He escaped the slaughter of the non-Bengalis in the crowded New Market locality of Dacca on March 23, 1971 and was sheltered by a God-fearing Bengali in his shop. The killers raped their non-Bengali teenage victim at the back of the shop and later on slayed her.

“My only daughter has been insane since she was forced by her savage tormentors to watch the brutal murder of her husband”, said Mukhtar Ahmed Khan, 43, while giving an account of his suffering during the Ides of March 1971 in Dacca….“In the third week of March 1971, a gang of armed Bengali rebels raided house of my son-in-law and overpowered him. He was a courageous Youngman and he resisted the attackers. My daughter also resisted the attackers but they were far too many and they were well armed. They tied up my son-in-law and my daughter with ropes and they forced her to watch as they slit the throat of her husband and ripped his stomach open in the style of butchers. She fainted and lost consciousness. Since that dreadful day she has been mentally ill.”


As the victim did not die in a single bayonet strike, another Mukti-Bahini killer plunged his bayonet in to the writhing Bihari’s chest. Dead bodies of Bihari and Bengali victims lie strewn over the execution ground as Mukti-Bahini killers and their accomplices watch the butchery with sadist pleasure.

Shamim Akhtar, 28, whose husband was employed as a clerk in the Railway office in Dacca, lived in a small house in the Mirpur locality there.

She described her tragedy in these words:

“On December 17, 1971, the Mukti Bahini cut off the water supply to our homes. We used to get water from a nearby pond; it was polluted and had a bad odour. I was nine months pregnant. On December 23, 1971, I gave birth to a baby girl. No midwife was available and my husband helped me at child birth. Late at night, a gang of armed Bengalis raided our house, grabbed my husband and trucked him away. I begged them in the name of God to spare him as I could not even walk and my children were too small. The killers were heartless and I learnt that they murdered my husband. After five days, they returned and ordered me and my children to vacate the house as they claimed that it was now their property.”


A Bihari victim grabbed by Mukti-Bahini killers, begging for mercy.

Zaibunnissa Haq, 30, whose journalist husband, Izhar-ul-Haque, worked as a columnist in the Daily Watan in Dacca, gave this account of her travail in 1971:

“….On December 21, a posse of Mukti Bahini soldiers and some thugs rode into our locality with blazing guns and ordered us to leave our house as, according to them, no Bihari could own a house in Bangladesh. For two days, we lived on bare earth in an open space and we had nothing to eat. Subsequently, we were taken to a Relief Camp by the Red Cross.”

In Pubail and Tangibari, the Awami League militants and their rebel confederates murdered dozens of affluent Biharis. Shops owned by the Biharis were favourite target of attack.

“Four armed thugs dragged two captive non-Bengali teenage girls into an empty bus and violated their chastity before gunning them to death”, said Gulzar Hussain, 38, who witnessed the massacre of 22 non-Bengali men, women and children on March 21, 1971, close to a bus stand in Narayangang. Repatriated to Karachi in November 1973, Gulzar Hussain reported: “….On March 21, our Dacca-bound bus was stopped on the way, soon after it left the heart of the city. I was seated in the front portion of the bus and I saw that the killer gang had guns, scythes and daggers. The gunmen raised ‘Joi Bangla’ and anti-Pakistan slogans. The bus driver obeyed their signal to stop and the thugs motioned to the passengers to get down. A jingo barked out the order that Bengalis and non-Bengalis should fall into separate lines. As I spoke Bengali with a perfect Dacca accent and could easily pass for a Bengali, I joined the Bengali group of passengers. The killer gang asked us to utter a few sentences in Bengali which we did. I passed the test and our tormentors instructed the Bengalis to scatter. The thugs then gunned all the male non-Bengalis. It was a horrible scene. Four of the gunmen took for their loot two young non-Bengali women and raped them inside the empty bus. After they had ravished the girls, the killers shot them and half a dozen other women and children.”

She described her tragedy in these words:

“On December 17, 1971, the Mukti Bahini cut off the water supply to our homes. We used to get water from a nearby pond; it was polluted and had a bad odour. I was nine months pregnant. On December 23, 1971, I gave birth to a baby girl. No midwife was available and my husband helped me at child birth. Late at night, a gang of armed Bengalis raided our house, grabbed my husband and trucked him away. I begged them in the name of God to spare him as I could not even walk and my children were too small. The killers were heartless and I learnt that they murdered my husband. After five days, they returned and ordered me and my children to vacate the house as they claimed that it was now their property.”

Zaibunnissa Haq, 30, whose journalist husband, Izhar-ul-Haque, worked as a columnist in the Daily Watan in Dacca, gave this account of her travail in 1971: “….On December 21, a posse of Mukti Bahini soldiers and some thugs rode into our locality with blazing guns and ordered us to leave our house as, according to them, no Bihari could own a house in Bangladesh. For two days, we lived on bare earth in an open space and we had nothing to eat. Subsequently, we were taken to a Relief Camp by the Red Cross.”


The uniformed killer puffing the cigarette to singe the eyes of the terrified prey. Eye gouging and burning the skin of victims was a favourite torture method of the rebels.

Nasima Khatoon, 25, lived in a rented house in the Pancho Boti locality in Narayanganj. Her husband, Mohammad Qamrul Hasan, was employed in a Vegetable Oil manufacturing factory. Repatriated to Karachi in January 1974, along with her 4-year-old orphaned daughter, from a Red Cross Camp in Dacca, Nasima gave this hair-raising account of her travail in 1971:

“At gun point, our captors made us leave our house and marched us to an open square where more than 500 non –Bengali old men, women and children were detained. Some 50 Bengali gunmen led us through swampy ground towards a deserted school building. On the way, the 3-year-old child of a hapless captive woman died in her arms. She asked her captors to allow her to dig a small grave and bury the child. The tough man in the lead snorted a sharp ‘NO’, snatched the body of the dead child from her wailing mother and tossed it into the river”

The Awami League’s rebellion of March 1971 took the heaviest toll of non-Bengali lives in the populous port city of Chittagong. Although the Government of Pakistan’s White Paper of August 1971 on the East Pakistan crisis estimated the non-Bengali death toll in Chittagong and its neighbouring townships during the Awami League’s insurrection to be a little under 15,000, the testimony of hundreds of eye-witnesses interviewed for this book gives the impression that more than 50,000 non-Bengalis perished in the March 1971 carnage. Thousands of dead bodies were flung into the Karnaphuli river and the Bay of Bengal.

Savage killings also took place in the Halishahar, Kalurghat and Pahartali localities where the Bengali rebel soldiers poured petrol and kerosine oil around entire blocks, igniting them with flame-throwers and petrol-soaked jute balls, then mowed down the non-Bengali innocents trying to escape the cordons of fire. In the wanton slaughter in the last week of March and early April, 1971, some 40,000 non-Bengalis perished in Chittagong and its neighbourhood. The exact death toll, which could possibly be much more will never be known because of the practice of burning dead bodies or dumping them in the river and the sea.
 
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the media (in much of the world, not just South/Central Asia) was weak at the time --or at least not as prominent in playing a role in ''shaping'' history

people may still be divided about the history...but what everyone can agree on was that while W. Pakistan's political leadership is guilty of negligence and some arm-twisting, the indians supported a terrorist group which had much blood on its hands.

In many peoples' minds, including my own --Bengalis were culturally different and always opted for autonomy or independence at some point. Geographically and culturally they were distant --and you can't negate these realities.


there are scores of bookstores in Pakistan --even the Oxford University Press ones. Scores of material are available, even with dissenting views some may perceive as anti-Pakistan. We don't have draconian laws which call for them to be shut down; which is more than i can say about certain other countries nearby where authors (even high profile ones) are harassed and face sedition charges




nexxxxxxxt
 
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We Pakistanis, Banglalis and Indians get along well with one another in Britain and WE ARE THE FUTURE!!!! so all you haters and hate spreaders can suck it cos we aim to bring peace once again in South Asia, just how it should have been all these years ago.
 
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OK... i just realize their is no one from Pakistan on this forum.
I'm from Pakistan and i confirm that i didn't read any story about separation of Bangladesh.
All i studied was Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, English literature, Urdu literature, English grammar, Urdu grammar, very thin Pak studies and very thin Islamiyat.
Pak studies only spoke about pre-partition history and speeches.

This is a fact in it self that Pakistan govt. gave jobs to hindus and this angered Bengalis.
 
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We were taught history of Pakistan written by Nigel Kelly...and it is an offcial textbook across Pakistan..he is a western author...and wrote clearly about discriminatroy behaviour of west pakistanis towards east pakistanis....i dont know where do u guys find these wierd articles from....probably written by that psycho dude paracha from DAWN news....lol....tell these writers to come to me..i still ve that book..even showed it to my indian friends here in Canada.....its simply amazing
 
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You assume to much and in your arrogance you underestimate us. That in the end will be your own undoing.

Sadly - and humbly - one has to point out that you won't be around to see it.
 
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Incorrect version as per the Indians POV..now they want to rewrite out history as well in the light of glorifying their mother land..everything is fatual to the core..Bhutto already suspected Mujeeb motives and did not entrust him with the government. If such has happened today neither East nor West Pakistan would be present on the map.

America wanted the separation of east Pakistan to bully Pakistan into anti-soviet alliance and use its borders as well influence to create guerrilla gangs in Afghanistan and arm them as well. Soviet union fueled by its obsession of supremacy, openly sided with India hence paving the way for Pakistan to be in nakedly aggressive alliance against Soviet Union.

And it is a naked truth as well that RAW infiltrated very well in East Pakistan and creation of mukhti bahni terrorist under soviet guidance and planners. Due to large Hindu population it was easy to find recruits. After the separation of east a large number of hindus settled in India fearing retaliation by local Bengali population.

Dawn on the foot steps of JEW TV is being kept well fed on a diet of indian curry. Aman ke asha is paying off for the indians.
 
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Some of the views expressed in this thread by a handful of Indian members just highlights how little it is they actually know about the country and our internal dynamics, it also highlights their innate prejudices towards Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Apparently the proof of the National Syllabus i provided from Aga Khan University, Central Board and Cambridge Board is not evidence enough to disprove their NONSENSE...

MODS i urge you to please take action against such nonsense spreaders and flamers. Debate is one thing but questioning our knowledge about our own education system?

I have been educated in Pakistan Upto Degree Level and i know the education system very, very well... Far better the IRobot and i find in HIGHLY offensive they way these members carry themselves spreading misinformed nonsense about Pakistan.

Should we really tolerate it?
 
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We were taught history of Pakistan written by Nigel Kelly...and it is an offcial textbook across Pakistan..he is a western author...and wrote clearly about discriminatroy behaviour of west pakistanis towards east pakistanis....i dont know where do u guys find these wierd articles from....probably written by that psycho dude paracha from DAWN news....lol....tell these writers to come to me..i still ve that book..even showed it to my indian friends here in Canada.....its simply amazing

taught in a levels dude not in karachi board, btw, i found kelly book humiliatialing, pakistani should be the one to teach history to pakistanis and not a guy from europe..
 
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